How Long?

1 year, 1 month, and 16 days inlcuding a review by Layout Vision. Finally, I am ready to build.

Several years ...

I spent from, about 1984 - 1989 working on hypothetical spaces and track plans for those spaces.

Once I finally got a real layout space in Feb of 1991, it took me 5 months from move in day to the start of layout construction.

All that planning against hypothetical spaces really paid off. Once I had a real space, I knew exactly what I wanted to do with it, so I did 2 or 3 plan variations over 5 months, settled on the variation I liked, and never looked back. The layout I have today is very close to the final variation I went with, and I'm still quite satisfied with it.

Don't Forget the Garage

What Joe didn't say is he wanted even more space than his basement offered so he convinced his wife the garage wasn't well suited for holding cars so it too should become layout space. We know how many times those durn contractors build garages that just don't work well for cars. < wink wink> You must be one heck of a salesman Joe.

Well, you gotta see our house placement

You gotta see our house placement to understand. The house has a daylight basement configuration and is placed into the side of a slope. The front yard and house entrance go to the upper floor, while the driveway slopes steeply down to the garage on the lower floor. The back of our van would bottom out on the driveway when entering the garage - that sucker is *steep* ... my contention was the garage wasn't really practical as a garage and she agreed.

So now the garage is sealed, insulated, and heated floorspace just like the rest of the house and I put in a hallway along one side that connected the house to the utility room with a carpeted, heated hallway. Previously you had to go through the unheated garage to get to the utility.

So she got a bennie as well.

Time & Technology

The time spent depends on you goals. I am working on designing some buildings for my future steel mill. All are high-tech but limited in regards to drawings. The direct reduced iron furnace I posted recently has been under research, contemplation, design, re-design...for about three years. And this is only one component of a layout!

I would suggest your first task would be to acquire a CAD for track design. Start with drawing several table configurations for templates, and then dive into track layout. I gave up on paper scale drawings some time ago. Some programs will actually generate a bill of materials to aid in buying.

Stogie

If you are like me, you should just build something.

After you have run on it for a while you will decide if you like it or not and what you would rather do instead.  I started in a one car garage back about 1980, moved to a different house in 1989, started to build something in my garage that got no where, and finally have a spare bedroom since my youngest daughter got married where I can build an "L" shaped switching layout.  In the meantime, I joined a model railroad club and found out that I don't care at all about continuous running. 

How long

I pondered about my plan quite a bit, adding and substracting. Started with a lot of photocopies (all at the same scale) of plans I liked, taking bits here and there into a design I liked. Then I made a 1/10 3D scale model of it (cardboard with a photocopy of my best idea) and put all the grades and bits of wood and card to represent structures. More fiddling until finally IT WAS BORN!!. The whole thing took several months because was done B.C. (Before Computers). Today copy and paste will surely get you there faster, but I would still make the 3D model. A lot of things will become apparent at this step.

Alternatives to CAD

Or not.

For someone considering a single smaller layout only for themsleves in an already-defined space, the hours spent learning CAD might be better invested in building a foundation of prototype understanding and knowledge of layout design best practices. IMHO, of course.

I've to agree with Byron,

I've to agree with Byron, despite myself have spend some time like Joe in the planning stage waiting to have the proper space to build my dream! But... I use CAD daily and don't have to spend big time on the learning curve of the tool. In addition, my time during plan development was spend also to gain historical knowledge on my subject, research pictures, names, history of buildings and industries in the area, build in my mind a correct point-of-view about traffic and operations.... etc, aside to experiment different solutions for the layout and discover what was best for me and what was not possible. So, for a room-size layout I still thing software tools are of great help.

For smaller layout, here a short story:
I've a friend that start a shelf layout based on another friend desig: well... he end up to discover that don't fit well in the house and family needs and more important ... he don't like the design when he operate it! So put everything in the garage! After a year, discussing reasons why he leave the hobby except take parts to some Op.sessions on friends layouts, I suggest to buy some Kato Unitrack sectionals and experiment with it different design. We take some discussions about the basic foundations of tracks design and last Christmass holidays he setup two modules and start to experiment. .... He's now back in this hobby with great satisfaction and plan to replace sectionals with flex and handlayed turnouts!

First = Have fun!

Cheers

Thanks

Thanks LKand O and Russ for your input always read your comments as you both appear very knowledgeable on the posts.

Joe .. I'm 64 and although I certainly hope that I will be still around in 6 years time, I would really like to be playing with my trains before then ..lol. Added to which I've just got your Tenmile Creek videos and I'm itching to put your ideas into place on my layout.

Byron thanks for your advice .. although I must admit I had to google  what IMHO meant ( I'm presuming it's in my humble opinion) I will try and find some sites showing me the prototype trackwork for what I want.

Enzo .. I like the story ... I am enjoying the learning experience and having fun.

Steve

Byron's Advice

I have read countless places where Byron advises folks to become knowledgeable in the operations of a model railroad as it is not necessarily 100% parallel to how a proto railroad may operate due to the greatly reduced size and other constraints of our miniature railroads. The same applies to proto track arrangements per Byron. The advice is usually followed by the recommendation to operate at a club to gain experience.

While I am certain no better advice has ever been offered it is not always an option or the desired path for some modelers. What process does one follow to create a layout that constitutes a reasonable representation of the prototype yet offers the optimal operations potential as a model?

Many experienced people, Byron included, have the ability to look at a design and critique it. Byron did so with mine and I am quite pleased with the result. However, developing the design prior to Byron's eyes ever falling upon it was a wandering lost in the woods adventure for me. Even with all the reading of popular and respected track design books, articles, etc what I lacked and suspect many other people do also is a holistic systematic approach to layout design.

The person that provides this will be my new hero. (and I suspect make a bit of coin too)

CAD - Or Not

I'll add another recommendation to learn about what it is you're trying to build before messing with CAD.  Designing a successful layout and using a CAD program involve very different sets of knowledge and skills.  I don't use CAD for designing my layouts or those of others' I've helped, but I can see how useful it can be for creating scale diagrams once a general design of the layout has been reached.

I recently attended a meeting where a relative newbie was asking for a clinic on layout design, and specifically thought CAD was the way for him to learn about that.  I spoke up quickly and directed him to the topic on Byron's site http://www.layoutvision.com/id40.html, and fortunately other experienced modelers at the meeting backed me up.  We have another guy I'm "working on" who has put a lot of hours into designing a completely unbuildable basement-sized layout using CAD, and hasn't quite seen the fatal design flaws in his plan in part because everything fits in the software.  Maybe he'll come around when we mock up some of the problem areas in full scale.

Learn the basics of design first, and only then, if you must, learn CAD.

Ok, so maybe...

Ok so maybe CAD is not the answer. Some of you offer darn good reasons against. I work so much in CAD, part of brain seems to be electronic.

Definitely check out clubs and prototype operations. I made an engineer's presumption that you already had some knowledge of ops. The reason behind my suggestion for CAD is cost. You do not have to buy track while you play with various concepts. Also, and I may be wrong on this too, but I think a couple programs allow you to run a train. Not sure if this is correct and if it is how detailed you can get. If you do go the CAD route, I would recommend assembling the track after it is designed and just push a few cars over it, as you envisioned the operations.

Stogie

XTrack CAD

XTrack CAD was really easy to learn and it's free.

The first thing to do

is get yourself a copy of John Armstrongs "Track planning for realistic operation".

This book will tell you everything you need to know to get started on planning your layout.

Anyone can learn to use a CAD program and make "nice looking" plans but you need to understand WHY tracks are arranged in particular ways etc.

Cheers

Steve

Track planning is a hobby in

Track planning is a hobby in itself. To read - all those books that are listed here, magazines on track planning, blogs - and doodling different projects that might or might not become reality is something I really enjoy.

I have used a simple CAD-program (Raily 2.01) that was easy to learn. The reason I use it is mainly that I find it difficult to draw turnouts accurately, and I always end up being too optimistic when drawing by hand. If it's worth it or not to lern a CAD-program depends a lot on how quickly you usually lern to handle computer programs, and on how complicated it is.

I said that track planning is a very enjoyable hobby, but still it can't beat the feeling of actually building. I spent one year planning before I started to build. The details still change, and that's ok with me. I get to combine track planning with layout construction!!

How Long Can You?

You answered that question by giving away your age Steve!  I spent 4 or 5 months just sketching ideas for my givens and druthers.  Finally, I just copied what I liked from other's ideas and started laying track.  I made what I wanted....most of all, LIKED, fit into the space I have.  My thought is that I am doing what I like and that is the building of that "dream". You can pound your head against the wall with CAD and graph paper and not get anywhere (that's me).  Or, you can get the material for the first few feet of bench work, track and wiring and see what happens with whats in your head.  Oh and when you get to that stage...use screws and nails...avoid glue.  Chances are you will be making changes like you did on paper.

Good Luck!

John

Merrill, WI

Every track has a reason

The secret is learning that every track has a reason for being there and "looking cool" is not one of them.

Reading John Armstrong's "Track Planning for Realistic Operation" will help you along this journey of getting this knowledge, as will running on other layouts.

When I do a track plan these days, every time I draw a line on the plan, I'm visualizing in my mind the equipment running on that track and *why* it would be on that track.

When you get to that level of understanding, track planning becomes a very productive exercise. I personally found the journey of learning to think of track planning in operational terms a very satisfying and fun journey - but it's not something that will come overnight.

If you don't think you've got the patience to go through this learning curve before starting on your dream layout, then it makes perfect sense to pay someone who *has* gone through this learning to develop/critique your track planning for you.

Regardless, I do see value in chainsaw layouts - a small layout or module you build with the idea that it's a throw-away learning testbed.

I agree with Joe.

My first layout was a modification of one from an Atlas track planning book.  It's main feature was a continuous run with a yard and a couple of sidings.  I made one modification to the yard, and had some problems with derailments if I went through too fast.  I had an "S" curve between a turnout and the mainline.  I was able to overcome that problem, but I found out that I liked switching industries much more than watching my trains run in circles.  I've even found at modular club set ups that I would rather switch out cars on a fellow club member's module than run around on the mainline no matter how big our set up is.

That is why I reccomend the "chain saw."  You may like your first layout, but if you don't, building it with the idea of taking it apart and rebuilding isn't a bad way to start.  I would never have discovered how much I enjoyed switching out industries if I hadn't joined a modular club and done some switching on a fellow club member's module.

LKandO

Did Layout Vision do the review free?

Adam 

Layout Vision Review

No, there was a pre-agreed upon charge however it was worth every penny.

Planning full scale

If you have a small footprint layout, I would suggest getting some switches and making photocopies of them.  Then buy a couple pieces of flex track.  If you are really el-cheapo by one hand of a switch, scan it and then flip the image to make the other hand.  Use the full scale switch sizes and the flex track to lay out switch locations on the benchwork.  If you want cut some brown paper to put on the benchwork and then as you get arrangements you like trace or glue the switch copies to the full size track plan.  You can set actual model cars, engines or buildings on the benchwork to test out track capcities, views, reach room, etc. 

Good idea Dave

That's more or less what I ended up doing .. a couple of points(switches) and some flexi track .. playing around with them and I think I have  cracked my track plan ... I've had to leave out the 90 cross ... but I'm pleased with what I have so far ... thanks for the advice ... now to purchase the rest of the track.

Steve