paxtonch

I'm just about to start laying track and was wondering what folks use to glue track down. I know Ken Patterson recommends DAP Kwik Seal Plus but that seems to be hard to get here in Canada. What else do people use?

 

Chris

Reply 0
DMR

How big

How big is your layout?  For my small 9ft long switching layout I just used BSI super thin cyano..  one small bottle is all it took for the whole layout.  All you do is move the track into place, then squeeze a bit of cyano at tips of the ties, it's like water so it wicks under the ties.

https://bsi-inc.com/hobby/insta_cure.html

Don't use it directly on foam board though, but if you pre-paint the foam it works fine. Thats what i did on my layout.

Reply 1
David Husman dave1905

Latex caulk

Pretty much any latex caulk will do it.  Generally you would want clear or a color (brown, grey) rather than white.  Make sure its paintable and NOT a silicone caulk.

Put it down in a thin bead and then use a putty knife or even a piece of plastic to spread it into a thin layer.  If the caulk squidges up between the ties, its too thick.  Push pins can be used to secure the track while the caulk sets, but the times I've used it the caulk will pretty much hold track in place on tangent and gentle curves.

Dave Husman

Visit my website :  https://wnbranch.com/

Blog index:  Dave Husman Blog Index

Reply 0
anteaum2666

Plain white Elmer's Glue-All

I draw a thin wavy line of glue along the track centerline, then set the track in place.  It works great, is somewhat tacky pretty quickly, allows repositioning, and holds well.  I use track nails where needed, especially on curves, and remove them later if desired.  I've also used straight pins with plastic head to hold the track in place while it dries.  I don't use the School Glue version as it's not as strong.

When dry, the track is firmly in place.  But it can be removed easily by soaking it with water.  

When I return to ballast the track, I have no problems with the track loosening because of the diluted glue used to hold down the ballast.  Once ballasted, the track is REALLY in place.  

I use the same product to glue down cork roadbed.  My layout subroadbed is foam, but this will work on any surface.

Cheap and easy.

Michael - Superintendent and Chief Engineer
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View My Blogs

Reply 0
barr_ceo

If you want to use a

If you want to use a super-glue on foam, there ARE foam-safe CA glues available. You're most likely to find them in hobby shops that cater to the electric RC aircraft crowd.

Read my Journal / Blog...

!BARR_LO.GIF Freelanced N scale Class I   Digitrax & JMRI

 NRail  T-Trak Standards  T-Trak Wiki    My T-Trak Wiki Pages

Reply 0
jimfitch

Atlas track nails - no set time.

Track nails here.  Yes, I have to drill starter holes to avoid the nails bending, but it only takes a few seconds each.  Then it's down right away.

Quote:

.

Jim Fitch
northern VA

Reply 0
Pennsy_Nut

What I did..

Back when I was deciding on how to build my shelf layout. I thought I'd try a method mentioned, but not verified. So I started with the 2" pink foam/PAINTED. Cut to fit foam posterboard for roadbed/2 layers/again painted. And used PECO code 83 track. Once I had them cut and fitted to the space allowed. I simply applied DAP Alex caulk (bought at a Home Depot for less than $2 for a 10 oz tube.) Using a regular caulking gun, spread a bead down the center line. Spread thin with a 1" putty knife that didn't quite reach the edges of the posterboard/roadbed. But it looked good. I then placed the roadbed down and spread another bead down the center, again spread with the putty knife. Placed the track on that. Made sure it was aligned properly and weighed it down with food cans from the pantry (with wife's permission of course.) I did this approx. 3' at a time and repeated. I was NOT in a hurry. So, with 9' done, I quit. The tube said cure 24 hours. But I quit at 10 PM, went to bed. In the morning at approx. 10 AM, picked up some cans and the track and roadbed were secure. I couldn't move them. Now, as I progressed, I did discover some kinks that had to be fixed. I used a 3" putty knife and pried up the roadbed and in some places the track only. I realigned all, reapplied caulk, re weighed and done. There was no mess, no fuss. What little caulk remained was no problem, fresh caulk simply reapplied over it. This caulk is great. I held everything the way I wanted it to and was easy to work with and easy to fix. I later discovered that if: and that a personal decision. IF you want it permanent, simply use a caulk designed for permanency. Liquid Nails, Loctite and others. Also, some other DAP products. So, in Canada, you may have to search for the right stuff. I "think" there might be some "silicone" in "DAP Alex" but if so, minor. And if you do like I say, and paint everything. I think the paint prevented the caulk from doing any harm to the foams used. Now this is over a year old and there's no problems whatsoever. All track&roadbed are still firmly in place. When I needed to firmly affix the foam boards end to end (3 8' boards to make a 24' shelf), I used Loctite PL 300, but that was over $4 for the tube and I only used enough for permanency. Hope this helps. I do promise that it's exactly what I did and advise. I have heard since that this works with plywood and other base materials, such as Hemosote and such; and with cork. Again, I advise painting. When I painted my pink foam, I used cheap indoor house paint a color appropriate for ground coloring. I feel it saves a lot of time and work - with nails, spikes, etc.

Morgan Bilbo, DCS50, UR93, UT4D, SPROG IIv4, JMRI. PRR 1952.

Reply 0
Rich S

I use Liquid Nails….

No issues 

Reply 0
wp8thsub

I use...

...DAP Alex Plus clear sealant.  It holds well, but can be easily removed if you want to change something and salvage the track.

Rob Spangler MRH Blog

Reply 0
2tracks

Just spikes here....

...didn't see the need for any kind of an adhesive. I have Shinohara track which has spike holes both on the gauge side and field side of the rail.  The hole sets are 3-1/4" apart. That's 12 sets (ties) in a 39" section,    4 holes a tie = 48 spikes (cork road bed.) And even that many is overkill. I spiked every hole on the field side, every third on the gauge side, figuring that when the track was ballasted, that would be just that much more holding power. No issues running trains with just spikes.                                                                                        I just never cared for the center mounting hole in the tie, style of track fastening down the track.

 

70138344.jpg 

    

Jerry

"The Only Consistency Is The Inconsistency"
Reply 0
Nick Santo amsnick

A humidity issue in my basement….

made me observe that spikes alone in various brands of track allowed it to bend like what happens when it gets too hot for real rails.  It wasn’t as pronounced as pictures I’ve seen but the wood expanding with increasing humidity made it look like I was laying track after too many wobbly pops.  One thing that helped the situation was adding and gluing the ballast.  I use sifted rock gathered from the fines found under the piles of piles of rock the railroad actually use for ballast and Woodland Scenics “Scenic Cement” for the adhesive.  When the power stays on the dehumidifier takes care of the rest.

Nick

https://nixtrainz.com/ Home of the Decoder Buddy

Full disclosure: I am the inventor of the Decoder Buddy and I sell it via the link above.

Reply 0
Pennsy_Nut

To clarify..

I mentioned what I used. I'd now like to mention what else I tried. I had called DAP on the phone. I also went to HD, and discussed this with them. The recommendation was to use the DAP Alex Plus. When I checked the prices, the Plus was over $3 and the "not plus" was under $2. The difference I could see was that Plus was available in colors, whereas the cheaper was only white. So I bought one tube of each. Tried both on my layout. Found that they both acted the same. And in fact, the white cheap stuff dried clear. Also, because it was underneath the roadbed, color wasn't even a factor. So when I used up both tubes, just bought the cheaper. FYI My layout is not large, so the number of tubes isn't a huge thing. But if you are building a larger layout with many tubes, the less expensive is the choice. Or at least is mine. JMHO. And today, I still use DAP Alex on the painted foam ground. It dries clear enough that whatever I put on for ground cover - if it leaves a gap where the base shows through - makes no difference. That's why I used a paint the color of ground. The final effect is OK with me. Again, IMHO.

Morgan Bilbo, DCS50, UR93, UT4D, SPROG IIv4, JMRI. PRR 1952.

Reply 0
jimfitch

A humidity issue in my

Can't you control humidity with a dehumifier? 

.

Jim Fitch
northern VA

Reply 0
BN Allyville Industrial

I always want to be able to

I always want to be able to remove the track and turnouts for repair/replace purposes so I use either Elmer's whit glue or Aleene's Craft glue. They both work on foam or wood and with a small putty knife slipped under the track you can break the bond for repair/replacement.

RJH

bnlogo.jpg 

Long Live The BN!

Reply 0
Pennsy_Nut

Removability..

That's what I liked about the caulk. Extremely easy to pry up and recaulk. The problem I see with nails and spikes is that you must be sure to not push them too hard, lest they bend the ties. Also, to me, they are unsightly. Caulk means you don't have any nails or oversized spikes. Also, a very fine idea that I missed when I laid my track. Solder your feeders to the bottom of the rails before laying the track. That means more care and drilling of holes before caulking. But the final result is a really nice looking track that only need some special touches of paint and of course, the ballast.

Morgan Bilbo, DCS50, UR93, UT4D, SPROG IIv4, JMRI. PRR 1952.

Reply 0
AlexW

DAP Alex Plus

I use DAP Alex Plus, both because it's really cheap and works great, and because it's named Alex (kidding-sort of). When I first got it, I was using white to lay roadbed, but then I realized I should be using clear, so I use that now, and it works great. I use it for roadbed and tracklaying, as well as putting down ties for handlaid track.

-----

Modeling the modern era freelanced G&W Connecticut Northern

Reply 0
Deemiorgos

AlexW, I have used it also

AlexW,

I have used it also and it has stood the test of time in storage, hot and cold temp, and high and low humidity.

Reply 0
ChagaChooChoo

Almost anything will hold. Adhesive, not many nails

I prefer to use PVA glue ("white glue, Elmers .... etc.") as it is readily softened should the need for track revision or repair become necessary.  I've had some difficulty removing track that was fastened with caulk, and usually damage the track to some extent.  Soak with water, or water with alcohol, and a couple hours later it comes right up.  Same for roadbed.

I had a rail pop up in an unexpected location, necessitating repair.  It was a short 5-foot section of rail, free at both ends.  Not sure why it stuck and popped up.  It was easy to soak, slide a knife under, and cut it free facilitating replacement.

I'll use track spikes around turnouts and avoid gluing turnouts.  Also, not soldering to tracks.  But note the turnouts each need the various feeders as rail joiners are not long-term conductors.

Almost any adhesive will function. Each of us has to decide what's most important, whether cost, speed, long-term stability, or effectiveness of repairs.  Then enjoy running trains!   

Just my 1.1 cents.  (That's 2 cents, after taxes.)

Kevin

Reply 0
Pennsy_Nut

Caulk again...

Kevin. That's a shame. I can empathize. I kind of wonder how you were able to ruin track. I mentioned the way I did mine. Paint the foam. Paint the roadbed. When caulking, I spread such a thin layer that it looked white when put down. Spread with a putty knife. At that point, you could hardly see caulk. After about 10-15 minutes, it was really close to  invisible. The nice thing about caulk was the working time. Enough to get things aligned properly before weighing down. Where I have difficulty with what you did is that on a foot or so of track/roadbed, I discovered a kink. So, I simply pried up the roadbed and track with a 3" putty knife. It came up really easy with no mess. I then pried the track off. Realizing I didn't have to pry the roadbed, just the track. No matter. I simply replaced the roadbed with fresh caulk and left that alone while I worked on the rails. When satisfied there were no kinks, I placed that track back and again, recaulked. All this took barely a half hour and when I weighed that all down again, that was it! That track is still in service. The main thing I'm emphasizing is that caulk I used. It is not stated to be a permanent adhesion. It is temporary. But for my MR, that "temporary" has become permanent or at least "don't need attention or worry". That's why I mention DAP Alex. And I also mentioned that I had called DAP and discussed this with a tech. And she kept telling me that I needed a better/read more expensive caulk. And I did buy both, the cheap and the other. But when working with them, saw no appreciable difference in them. OTHER than: the cheap was only white, whereas the other had colors. But as I am telling y'all here is that the white actually disappears when dry. In fact, there were areas of plain painted pink foam that I spread a thin layer of caulk over. Left it totally alone for over night/24 hrs. It was clear and although not totally invisible, was clear enough - and made the surface water/alcohol proof so that I could put ground cover down and use the alcohol/Mod Podge treatment. The main problem I have with Elmers is the water. If you soak the area to get the track up, don't you get a lot of water on the base? So, if it's not painted or coated with something, that water can ruin the base, especially plywood. I've seen where cork was glued with Elmers and the track nailed down. The nails bent the ties, and when the cork was pried up - after soaking, there was a huge mess. The plywood got funny, uneven, and the cork was disintegrating from the prying. So, my solution seemed perfect to me. (I have a final thought. I bought the caulk at Wal-Mart and Home Depot. In both places, all I saw was the white. Colored caulk was more expensive. And if y'all need the color, then pay more.)

Morgan Bilbo, DCS50, UR93, UT4D, SPROG IIv4, JMRI. PRR 1952.

Reply 0
jimfitch

I like the nails because I

I like the nails because I can simply pull them out with a pair of needle nose pliers if I need to remove or revise track. 

Quote:

The problem I see with nails and spikes is that you must be sure to not push them too hard, lest they bend the ties.

It's not a problem.  You just tap the nail down till it's near the top of the tie and stop.  I'm not particularly coordinated but I've built 3 layouts so far and not had a problem with it.  Adhesives would have their own issues - you gotta somehow hold the track precisely in place while the adhesive cures.  If the track happens to cure crooked, you gotta pull it up and redo.  With track nails, there is a little flexibility in tweaking the track to get it "just right".  Once satisfied and everything tested and working, ballast will hold it in place after it is glued in place.

Quote:

Also, to me, they are unsightly

Easy answer, after the track is ballasted, pull them out.  If holes are visible, a dab of putty will hide them.  You gotta paint/weather the track anyway so everything will look great in the end.

I like nails because the track is down now, not later after the adhesives have cured. 

.

Jim Fitch
northern VA

Reply 0
LyndonS

I'm with Jim

Chris, I've tried many methods of fastening track down on layouts, both my own and those of a local club I was a member of for over 30 years. Including pinning, gluing, caulking.

On my latest layout I've settled on a routine that for me (and I realise, not everyone) works well and has not let me down.

1. Lay all track & turnouts with track pins. I use 3mm cork on insulation board, on plywood.

2. Complete the wiring.

3. Test the track. Iron all the bugs out - can take months. But, who cares - an excuse to run trains.

4. Mask the scenery on both sides of the track, put a thin swipe of Wahl oil on the top of the rail heads with a Q-tip and around the points and throw bar, Spray the lot with a suitable colour (my favourite is Rust-Oleum camo earth brown).

5. Clean off the rail heads, around the point blades, make sure the throw bars work freely. Easily done because of the previous application of Wahl oil.

6. The track pins almost disappear from a normal viewing distance after the paint application. So, the following steps don't have to be done straight away.

7. Ballast using the usual method with either diluted white glue or matt medium such as Mod Podge.

8. Remove the pins, plug the holes with filler and that's it. The track is secure enough to stay in place for years, but if you need to do any alterations, can be removed easily after spraying with water.

Lyndon S.

Santa Fe Railway, Los Angeles Division, 1950s

See my layout at: https://nmra.org.au/santa-fe-railway-los-angeles-division-1950s/

Reply 0
Andy Hauser Drewrail

Track Nails

I used track nails then removed them after I ballast the track.  I left track spikes on all the outer edges of the turnouts so they won't move during operations.

Andy H

Minooka. IL

 

Andy Hauser
Minooka, IL
Reply 0
scotchtrain

straight pins

If you have form down (pink/blue) I use straight pins for the roadbed (cork) and the track. Have had no problems and easy to change and or fix.

Modeling the WP, UP, SP, NP or something.

Reply 0
2tracks

Spikers VS Non Spikers

spikes, nails, glue, adhesive, caulking, even some pins & sealant in there, what, no duct tape?                                       I have a question on track nails. Are they an actual nail? how big are they? Nails/spikes, same thing? I never bought any, they just sounded, so big.

 Here is my perspective on laying track.  My layout is in a free standing "shop" building that I divided in half for the layout. (12X20ft)HO   I had the walls & ceiling insulated in the layout room. I live in an area that can see temps in low 100's in the summer and can reach -20 in the winter. Being in the high desert, the humidity is predominately low. There is a free standing heater in the layout room, I keep it about 60 in the  winter when I'm not in there.  Bench work all wood. With all of that said, my aim was to keep the expansion/contraction to a minimum. Yes, it still happens in the room.

When I laid the track on cork roadbed, I was striving to keep "running" problems to an absolute minimum. I have all Shinohara track & switches, I have no experience with any other brands. I used sweep sticks on curves & tangent track,  turnouts, I eyeballed them! The straight side of a turn out, is not that straight out of the box.  When is the last time you eyeballed a turnout?   I have a 6 inch steel machinist rule to lay against the rail on the field side to help with alignment. So the idea was to hold the track in place until it is ballasted?  And when it's ballasted, isn't that going to be the main  holding power of the track? That was my understanding.  Is there more needed? I don't know, haven't got that far yet. Any of the above combinations?  I never saw the need for adhesives or any thing else but spikes as a temporary hold until ballast is applied. As it turns out, I never did get the ballast down, ran trains for over a year & half, spikes did well, no issues. I also looked at it from the angle that I wanted the track to try and "breathe" also. I did not want to concentrate the expansion/contraction forces.  But me, I'm a belt & suspenders kind of guy...  Even after I ballasting the track, I would leave some of the spikes in to help maintain alignment. As info, I run quite a few code 88 wheels.

Chris,  you've got the right idea, ask questions....research-research-research

 

 

 

 

Jerry

"The Only Consistency Is The Inconsistency"
Reply 0
ctxmf74

  "I have a question on

Quote:

"I have a question on track nails. Are they an actual nail? how big are they? Nails/spikes, same thing? "

Hi Jerry, In general folks refer to miniature railroad spikes as track spikes and small common nails as track nails. The railroad spikes have an offset head that laps over the rail base while nails have a symmetrical head either flat or finish nail style and are usually driven thru holes in the middle of the ties. Small nails come in sizes by gauge, like 18 ga or 20 ga. by length such as 1/2 in or 5/8 inch.  ....DaveB

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