Pennsy_Nut
I have a home edition PC with Windows 10/with AMD chip, that is 8 years old. Was thinking about replacement. It's a Lenovo and I like it. So when I went to Lenovo web site, all I found was business. No home use. I contacted them, asking about a home use and was told they had none in current supply to ship. I was also advised they are all Intel. So I politely asked if they would be bringing out any home PC's with AMD. And was told NO. Also, from what I could tell, the "tower" is going away. 99% of the PC's shown are laptop or these new tiny boxes (12" by 12" by 2"). So for me, Lenovo is not in my sight. Thought I might mention this as pertinent to what I'm reading above. Also, the support from Lenovo is not easy. You either pay or find something online that can help you diagnose a home PC. Another FYI. I had MS contact me personally/without charge, and they were extremely helpful and polite and even though a foreign voice, I was able to communicate with him. That's a first for me. He helped me diagnose online and found MS functioning perfectly. So Windows 11 will wait for me - 5 years remaining with 10! Now, just for trains. Decoder Pro works great - on either this desktop or my laptop.

Morgan Bilbo, DCS50, UR93, UT4D, SPROG IIv4, JMRI. PRR 1952.

Reply 2
Michael Tondee

"Normal" PC use

For most, if not all, model railroad, research and home office type use  any garden variety tower or laptop is fine. IMO "Towers" aren't really going away, they are just getting more and more niche. There's many online retailers who will let you pick and choose the components that go into a Tower and then deliver it complete to your door. It can get pricey quick though to do it that way. The most "bang for buck" is usually had by putting the stuff together yourself or finding a friend to do it for you if you're not comfortable.  You seem to be fine with what you have though so I wouldn't sweat it right now.

BTW, my backup PC to this one is a tiny HP desktop unit that came from Wal-mart for just under 300 bucks. I bought it in a pinch when this machine was down with a Mobo problem  and I couldn't get a replacement right away. It won't play the high graphics horsepower games I do on this one but it keeps me from going batty trying to access the internet on a tablet or a phone if this machine goes down. I will never understand why anyone would voluntarily subject themselves to the torture of trying to access the internet on a mobile device. That's an absolute last resort for me unless I'm traveling or something.

Michael, A.R.S. W4HIJ

 Model Rail, electronics experimenter and "mad scientist" for over 50 years.

Member of  "The Amigos" and staunch disciple of the "Wizard of Monterey"

My Pike: The Blackwater Island Logging&Mining Co.

Reply 2
Arizona Gary

My experience with Lenovo

In March 2020, I had to upgrade my OS, since Win 7 was no longer being supported by MS. After much searching, I settled on a Lenovo Thinkcentre M920 SFF. Though I wasn't in a hurry for Win 10 (got Pro), that's what it came with and its idiosyncrasies were workable. I got it with 12 GB of primary memory and a 512 GB SDD.  I put two SDD drives from my previous PC into it, also. I got it with some of the add-ons. Probably should have forgone the internal card reader and DVD R/w. Have almost never used either. What I didn't get, but should have, was the wireless internet adapter. It's inexpensive as an included item and next to impossible, and expensive, to add later on.  Ethernet cables are so inconvenient.  Oh, and their mice/keyboards aren't worth the effort.  Find a good (read Microsoft) mouse and keyboard.

I use it to run Windows Office Pro, a couple of photo editing programs, and 3rd Planit model railroad design software (CAD). Some other apps, but that's the primary items.

The CAD software takes the most power, especially since some of my files are rather hefty.

As for issues with the machine, I haven't had any. Haven't had any need for product support.

Now I've either built or modified PCs since 1985. But assembling your own is no longer a good option, IMO.

Now, for the other issues.

It may be that with the world wide chip shortage, getting Intel chips may much easier than AMD. I've always used Intel (one exception, and it was a clone chip).

Business or home use? What really defines that these days?  Price, or performance?  A lot of "home" PCs these days are for Gamers, and they want the power of an engineering workstation.

Laptop or "desktop"? When running some programs, like CAD, laptops tend to get a tad warm. Do I wish I had a laptop? Of course. But then again, I like a rather large monitor and most laptops are under 15".

Price? Depends on what all you really want in a PC. Use defines need.  I feel that for the computing power and graphics that I wanted, I was going to spend a little over a grand, even with a low starting point.

Conclusion:

I'd personally stick with Lenovo at this point. I may get a laptop for on the road research and photo handling. But I do like their machines.  Now I've owned a number of brands, starting with an original IBM PC in 1984-5, and have almost never needed product support for any of them. Had some issues with an Intel MB I bought, and with Intel helping on it, but that's the rare exception.

Always remember you should get CPUs that are within a generation, two at the worst, of the current one. And the best memory out there.

But it is only a tool. Find one that fits in your "hand" the most comfortably for you.

All of the above is opinion based on experience.

Reply 0
earlyrail

Look at refurbised units

If this is just for the railroad, I would have a look at refurbished units.

A 2 to 3 year old Lenovo laptop with Windows 10 Pro can be had in the 3-4 hundred range.

Newegg is one source, there are others.

 

Howard Garner

Reply 0
Mike_S

um, lets look at this comment....

um, lets look at this comment.... "Another FYI. I had MS contact me personally/without charge, and they were extremely helpful and polite and even though a foreign voice, I was able to communicate with him. That's a first for me. He helped me diagnose online and found MS functioning perfectly. "

From  https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/protect-yourself-from-tech-support-scams-2ebf91bd-f94c-2a8a-e541-f5c800d18435    "Microsoft does not send unsolicited email messages or make unsolicited phone calls to request personal or financial information, or to provide technical support to fix your computer. Any communication with Microsoft has to be initiated by you."

There are many convincing scammers out there wanting to gain access to your computer, no matter what the platform or OS, please don't give anyone who you didn't initiate the call with access to your system.  And even if you do initiate the call make sure it is actually a reputable provider, i.e. Apple support, MS support, Geek squad. 

If someone did have access to your system, take note of what kind of personal and financial info you have on the PC and change any and all necessary passwords and please have someone knowledgeable check your system for malware.  

I apologize if I misunderstood your statement about MS contacting you, but I worked for Apple and heard many stories about people giving access their systems, often times the outcome was not good. 

Mike

Reply 0
YoHo

A few thoughts. Unless you

A few thoughts.

Unless you plan to play computer games or store petabytes worth of data, you probably don't need a large desktop. A small form factor such as the Intel NUC or any of the other brands small small small desktops will have all the power you need. 

 

Also, Gary, I'm not sure your experience, but adding Wireless to a desktop is pretty cheap. On modern computers with USB 3 ports, just buy the low cost usb dongle and be done. USB 3 will have zero bottlenecks, so it will be high speed.

Reply 0
Chris VanderHeide cv_acr

MS Help

Quote:

Another FYI. I had MS contact me personally/without charge, and they were extremely helpful and polite and even though a foreign voice, I was able to communicate with him. That's a first for me. He helped me diagnose online and found MS functioning perfectly.

Yeah.... that's a scam. Microsoft did not call you.

Your computer is probably now compromised in some way that allows the scammer to get your personal info...

Check and change all your sensitive banking passwords (and do it from a different machine) and you might want to bring it into a Geek Squad type service place to undo whatever they did.

Reply 0
Michael Tondee

Price/performance and building PC's...

If you have the time and the comfort level, putting together your own PC is still your best bet as far as price/performance. If I had let an online company put together this PC or tried to get anything near as powerful in a "big box" store, it would easily have cost me almost twice as much for the same amount of processing and graphics power. I disagree that it's not still a very viable option but it's certainly not for everyone and it depends on your needs. This PC is absolutely loafing surfing the internet right now but if I want to fire up demanding games like MSFS 2020, Star Citizen or New World, I have the horsepower under the hood to do so. But, I doubt your average model rail has need for such things so any small tower or laptop should do most people just fine.

Michael, A.R.S. W4HIJ

 Model Rail, electronics experimenter and "mad scientist" for over 50 years.

Member of  "The Amigos" and staunch disciple of the "Wizard of Monterey"

My Pike: The Blackwater Island Logging&Mining Co.

Reply 0
YoHo

It's not so much

It's not so much price/performance anymore. Certainly Dell and HP will sell you a gaming tower that gets you a much more economical deal than what you could build yourself.

The big difference is more akin to features. Build it yourself and you are making your own tradeoffs. Do you sacrafice a bit on the CPU to add a bitter GPU and more memory (the answer is always yes by the way) Do you opt for the smaller SSD to save bucks, because you have backup already? Reuse your DVD drive, Case, etc? Upgrade to a more reliable powersupply with modular cables?

Building your own doesn't give you a cheaper box, it gives you a custom box. 

Reply 0
Pennsy_Nut

Wow, now I'm scared.

So what can I do now? Just changing passwords isn't going to stop them. We all know that. Once you've been hijacked, there's nothing to be done? There must be a way to "clean" the PC? As mentioned, I did do a reinstall of Windows 10. I take it from what you are saying that that didn't do the trick? Is there any way to avoid "geek squad"? They charge $99 and up. I'm reaching out for help!

Morgan Bilbo, DCS50, UR93, UT4D, SPROG IIv4, JMRI. PRR 1952.

Reply 0
Michael Tondee

That wasn't my experience a

That wasn't my experience a couple of years ago when I built this rig. It still was markedly cheaper to put it together myself than letting Alienware, which is Dell's gaming arm, do it for me. Your do probably get better warranty coverage and tech support going that route though. And don't even get me started about what HP and the big box stores like Wal-mart and Best Buy call "Gaming PC's". They are way under  powered for the money. When I bought my little HP backup machine at Wal-Mart, they had an HP "Gaming PC" there that had 8GB of RAM. The bare minimum for most games these days is 16GB and most will perform even better with 32GB.

Michael, A.R.S. W4HIJ

 Model Rail, electronics experimenter and "mad scientist" for over 50 years.

Member of  "The Amigos" and staunch disciple of the "Wizard of Monterey"

My Pike: The Blackwater Island Logging&Mining Co.

Reply 0
Ted Becker rail.bird

Building your own

If you are thinking about building your own PC check out https://techreport.com/  They have a builders guide and a forum where you can post your proposed build to have it critiqued by experts.  They link to NewEgg which is probably the best source of parts.  We have built four computers over the last few years with no problems.  Two of them run Windows 10 and two of them are on Linux.


Ted Becker

Granite Falls, WA

Reply 0
YoHo

The HP Omen does have an 8gig

The HP Omen does have an 8gig base version, but it's customizable up to 32gig.

 

One of the reasons home built MIGHT be cheaper is because you aren't paying for everything that you would pay for in a prebuilt PC. That however counts as customization to me. You can choose not to pay for something. The flipside is that HP and Dell pay less for the CPU, the Memory, the storage and the motherboard. 

 

And that's just when we're all being on the up and up. There's a certain segment that like to do things like buy their Microsoft Windows Key's off the gray or black market. 

Reply 0
jeffshultz

Pennsy_Nut

Geek Squad is sort of a lowest common denominator. If you have a good PC repair shop in town (Ask on the community groups on Facebook if you are on it), that's perfectly good too. 

But $99 is probably the least you will pay. 

orange70.jpg
Jeff Shultz - MRH Technical Assistant
DCC Features Matrix/My blog index
Modeling a fictional GWI shortline combining three separate areas into one freelance-ish railroad.

Reply 0
barr_ceo

Ask yourself this

Ask yourself this question....

If you think $99 is too much... how much willa worst case scenario of identity theft cost you?

And don't limit your thinking to the computer.... you need to call your financial institutions and let them know, and get new credit cards.

 

NOW

Reply 0
joef

My rule of thumb when I get an "official" phone call

Unless I know the caller, my official stance on any phone call is "I do not share personal information nor conduct any business over the phone when I did not initiate the call. You could be anybody ... goodbye!"

Nothing says I even need to be polite on the phone if they're trying to take my time claiming to be someone official -- I can and do just hang up if they're someone I do not know.

These days you need to be very mercenary and highly protective.

It's pretty crazy, we have had a Craig's List caller responding to an ad try to scam us and do identity theft. We always use an alias now and we never meet the "interested party" anywhere except in a public parking lot with lots of people around. Forget giving them your real phone number, real email address, or letting them find out your home address.

Joe Fugate​
Publisher, Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine

[siskiyouBtn]

Read my blog

Reply 0
Hillyard999

PC hijacked

Pennsynut,  You have a problem.  I'm really sorry they deceived you.

If MS "support" called you to "help you" with problems they "detected" on your machine, and if you did give them access to "confirm" or "fix" the problem, then your machine is compromised.  And perhaps all accounts you access.  

Research malware detection software, and get some that works for you.  Antivirus software may or may not detect installed malware.

Use another machine to change all passwords for all accounts you ever accessed on the first machine.

If you are savvy enough to re-install windows 10, then you probably know that it wants your MS account logon info even before you complete the install.  It uses this to log on to your MS account when you first boot up the computer.  This means the scammers may already have your MS e-mail password.

Do NOT respond or act upon any unsolicited  "bank official" phone calls or email claiming a mistake has placed large amounts of funding into your bank account.  Confirm any suspicious phone calls independently by contacting the official institution via their official contact method.

Run the malware detection software; change your passwords. You may want to just buy a new PC.  Or, re-install windows again.  Monitor for unusual traffic; your machine may have been set up as a bot for sending scam emails, or porno, or gateways to such.

Also, if you are still uncertain, pay the $99 to geek squad / whoever.  Your security and peace of mind are worth it.  Don't be too cheap to protect yourself.

Best wishes, and so sorry for your situation.

Reply 0
Pennsy_Nut

cheap

Y'all are right. I'm on my wife's PC now. Just to let y'all know you are right. I was/am hacked. So, on this/my wife's PC, I've changed passwords for finance/bank/credit card/Amazon. And trying to think of who else. I have a flash drive with all my passwords. 7 pages of 31 lines per = somewhere close to 720. Impossible to change them all within a reasonable period of time. So it's off to a local guru. I'll be back in a few days just to let y'all know. Oh what a mess. And yes, I should have known better. You should hear my wife right about now! I need ear plugs. And she's pissed at me because I needed to use this PC to go online to change passwords. As for my PC, I simply pulled the plug from the modem. Probably too late though. This MS chat was a few days ago. And when I went to my banks/credit cards, I did not see any activity. So now I wonder about having to made phone calls. I sure hope none of you ever fall for this. I feel like a chump - and I deserve it. 

Morgan Bilbo, DCS50, UR93, UT4D, SPROG IIv4, JMRI. PRR 1952.

Reply 0
f134kilmil

An Amateur's Experience

After using Windows at work for several years, my son & his wife gave me a 2009 Mac desktop for my home use. I truly love it! It has been reliable & problem free & the large screen is appreciated by my geriatric eyes. I never had any computer last this long without it crashing.

What I most resented about Windows was their planned obsolescence -- after a certain period they would stop supporting a system, sometimes requiring purchase of new everything. Mac is much better, albeit my 12-year old desktop has hit an age-induced resistance to the latest operating system. Eventually I will have to upgrade, especially as more applications go 64-bit. And that will be expensive. At my age (80) it will likely outlast me.

Recognizing that Windows might be the "industry standard", I do have a laptop, several years old & now used only for applications which won't work with Mac (including my RailPro train control). It sometimes requires close to an hour to process updates. I don't know if the newer Windows systems are better. When my existing one dies I will likely buy a refurbished.

Steve Miller

Fredericksburg, VA

 

 

Steve Miller

Fredericksburg, VA

Reply 0
Michael Tondee

Not a "Gaming PC" out of the box then

Quote:

The HP Omen does have an 8gig base version, but it's customizable up to 32gig.

That's all well and good but the 8GB HP I saw at Walmart has "Gaming PC" printed on the box and for all intents and purposes it's not one out of the box. The standard bare minimum these days is 16GB if you don't want games constantly hammering the page file on your expensive SSD.  The "sweet spot" is 32GB  but it won't be long before that's not even enough and it really should be considered the bare minimum now. I don't think the average home or business user has any idea what's really involved in a true mid to high range gaming PC and for the mass marketers like HP to put stuff out there like that borders on deceptive advertising as far as I'm concerned. I get that most average model rails aren't hardcore gamers like I am but if they want performance beyond just web surfing, streaming video and text editing then they need to better educate themselves before buying because there's a lot of stuff out there that's not really what it says it is.

Michael, A.R.S. W4HIJ

 Model Rail, electronics experimenter and "mad scientist" for over 50 years.

Member of  "The Amigos" and staunch disciple of the "Wizard of Monterey"

My Pike: The Blackwater Island Logging&Mining Co.

Reply 0
Benny

....

Quote:

The most "bang for buck" is usually had by putting the stuff together yourself or finding a friend to do it for you if you're not comfortable. 

I just had a kid come to me on his way overseas, and he wanted some advice on a computer because he's planning on having his computer shipped to his location and he's worried about the time between the two dates.

I've been running a bone stock Predator 15 with Windows 10 since 2017, which I bought right before I went overseas myself.  So far I have replaced the internal power supply and most recently the screen, plus one external mouse and the present external mouse (Logitech/MS/ETC two button + wheel button) is set to be replaced shortly because it too is going out.  I don't use the touchpad, even when mobile, the mouse and mousepad comes with in my bag and has done so for over 34,000 real world miles at this point.  No complaints.

Seeing how it's extremely hard to make any advice in regards to computers at this points, because there are so many options and so many price levels, I had this kid look up the current Predator Triton line.  He was surprised and almost shocked to find out he could have a laptop with similar specs and a good graphics card and for a similar price to the box he has built - and he thought his box was pretty decent.  I dare say he probably bought a Predator, because we found sources in town and he was gone pretty quick.  If he did get the Predator, I don't think he will be too upset.

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I will never understand why anyone would voluntarily subject themselves to the torture of trying to access the internet on a mobile device. 

And the world is moving forward without understanding the resistance. We use the internet on our tablets and smartphones because it is easy, fast, and immediately available to us when we need to quickly look up a price, or a comparable item, or the location of something, or snipe the ending of an Ebay auction, or look up our bank account balance.  But here's the kicker: most of the sites we use are not accessed through the internet engine itself, we access most commonly used sites (Maps, Facebook, Ebay, Paypal, banking) through that site's mobile app that is specifically made for that tablet or smartphone environment.   For most things, it's all we ever need - Ebay has some things tucked away on their web site that cannot be accessed in their app, but it's a minor issue that can usually wait until we get home.

Quote:

Probably should have forgone the internal card reader and DVD R/w. 

Internal card reader, perhaps.  DVD-RW, never forego it. The one weakness of my Predator is the removable drive back for swapping in an additional cooling fan, the problem comes up when I have a CD and I cannot quickly access that DVD drive because it's in another room or in another box or somewhere not with me.  I don't need it often, but when I do, it's just gotta be there.

My last university planned for a wired universe, their new when I went there student work center had ethernet ports EVERYWHERE.  Then wireless came along about a year or so later and that's all that people used, leaving the ports collecting dust.  What we all crowded around was the power outlets, there were not near enough of those and you would see some interesting arrays on the plugs...

Quote:

The CAD software takes the most power, especially since some of my files are rather hefty.

Same, especially when they get really big and really complex.  I can typically get the full scope of a modeling project in before the program bogs down, particularly when saving or opening the file.

Quote:

As for issues with the machine, I haven't had any. Haven't had any need for product support.

And there's the kicker.  They sell you support for two or three times the cost of the machine, but...is that support really worth the hassle?  Most jobs on my laptop are a Youtube video away from being done, maybe some people should not attempt, but if you're playing decoder installations and DCC and Ardinos, it's not that far removed.  Watch the video on your smartphone, do the work on your computer.  Aha, there's another reason why we use the Internet on our smart phones!  Replacing my screen was literally watch a step, pause video, do a step, play video.

Quote:

Now I've either built or modified PCs since 1985. But assembling your own is no longer a good option, IMO.

Agreed.  I watched my uncle building them in the 90s and then bought my own prebuilt in the 2000s instead of waiting on him to build one and even though I rebuilt that one and built a new one after that, I never looked back once I bought my first laptop.  I liked the Toshiba better than the Predator in one regard: external batteries.  I had half a dozen second hand batteries and I could go for 6 to 8 hours without plugging in.  The extra lifting power of the Predator is well appreciated.

Quote:

Intel Or AMD?

Both companies make great products for comparable prices, research your chip against your desired specs and go.  So many good chips, far too little time...

Quote:

Laptop or "desktop"? When running some programs, like CAD, laptops tend to get a tad warm. Do I wish I had a laptop? Of course.

The heat is an issue, but the Predator has that drive bay fan plus the ability to manually set the fan speed within Predator Sense.  I will probably need to replace the fans at some point next.

Quote:

But then again, I like a rather large monitor and most laptops are under 15".

Docked laptops can drive just as big of a monitor as you wish to run, to include what your desktop is driving, with the keyboard and the mouse of your choice.  It's just a much slimmer setup with more demanding heat management issues.

Quote:

Price? Depends on what all you really want in a PC. Use defines need.  I feel that for the computing power and graphics that I wanted, I was going to spend a little over a grand, even with a low starting point.

If you want computing power and graphics, thank the gamers for driving the high end computer market down to an affordable level.  About a grand and a couple hundred and you have a really nice laptop...or the same specs in a desktop...whether you buy it complete or buy the parts and build it together yourself.

Quote:

Unless you plan to play computer games or store petabytes worth of data, you probably don't need a large desktop. A small form factor such as the Intel NUC or any of the other brands small small small desktops will have all the power you need.

If it's just driving the layout or the laser cutter or something of the low level processing, maybe.

If you're planning any work with 3D CAD or have an inkling you might get into 3D CAD work or even just 3D printing, graphics and a terabyte are your friends.  And as weird as it may be, the gaming industry products happily support the business of 3D CAD work really well.

Quote:

If you have the time and the comfort level, putting together your own PC is still your best bet as far as price/performance. If I had let an online company put together this PC or tried to get anything near as powerful in a "big box" store, it would easily have cost me almost twice as much for the same amount of processing and graphics power. I disagree that it's not still a very viable option but it's certainly not for everyone and it depends on your needs. This PC is absolutely loafing surfing the internet right now but if I want to fire up demanding games like MSFS 2020, Star Citizen or New World, I have the horsepower under the hood to do so. But, I doubt your average model rail has need for such things so any small tower or laptop should do most people just fine.

Look up the current Predator Triton line.  And the average model railroader should consider tinkering with 3D CAD.  Having a computer capable of running it is a great start, you can't learn  to swing if you don't have the hammer.

Quote:

It's not so much price/performance anymore. Certainly Dell and HP will sell you a gaming tower that gets you a much more economical deal than what you could build yourself.

Building your own doesn't give you a cheaper box, it gives you a custom box. 

This is perhaps the soundest opinion here.

Quote:

That wasn't my experience a couple of years ago when I built this rig. It still was markedly cheaper to put it together myself than letting Alienware, which is Dell's gaming arm, do it for me. Your do probably get better warranty coverage and tech support going that route though. And don't even get me started about what HP and the big box stores like Wal-mart and Best Buy call "Gaming PC's". They are way under  powered for the money. When I bought my little HP backup machine at Wal-Mart, they had an HP "Gaming PC" there that had 8GB of RAM. The bare minimum for most games these days is 16GB and most will perform even better with 32GB.

My Predator 15 is from the G9-593 model number series.  You can check it out for yourself.

https://www.acer.com/ac/en/IN/content/predator-models/laptops/predator15  

I bought it 2017 for about $1100 and it was already an older model number back then.  You don't buy the floor model if you're looking for the better gaming deal, but that HP Omen floor model can be upgraded to 32 GB for about $140.

Quote:

Research malware detection software, and get some that works for you.  Antivirus software may or may not detect installed malware.

Be careful.  Some of those tools may themselves be malware disguised as malware detection software.

Quote:

I sure hope none of you ever fall for this. I feel like a chump - and I deserve it. 

Don't feel too bad, it's a billion dollar industry.

https://techtutor.guru/scams/common-computer-scams/

https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2021/02/new-data-shows-ftc-received-2-2-million-fraud-reports-consumers

https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2019-internet-crime-report-released-021120#:~:text=IC3%20received%20467%2C361%20complaints%20in%202019%E2%80%94an%20average%20of,phishing%20and%20similar%20ploys%2C%20non-payment%2Fnon-delivery%20scams%2C%20and%20extortion.

FTC says $3.3 Billion in 2021 is up from $1.8 Billion in 2019, FBI says 2019 was $3.5 Billion.  You got hit but hopefully you haven't lost much money to the scammers yet - jsut to some place like GeekSquad.

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Mac is much better, albeit my 12-year old desktop has hit an age-induced resistance to the latest operating system. 

Macs are no different with the planned obsolescence model.  They follow it no different than Windows does.

Quote:

That's all well and good but the 8GB HP I saw at Walmart has "Gaming PC" printed on the box and for all intents and purposes it's not one out of the box. The standard bare minimum these days is 16GB if you don't want games constantly hammering the page file on your expensive SSD.  The "sweet spot" is 32GB  but it won't be long before that's not even enough and it really should be considered the bare minimum now. I don't think the average home or business user has any idea what's really involved in a true mid to high range gaming PC and for the mass marketers like HP to put stuff out there like that borders on deceptive advertising as far as I'm concerned. I get that most average model rails aren't hardcore gamers like I am but if they want performance beyond just web surfing, streaming video and text editing then they need to better educate themselves before buying because there's a lot of stuff out there that's not really what it says it is.

So you buy the extra RAM and install it.  Base model HP Omen, $730 + 2 sticks of 16GB DDR4-3200 SDRAM, about $73 apiece from Amazon for a total of $870.  

But really, you were looking at the base model...

https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/slp/hp-gaming

There are four models above the one you're bringing up, with one that has 32GB DDR4-3200 SDRAM already loaded.  Click on the Customize button and see for yourself.  Yes, you can buy it with 8GB of RAM - and you'd buy it for that to put in your own RAM!

I'd still prefer the Predator, of course, but I have been happy with Acer since 2007.  I have never been happy with Dell or HP, I have avoided all ownership of either my entire life.

--------------------------------------------------------

Benny's Index or Somewhere Chasing Rabbits

Reply 0
Michael Tondee

Not going to refute all that

Not going to refute all that point by point, I just don't have the time. I'll just say that everything I've said is my personal experience as a gamer who has been doing all this for a very long time, over thirty years now since I started some time in the mid to late 1980's playing text games. I've pretty much seen it all. I have to say, I do love how people keep trying to tell me I'm not saving money building my own PC's when my personal experience from the first PC I built on my own, a 486, to the gaming monster I have perched beside me here on my desk right now says otherwise. I guess I must be hallucinating or something!

As far as all the stuff you can do on mobile devices, yes they have a certain convenience factor, you can read MRH from a public bathroom if that's your choice but I still find them woefully inadequate for internet  access compared to a good desktop or laptop and will always choose the latter whenever it's available to me.

Finally, if you have to add memory to a "base model" of a PC to make it capable of playing most games out there then it's not a "gaming computer" straight out of the box and should not be advertised as one. I really don't understand how anyone can logically argue against that statement but here we are...

 

Michael, A.R.S. W4HIJ

 Model Rail, electronics experimenter and "mad scientist" for over 50 years.

Member of  "The Amigos" and staunch disciple of the "Wizard of Monterey"

My Pike: The Blackwater Island Logging&Mining Co.

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joef

Dumbed down mobile websites

Quote:

As far as all the stuff you can do on mobile devices, yes they have a certain convenience factor, you can read MRH from a public bathroom if that's your choice but I still find them woefully inadequate for internet access compared to a good desktop or laptop and will always choose the latter whenever it's available to me.

I do a lot of web browsing on my iPad and I find it’s plenty big for viewing the web from my easy chair. My iPhone's tiny screen, not so much.

What really irks me though, is how web developers dumb down a website on an iPad because it’s a mobile device. If they provide the option to get the desktop site view on my iPad, I will take it. Many sites don’t, however.

Because of this, many sites literally *force* you to use a laptop or desktop to get the full site features, so in that sense, Michael is absolutely right — you often *must* use a laptop or desktop to get adequate internet site access.

Having supervised web developers, I know “best practice” web design is to dumb down the site for phones and tablets, but I think that’s overdoing it for tablets. Another best practice I think that should always be practiced is to give folks the option to select the full desktop site anyway, especially with tablets.

Joe Fugate​
Publisher, Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine

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Read my blog

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Michael Tondee

I'm not on the go anymore

I will say, I'm probably not as "on the go" as most of you are. I had to retire early and except for running errands like going to the grocery store or taking myself and family to appointments I pretty much spend most of my time at home. In that case my desktop is just much more convenient for me than anything else even though I have both a tablet and a phone. The tablet is mostly used as an "extra control panel" for my flight and space sim games and the phone is for staying in touch and listening to audio books in the car while I'm running errands. Both are great for that but when I'm home and need internet access, the desktop here is going to win that battle every time.

BTW, my "easy chair" is this plush "gaming chair" I'm sitting in right now.  I even sometimes recline it and nap in it during the day. Don't go cheap on the chair! Take the money you save building you own rig and invest it in the chair!

Michael, A.R.S. W4HIJ

 Model Rail, electronics experimenter and "mad scientist" for over 50 years.

Member of  "The Amigos" and staunch disciple of the "Wizard of Monterey"

My Pike: The Blackwater Island Logging&Mining Co.

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greg ciurpita gregc

vote for lenovo

when i retired (2017), i paid $1k for a lenovo t460s just like i had a work and moved all my personal stuff to it.   last year i replaced it for ~$200 because of various problems, the last be a key failure.   it runs windows 10 and  i think it performs very well.   windows pop up quickly, web pages update quickly.  i can close the lid and re-open it and it restores the screen just as i left it.  it take ~minute to startup.

but i know nothing about the differences between PCs.   for all i know the lenovo t450s runs like a dog.  if i had to buy a new different laptop i'd look for one with similar or + specs: i7 core, 2.6 gHz, 12 gB ram, 240G disk

i recently tried fixing someone's laptop that ran slower than a galcier.   i could only make it run like molasses.   have no idea why.

years ago a blew up a 386 mother board.   the shop where i got a replacement said the board/processor combination ran better with less than max memory.   

all i can suggest is if you know someone who has a decent running pc/laptop get the same either new or used of ebay.

 

greg - LaVale, MD     --   MRH Blogs --  Rocky Hill Website  -- Google Site

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