Close enough for jazz...

Pretty darn close!

That doesn't look like any of

That doesn't look like any of my model rr articulated container car joins ?
 

Thought I might find something here,...but can't interpret this yet
https://www.trackopedia.info/encyclopedia/railway-vehicles/types-of-bogies

Allowing for limitations

Allowing for limitations imposed by scale, material, and the need to operate over a much tighter turning radius than the prototype, it looks like all of mine. 
 

Put some colorful, unique containers in them and no one will even look at the connections, much less notice any disparities.

Sometimes you need to stop counting rivets and enjoy the view.

Some photos of that

Some photos of that articulated truck arrangement from Athearn, then Walthers,...

Athearn
 

Walthers,..
 

Snugness Concern, NOT Rivet Counting

Perhaps you are under the wrong impression,...I am NOT a rivet counter, and I am NOT addressing that aspect.

What I am concerned with is the snugness of that fit in our model connections,...that might be contributing to my derail observations when backing these cars thru turnouts.

I have more than a dozen of

I have more than a dozen of the Walthers cars in N scale, and have no issues whatsoever backing them through Atlas Code 55 and Kato turnouts. I have endless trouble running through unmodified Peco turnouts because of the too-wide flangeways. The problem is more likely the turnouts than the cars.

ScaleTrains cars

I found this subject thread with lots of pictures of ScaleTrain's cars, but did not know how to link to that particular postng,...so here is a link, and a few of the photos,..

https://atlasrescueforum.proboards.com/thread/8601/scaletrains-trinity-backpacker-car

https://a4.pbase.com/o12/79/520479/1/171277408.mFfosr2A.20201214_110641.jpg

https://a4.pbase.com/o12/79/520479/1/171277409.ati9MtJC.20201214_110703.jpg

https://a4.pbase.com/o12/79/520479/1/171277410.AKHkV8RX.20201214_110732.jpg

https://a4.pbase.com/o12/79/520479/1/171277414.QEZDUp10.20201214_110857.jpg

Their 'upright pin' does not appear to have that conical shape of the others?
EDITED: ...nor overall height. Perhaps this allows for a bit more 'freedom of movement' at this joint??

Flangeways of Pecos

@barr_ceo,

I have no doubt that some of what you say about the Peco flangeways is true,,,I've learned even more about this with my LARGE selection of Pecos on my new layout. I've even shimmed up a lot of the guard rails on my Pecos.

But one of the things that has me asking why this is so prevalent with these articulate container cars, while that same track/turnout arrangement does NOT present problems with a LOT of other freight cars. 

Weight, Brian?

Are your articulated cars weighted to, or above, NMRA standards, or are you rolling them empty?  I ran the Athearn cars for a time on my old layout, and they only ever settled down when I had a container in them with a bunch of pennies to bring up the car weight.  

Blair

It's not so much the weight

It's not so much the weight as the increased freedom of movement of the trucks. It's easier for them to be pushed a little out of line because of the geometry of the articulation, and it doesn't make any difference if they're moving forward or back - it's the facing point relative to direction of movement that's the problem, and the out-of-NMRA-spec wide flangeways allow the truck to pick the point. This is especially true of the more modern low-profile wheelsets.

After years of fighting this issue with PECO turnouts, a number of N-Trak clubs have trashed the PECO turnouts in their setup yards and replaced them all with Kato Unitrack.

The N Scale Walthers cars are right on NMRA RP weight, and run beautifully empty, with cardstock containers, plastic containers, or cast metal flatracks.

... until they meet a facing point PECO turnout.

Fortunately, I spend almost all my time on T-Trak now, and Kato is the standard for that.

It may be the joint and not just the truck mounting

When I look at the photo of the HO cars, I wonder how well the cars enable the classic "3 point suspension" that we use for non-articulated cars, where one truck is tightened so it only pivots, and the other is looser so it and the car can sway in slightly different directions.

For the articulated cars, the equivalent would be that the two joined cars would be able to sway somewhat independently of each other.  Do the Athearn and Walthers joints allow that?

If not, it might make sense to slightly ease the joint - probably more the part of the upper connector that wraps around the lower connector, and not the hole in the upper connector itself.  The trick here would be doing it so the cars stay connected, and each car is connected rigidly enough to one truck that it doesn't sway excessively.

-- Steve

3-point suspension

Yes, Steve that was the first though that entered my mine. I began to try adjust the tightness of the trucks as a first experiment,...though I arrived at a solution, but subsequently discovered I had not solved everything.

What end of a single car does one allow the more loosely tightened truck? or does one look at the two car (or multiple car) arrangement to accomplish some sort of 3-point suspension??

That's when I began to take a closer look at the 'freedom of movements' at this articulation joint. Both the conical shaped base and the height of that central pin come into question. The conical base certainly allows for free swing movement, but if the 'upright pin' is too tall or too tight, the freedom of movement is definitely affected,...both bending wise between cars, and swaying/tipping wise.

Is the conical base really needed? The new ScaleTrain models doesn't seem to think so.

Is the fit around that vertical pin really need to be that firm, or is a more tolerate fit better??

You're overthinking this. I

You're overthinking this.

I use a 2-56 machine screw to both hold the truck and provide the pivot on my articulated cars. Again, no issues.

The problem is the turnouts. Until you address that, you're going to have problems no matter what you do to the cars or trucks. Shimming some of the turnouts is pointless...  you need to fix ALL of them.

It sounds like you're in denial about where the real problem lays. Not liking the answer won't make it any less true.

Am I looking at this

Am I looking at this correctly or not? 

It does NOT appear to me that this connection between the 2 is centered on the centerline of the rail cars,...or even the center of that bolster truck?? It appears to be on the nearside??

.

No you're not looking at it.

The pivot point will absolutely be directly over the kingpin at the centre of the truck. But those support "fins" (for lack of better word) are to either side of the pivot. Those are NOT the pivot; the pivot is in between them, and the "fins" are paired on each side of the pivot. They don't connect the cars together they keep the body from rocking.

Look at your model photos you posted in the 4th comment on the first page of this thread. See the same thing with the bits that stick out on either side of the pivot.

I sure would like to see what

I sure would like to see what the pivot pin and receptacle looks like on the prototype. ,...and perhaps a full description of the parts in that photo and how they work. I wasn't able to find that on the internet??

what the pivot pin and receptacle looks like on the prototype?

If you know where nearby crew changes take place you'd have a few minutes to look at them. Generally a pin right in the middle and some kind of bearing surfaces around it....DaveB 

I'd be a bit leary of poking

I'd be a bit leary of poking around a train stopped on the mainline these days...   you're  liable to get a visit from some folks remarkably lacking in the sense of humor department.

One would think it should

One would think it should show up on the internet somewhere?

2 Long Car Experiments

2 Long Car Experiments

Okay as I have admitted, the Peco guard rails across from the frogs do need to be shimmed. But I hesitate in some cases because I have some locos and a few cars with those larger 'pizza cutter wheels' that I wish to run on this layout. I will shim those that I find are really necessary, but I don't want to just blanket accuse the turnouts ONLY.

Lets look at several other situations. What if I want to run a few of these long cars (autoracks, extra capacity boxcars,...
 

They are close to the length of 2 of those 40 foot container cars. If I were to tighten up the truck screws on both ends of those long cars, I'd be willing to bet they would be really prone to derailing,...stiffness/rigid over that length between the trucks. It might even be even worst if I were to couple 2 of those long cars together while leaving their trucks in a firm tightness ( although the couplers between these 2 might allow some non-rigid compliance)
 

My point is those rigid long cars will derail very easily if all the trackwork is not PERFECTLY FLAT, regardless of the width of those flangeways. To reinforce my observations I then loosened up the screws on one end of those 2 long cars, and they both with thru that same Peco curved turnout with NO derailments,..both forward and backwards numerous times (and that same Peco turnout that gave me problems before does NOT have any shims at this time).

My point is those rigid long

::

With the wide flangways, it's NOT "perfectly flat" The wide gap allows the wheel to drop into the frog, and pick the point of the frog.

< < sighs   

Until you fix that, NOTHING is going to improve,.

And the solution for your pizza cutter wheels is the same in HO as it was in N.... replace them.

The wide gap allows the wheel

Good point. ....And shimming the guard rail will NOT prevent that drop of the wheel in the frog void. The shimming just acts to keep that inner wheel from going off on the wrong side of the frog,..or onto the top surface of the frog.

Interesting to consider what this dip in the wheel of that truck does to the car going thru the turnout, particularly depending on the firmness with which the truck is attached to the car,...2 cars in the case of an articulated truck.
 

An interesting slide deck

Here's a presentation slide deck I found that has some detailed truck images.  The triangular pieces you see in the photo above aren't the pivot connection, but rather the side bearing supports that keep the car from rocking side to side.  Unlike our models where the truck only touches the body at the center kingpin, the prototypes maintain contact with the car at 3 points along the bolster - the kingpin and both side bearings - to give them a "6-point" suspension.

https://www.wheel-rail-seminars.com/archives/2015/pc-papers/PC-06%20May19PrinciplesCourse_7.pdf

Craig

.

Hmm, you don't say.... If your track sucks, your train performance sucks...

(Sorry if that sounds harsh, but yeah, you gotta fix track issues like that if you're ever going to be happy. Rough, unlevel, humped track through turnouts is going to give you a bad time.)