I'm leery of their products

I'm leery of their products and it has always been a hit and miss for me over the years especially QC of locos. Best to see one in a hobby shop and test run it there and examine it thoroughly.

The last loco I got runs nice, but had so many QC assembly issues. I got it as a gift.

I have tested several of their models

Got them all new.  Ran extensive tests over severe conditions & then sold them.  In a couple of instances, a piece had come off & was in the box.  

The performance of the engines was competitive with other new releases.  
I discussed the RS-18 here.  I got that model because they were having a motor problem.  I never saw the problem, and I did a number of things to try to expose it.  
I even got a motor from them to examine in the 2020 test series that I did.  
More recently, I have concluded that this motor was low in torque capacity.  It has enough for the models that I tested it in.  However, there is not much torque headroom.  Any number of things could eat that margin away.  Then the motor runs at or near stall.  This will burn the motor up in short order.  

Rapido is not unique in this motor torque issue.  I have seen other manufacturers motors that had less torque head room.  It is all driven by the desire to reduce the current draw levels.  Current is directly related to both torque & power.  Noise is also directly related to power.  Thus the desire for lower current draws.  I think that the Rapido motor went to far that way.  They have since moved to a “better” motor.

My opinion is that their QC & reliability is good.  Comparable to most of the competition.  The models I have had have been well executed, paint, details & lettering.

M420 issues are not major

The M420 seems to be sound motor-wise, however a few tweaks are needed to get it to handle uneven track.  There isn't much side to side play in the trucks so any uneven track will cause it to derail.  I trimmed the worm gear cover "fingers" about a mm to get more play for the trucks.  This seemed to help with side to side play. 

As well I found that the sanding lines could cause the truck to lift front to back on uneven track as well.  Some of the sanding lines got glued incorrectly so there wasn't enough slack in them.  I loosened the glue joint and this seemed to fix the issue.  

The only real cosmetic issue is the long hood roof vent is too tall.  I trimmed it off and replaced it with a flatter vent made with styrene and painted to match the body.  The photo is the unit after I fixed the roof vent, changed the wind deflectors on the cab and did the fixes to the trucks.  Also weathered the unit for service on the layout.   

More hits than misses

In my experience, I've had many more hits than misses.  I've bought a lot of Rapido stuff over the last 10 years (almost my entire loco collection is Rapido in both N and HO scale) as well as lots of passenger cars and a number of freight cars and cabeese.  Both my RS18's have run fine (though I haven't really pushed them so I'm still concerned about their longevity), my SW1200RS is a dream, my HO GMD1 is also really good and the RDC's, FP9A's and FPA4s are solid as well. My two Royal Hudsons are good, though I found a problem with one of them (the rear light isn't working, still have to look to see what the issue is there) and I've not had any real issues with any of the HO passenger cars or freight cars.

Currently, I'm modeling more in N scale and have bought a lot over the last couple years.  The N scale Turbo is likely the best running loco/car set I've ever had in N scale.  An absolute dream to watch going around the layout.  The FPA4 that Prairie Shadows had Rapido make is also a beauty runner.  My GMD1, though, seems overly sensitive to minor imperfections in the track.  I just got 5 FP9s in N scale and three of them run great, and the other two also have some running issues.  I have two more on order, so we'll see what they are like when they arrive.  The N scale Canadians have been well documented with their issues (sometimes there is some flash in the coupler boxes that make the couplers droop, as well as rolling and swivel issues on the trucks), but they are beautiful and I'm glad I bought them.  I'm confident I'll get them running well with a bit of effort.  The LRC cars also had some issues running like bricks, but are great cars.  The F40 should be coming in the next few weeks, so I'll see how well it runs.

So, on the whole, I've been pleased with my Rapido stuff.  I do hear stories of others with lots of problems, but I haven't really experienced that many.  I'm very happy having the detailed Canadian stuff that was never possible before, so I'm good doing a little fix here or there to get them running better.  I have no concerns spending more on Rapido, and I know if something is really off, I'll send it to them and they'll fix it.  Overall, they aren't quite Kato quality in N scale, but they are more detailed and prototypical for Canadian stuff than Kato ever was or will be.  Its a trade off and I'm OK to do it.

I have only one, a B36-7. The

I have only one, a B36-7. The detail is top notch. I have had it since they were first released going on 2 years now. It has performed exceptionally well. It has a keep alive installed and I do wish this would be standard as they are a little pricey. 

I have to say I am very satisfied with this locomotive.

Jeff

Motor Noise

Marc Simpson, I was wondering how loud is your m420?

For everyone else, I am noticing more noise then i would expect.  With sound off and at idle there is a fairly noticeable humm. Then at low speed there is also motor noise (my layout isnt big enough to test at higher speeds lol),   i can hear the motor noise over the motor sounds (when turned on).

Im not sure if this is normal or not as I dont have another loco to compare to.

I have tried the auto tune function, and also turning off bemf. Freq is set to 40hz

Thanks

Read this message thread regarding Rapido locos

https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/39104

I love the loco but the amount of work needed to get acceptable performance was disappointing for the money paid.

I've generally had really good luck with Rapido

... and if there have been issues, they've been great at resolving them. I'm not at home at the farm so apologies if I get the types wrong below as I don't have the boxes to refer to.   Most of these are mentioned and photos included on my blog.

Reading a lot of the posts on this thread has me thinking though, maybe I've just been relatively lucky.

Overall, Rapido fidelity is amazing and the molding is seriously precise (except the FB7 which suffers from a height discrepancy)

- I managed to smoke the decoder on the Royal Hudson - I pulled the decoder and shipped it and they sent me a new decoder.  It was an easy install.  No questions asked.  They had also offered to do the swap if I felt uncomfortable doing it.  The model itself is amazing.  Changing the last wheelset from rubber tire to steel tire was easier than expected, but I always worry about taking steam running gear apart as it is easy to slip a tooth on a gear and render the whole model useless if you can't trace and restore.   IMHO, no one buying this level of model at this price wants anything to do with traction tires, so they ought to be in the parts bag, not the accurate versions.

- RDCs are beautiful and while there were issues with the lighting boards (ditch, Gyro, etc.) Rapido worked with their manufacturer to get them fixed and sent me a bunch for my units.

- RS-18 - runs like a fine watch.  Zero issues.  Fantastic lighted cab detail, running lights, etc.  Gorgeous model.

- FPA2 FPB2.  Both run great.  A unit was DCC sound from store.  B unit was DC only, but they had the specific Rapido ESU decoder in stock.  Easy install and was pleased to see the DC B unit already came with a speaker installed - truly plug and play.

- FP7 F7B - run and sound great.  Only issue is the floor/roof heights don't match and the paint is quite a different tone.  As they can't do anything else about it, they offered to take either or both back, but I wanted the models.  If I live long enough, I might look into lowering the B Unit. 

- I have 8 HS-16-44's on order in both Maroon and Gray and Action Red.  Once they are all sold out, I will likely sell the Action Red Units, new, unsealed as I only ordered them to help Rapido hit the minimum.

- Have D10's on order.

- Have several of the Wide Vision Vans on order and multiples of the HO Canadian Cars in CP Maroon scheme, but these have been slow to arrive.

All in all, I have no major complaints and Rapido is running fine Canadian models that no one else has done nearly as nice a job on.  I wish they would default to putting steel tires on at the factory and leaving the rubber equipped wheelsets in the parts bag.  Factory installed crew would be a nice tough to as opening these things up at the price one pays ought to be a last resort.

Jason and crew do very nice work and for the most part have elevated the level of product in the hobby giving everyone else a new standard to catch up to.

I am curious to see if rotating roof fans will ever appear!

I have two of the HO scale

I have two of the HO scale Rapido 8-40CM DCC. They both ran poorly at lower speeds (pretty jerky), worse as a pair.  I don't put up with that from any of my other locomotives, much less the two (at the time) most expensive I owned. So I spent a lot of time trying to break them in, use ESU cv54 "auto-tune," and adjusted other cv's with no real improvement.  I sent the worst offender back for warranty work and it came back much improved, but not perfect.

Because the experience using them was so unsatisfying, they alternated between sitting on the layout or in their box.  This past spring I pulled them out with the ultimatum of either fixing or selling them.  Sent the other back to Rapido and it was returned in about the same condition it left in. Shipping them back for warranty work was expensive, so that wasn't going to happen again.

I found a site where someone posted a list of cv motor characteristics for problem Rapido motors that are COMPLETELY different than the ones auto-tune was coming up with.  Those suggestions were relatively close, and I have modified them for my 2.  Summer came and they have been sitting, but with a little more tweaking I hopefully won't have to sell them because I do like them and they fit an operational need.

Based on these 2, it is very unlikely I would buy any more locomotives from Rapido without being able to test run first, it was a lot of money to spend for aggravation and a couple pretty objects.

Mike

Are these performance problems

With the drive or the DCC module?  My experience has been with DC units & they all were excellent.  I have observed a fair amount of variation when I run tests in a common test bed of several modules of the same version. I think it has to do with the quality of the electronics parts in the module.  Thus a potential for variation from the base level.  Thus applies across the whole spectrum.  

I have been hearing a lot about Rapido’s traction tires recently.  People are getting mulitple units of the same model, some with the tire wheel sets in lace & others not.  Which is strange.

The reason that they are supplying the traction tires is to provide the pulling capacity that customers expect.  These are particularly needed for layouts with inclines, sharp curves (radius under 22”) and other factors.  By providing both, then the user can decide if he needs them or not.

They went through a couple of designs that made the shell removal extremely difficult.  That is a bad idea.  Sometime down stream the owner will have to user the hood for any number of reasons.  They need to make that easy.

Larry

Larry

I agree, the biggest problem I had with my Rapido locos in the early days was the removal of the shell.  The original FP9 was a pain, but the biggest pain was getting the front coupler back on the way it was designed.  I think they resolved that in the most recent run (but I haven't checked - will soon when my Scale Sounds Speakers come in) but I think more of the latest models are much easier to get into.  I think their own tech team as much as anything wanted that easier.

With my N scale FP9s, two of the models that came with the traction tire ran like crap until I replaced it, then they ran great.  Not a fan of traction tires, but in N scale a single loco without does struggle more with pulling a lot of cars up a grade and/or on an 11" (N scale) curve.  Of course, the more free-rolling the rolling stock is, the better it will be as well.

My Experience

I love Rapido for having done so much CNR prototype equipment in HO Scale. I have a 10 car "Super Continental" from their original products. When they offered the complimenting FP9 locomotive, I got three of those.

Since then I've purchased 3 RS-18s, 2 FA2s and a RDC-3 which I probably didn't need but just couldn't look away from. Plus various freight cars.

Due to the nature of their "cutting edge" technology, I've had problems with some of the passenger cars (the most recent diner was flawless). I had a motor problem on one of the three RS-18s and a small problem on a FP9 which I diagnosed and corrected. Getting the shell off that engine was a trick. The RDC-3 made a trip back to Canada. All of the engines are working well. The FA2s were excellent right out of the box. Once right, they all now run smoothly and pull well.

I now clean the locomotive wheels before operating now as their blackening process has difficulties. The DCC with sound is good although it would be nice if they mapped the features like other manufacturers. I think all of mine are ESU LokSound of various versions.

I've pre-ordered five more locomotives as well as freight cars. Rapido seems to make more of what I want than other manufacturers, so they get the business.

Bob

Is this isolated to Rapido N?

I don't own any Rapido N, so hard to compare.

I’ve yet to see any tractive force issues with Kato or Atlas N locomotives with all steel wheels, and I own at least 100 of them.  Granted most are not DCC but even the few I have converted run well.  Any of them will pull 20 frieght cars with zero slip.  

I have converted several Atlas (Kato) RS3’s, which are a total pain to convert, but they still pull like crazy.

I remember when the Kato GP-38s arrived and then the SD40s - none of us could believe the quality at the time compared to the Arnold, Bachmann, Life Like, Model Power, RivArossi stuff we had been forced to put up with.   And then Kato showed up at Expo ‘86 with that amazing commuter train layout in the Japanese Pavilion.  

I think the majority of stuff from the ‘80s and ‘90s that i own that says Atlas on the box was actually built for them by Kato.

Maybe the density of the frame material Rapido are using, or generally “less” frame to make room for DCC components is affecting tractive effort.

Anyways, my point is, Rapido ought to license Kato to build for them.  China may do equally good injection molding, but their chassis probably aren’t in the same league. 

Mike

The tractive issues with the N scale FP9 that have been reported are more related to the ability to pull the Canadian set that they released earlier and the rolling issues that the Canadian cars had.  I've proven that one FP9 can pull the Canadian around level track easily once those rolling issues are resolved.  The Canadian cars are also heavier than the Kato cars, which I like, so its not quite an apples/oranges comparison.

I currently only own Rapido locos in N scale, except for a small Kato 0-4-0 tank engine which I don't think is a fair thing to compare them to.  I would like to get an Atlas and Kato to compare them with the Rapido side by side, but I don't think the Rapido is going to be much different either way, other than the Kato and Atlas might have slightly smoother running (I've always found Katos run like a swiss watch and Atlas has been pretty solid, too, for a long time).  Also, I need to find an Atlas and Kato loco that suits my layout and the only one that I can currently see is the Atlas GP40-2W that is currently in production. 

I will say, my Rapido GMD1 (in N scale) seems to pull just fine, too, for a smaller engine.  I had it pulling all 19 of my freight cars around my test track.

If your locomotives can't

If your locomotives can't pull a reasonable length train, it's a problem. I have quite a few N scale locomotives without traction tires, and the only ones that couldn't pull well were the Kato Mikados. There were quickly modified wheelsets made available with traction tires that solved that issue.

All of my others pull very well for their size. Bachmann 44 tonners will pull 10-15 car trains without even breathing hard, and a little Tomix 3 axle switcher does almost as well. My Lifelike SW9s will pull 30 cars on the flat (If you keep the cap weight in them when adding DCC).

The big factor is that 90%+ of my cars have MicroTrains trucks and wheels. Those that don't, have either Atlas metal wheels, or KATO wheels and trucks (which are the smoothest rolling sets I have ever seen in any scale)

Beautiful but lacking

I own 10 so far and there are more on pre order and others on my want list.  

Well first off the detail is top notch.  I’m not a nutty rivet counter so complaining about the placement of this or that and telling me they did a bad job is pointless.   Their lighting is great and I enjoy programming the ESU decoders to make the lights function how I want.  The brass handrails are the best in the business.  Scaletrains needs to take notes.  
 

So here are my gripes.   First off they spend all this time 3D scanning this and that.  They are beautiful!   But then....they put in a CHEAP bottom of the line iPhone speaker?   Sound quality is horrible.   The M420’s do have sugar cubes but the box they are in is pathetic!   All of my Rapidos except the SW1200rs’ have Scale Sound System speakers in them.  The SWs don’t have enough room.  I had to chop out a 2.5” section of the weight in my M420’s to get a decent speaker in them.  Now they sound like a $300 engine!  
 

Second gripe.....  Put a stinkin Keep Alive in them Rapido!   Do not lecture me now on track maintenance and point me to the hundreds upon thousands of OPINIONS on what works best.  If you want to enjoy quality sound and operating you must have a Keep Alive of some sort.  Scaletrains does it.   So Rapido should take note!   I have a large switching operation layout.  Lots of turnouts that can kill your motion.  Not with a keep alive though.  A good keep alive in these and now they operate like a $300 engine!  
 

By the time I install a top quality speaker, and then a keep alive I’m an extra $40-$60 in on a new engine.   Then there is the time I have to figure out how to modify it.   Rapido needs to drop a little of the weight and sacrifice pulling power and squeeze in these two things.  Stop being cheap on sound and operation Rapido!  
 

I've heard a keepslive is a

I've heard a keepslive is a very good idea for the Rapido SW1200s.

Jim Fitch

Can you point me towards a guide for installing a Keep-Alive on a Rapido SW1200? - Thanks!

what is the problem and what is the solution?

Assuming that the SW1200 is the only one that has the difficulty, isn't the problem really insufficient pickup points/wheels/axles? A keepalive is one solution to that problem, but definitely not the only one. If the loco had good enough pickup, nobody would be needing to discuss a keepalive, right?

The root problem could potentially also be related to track or track wiring, or even track maintenance (eg dirty track) although in such a case it's likely that it's also interacting with a pickup problem.

I'm not dismissing the notion of a keepalive, but particularly in cases like the SW1200 in which installing the keepalive can be quite a challenge, there may well be some other solutions, some of which may be both more general and less challenging.

Bcause of the nature of sound programs

Constant electrical power is a requirement.  Thus, a KE insures that condition exists in almost all situations.  Thus it  should be a best practice with sound units.

My tests have indicated that pulling capacity is impacted by the motor characteristics, weight and wheel material & “roughness”.  The Rapido motor I tested was on the marginal side of motor capacity.  Adequate,  but limited.  The weight they add allows the unit to be competitive in pulling capacity.  This requires the motor to use a large amount of its capacity.  The will cause the motor to run hot, limiting its life.  
These tests have been with HO models, but the physics is the same for N scale.  Clearly when comparing pulling capacity, the weight of the engine is an important factor.  
I see around 3 cars per ounce of engine weight on a level surface.  
The pulling capacity is really a level of drawbar force. The drawbar force must exceed the resistance of the train.  The train resistance is impacted by the roll ability of the cars, the weight of each car, the sharpness of the track curves, the average grade of the train plus several other items.  
Not surprisingly, adding weight to the engine increases the max train length,  adding weight to the cars reduces the max length.  
The tests I have done, indicate the Rapido engines are competitive, but not outstanding pullers.  That may be fine if your intending to use multiple units with modest length trains.

Jeff

Here are some pictures of my Rapido SW1200. I put a KA2 in the cab of the unit. Pretty straightforward. I took out one of the control stands to make room, It was easy and are a good runner in my California basement. Kevin  

Soldered to?

I didn't think there were solder pads on the SW1200 motherboard for a capacitor. 

Interesting. 

Keep alive

You solder to the left side tabs on the 21 pin decoder on top of the board. From left to right it would be red, white, then black for a ESU power pack or blue skip the middle tab then the black and white striped wire for a TCS KA2. The instructions are in the ESU quick start guide. Kevin

Remove the weight

I removed the small weight near the cab.  It’s a small change for better operations.   I’ve never had issues moving cars.  But the most I move at a time 10-15.   It’s a tight fit but it can be done   Both of mine have the ESU Current Keeper so I don’t need to remove the shell and unplug anything to program the engine.