First Problem Discovery

I decided to give them a little test on my peninsula container yard track. I hooked up two together and ran them by hand thru the end of the yard with a 3-way Peco turnout at its end,...

I was totally surprised at the multiple derailments that occurred with the wheels of the shared truck between the 2 cars,...and mostly when I was pushing them thru in the diverging track direction. Surely the short length of these cars, and their heavy weight would have prevented this? And after all,.... my 48' plastic framed container cars did NOT seem to have any such problems??

As I investigated more closely I determined that the nice metal wheels and trucks of the trucks trailing the first truck were actually picking the frog point of that 3-way turnout. Adding some weight (or extra downward pressure) did not always alleviate the situation (as John Garity has noted on another forum).

One solution that appeared to help was a slight loosening of the truck screw on the one that appeared to want to climb the frog point. That helped,...but I fear is not the ultimate solution.



I think the best solution is going to be the shimming of that guard rails across from the frog. These Peco turnouts just have too wide of a slot there as has been discussed in a number of other threads. The slightly tighter slot keeps the truck from picking the frog point.

So I have decided to shim all of my Peco 3-ways,...I have a total of at least 5 Peco ones on my layout, and at least 3 Roco ones. (the Roco ones have not presented themselves as a problem yet).



I underlined that posting above as I believe the adjustment of the truck screw might have as big a detrimental effect as the too-wide slot in the turnouts.


I'm now thinking that these new container cars that I had received came with their trucks rather tightly bound up from their factory assemble process,..and thus needed to be loosened up a little on one end, ....the coupler end in particular, as the other end is riding on that fixed pivot pin.?


When I loosened up on that truck's screw it made things a lot better. It made me think this idea might just be applicable to other container cars we might purchase new,...some fine tuning.

Anyone else experience such a problem with container cars?

Wheels

Did you check to see if the wheels are correctly in gauge?

Sometimes pizza cutters are

Sometimes pizza cutters are your friend.

After fully checking the wheelsets, you know the drill, looking at the bearing surface the truck is turning on is a good bet. I've seen flash on spacers, the mounting hole in the truck being rough and out of round, course threads on the mounting screw, etc., all of which hurt the free turning of the truck. And after any cleanup some powdered graphite doesn't hurt.

Checked Wheel Gauges, checked bearing surfaces

I checked the wheel gauges at least 4 different times,...and inspected the bearing surfaces between cars. That all seemed correct.

I had another 3-way that feeds my freight yard that gave me problems as well. I have now shimmed the guard rails on both of those Peco 3-ways. That seems to help, but still experience problem just on occasion.

Backing Problem

On another forum a gentleman posted this,...

That seems to be very true,...PUSHING cars thru those turnouts and curves presents greater problems  !!

Shimming Peco Guard Rails

Surprisingly my container yard tracks don't have any radi less than 24". The slip switch at the entrance has minimum of 24", and the double curves even greater at 60" and 30". The 3-way at the exit is minimum 24",...and of course as you pointed out I would not be able to run a multi-unit of these cars onto that 'escape track'.

What I discovered at first were that they were derailing primarily when I ran than (2 of them) in the reverse direction ( from the points end) thru that 3-way. At first I assumed the cars were picking the frog due to the excessive flangeway width of the Peco. But on much closer inspection I actually found that the tightness of trucks combined with the stiffness of the cars frame was actually causing the 'leading truck wheels' to lift just barely leading to the point picking. Loosening up on that truck's pivot screw seemed to solve things. I just had not thought of this problem existing with unit-container cars before this.

I decided to add the shims to that Peco 3-way as I had noticed that its 24" diverging radius could cause some point picking with some of my steam engines, and even while I do not expect to be operating any long steam engines thru that turnout, I just thought the best part of caution,  I might as well shim it.

3-Point Suspension

Back a number of years ago when I was first reentering the hobby, I recall getting a magazine that dealt with tips and hints.  I went looking for a copy the other day. I could not find it even while I knew I had at least 2 copies of it !!

I'm pretty sure that is where I first read of the '3-point suspension' concept that was almost touted as a rule.

I was trying to find that magazine to verify exactly how they described it. I also did a little searching on this forum, and was rather surprised i did NOT find too many references to 'this rule' ?

When I started experiencing my problems with derailments of those new metal framed container cars, that 3-point suspension idea came to mind,....

Several questions come to mind.
1) Is this 'rule' totally applicable to all our freight cars?
2) Is this rule applicable to our container cars, and particularly ones with shared trucks between cars?

(our double-stack container cars can have considerable weight up top that might need tighter trucks to keep them from rocking so much)

3-Point Suspension

I found these two older references,....

I've never had much success

I've never had much success with 3-point suspension, especially since I used to run mostly on modular layouts where trackwork wasn't always perfect.  I end up with a pseudo-3-point suspension where all trucks can both rock and pivot, but one truck has more rock than the other.  The key is to have enough rock for the trucks to navigate track, but not too much that the car constantly leans.

For mfrs like Walthers that have a screw shoulder for the truck screw, sometimes it's impossible to tighten the screw enough.  For that, I carefully file down the shoulder enough to be able to tighten the truck and then back off.

For multi-platform cars, I make sure all trucks have some rock just because of the dynamics of articulated cars.

Sometimes the screw shoulder splits (common on older Walthers kits) which can cause the truck to bind.  If this happens, I'll cut the shoulder off and make a new one from the screw shoulder of a Kadee #5 coupler box.

Craig

Photos of my technique for 3-point suspension.

Here's some photos showing my technique for 3-point suspension. A little bit of work to make it happen. Much smoother operation. Much more reliable operation too! I've been using this technique since the '80s with great success.

~~Greg Komar

https://gregkomar.smugmug.com/Trains-Large-Small/Installs/HO-Scale-3-Point-Suspension/

I have got to try that.

" Photos of my technique for 3-point suspension."

And where is the "like" button on this thing?

Two Different Wheel Sizes

BTW, I discovered there were 2 different wheel sizes utilized on this 5 car set,..surprised me. The trucks at either end of the 5 car set utilize 33" wheels, and the wheels between the inner linked cars are 38"

I discovered this when I attempted to switch around a few of the trucks in my attempts at 'balancing/tuning-up' these cars.

Point rails

I would try filing the point rail tops at a slight angle to allow a smooth transition from the stock rails.  Eliminate the area of concern and that should fix it.   

Two sizes of wheels

Just in case you are wondering, that's prototypical, as the center trucks have to carry more weight than the end ones.

Track Testing Cars

These Walthers metal container cars have become my 'track testing cars'. By that I mean if I wish to find defects in my track work. I just need to back a string of these cars over that section of tracks.turnouts,..invariable one of the adjoining trucks (or even leading truck) will find the problem,..often showing up at the frog of a turnout. I continue to be surprised how easily these cars can derail.

I have now come to another question of tuning these cars. I am beginning to question the 'stiffness' of the connection between these cars that are sharing a single truck. On the metal Walthers cars it does appear as though 'pin and hole' connection may be a little too tight resulting in an added rigidness between cars that makes them act as a much longer stiff car (that can lift one corner excessively).

I think I first need to learn the vocabulary of these joints so I can discuss them more intelligently, My first google brought me here,...  https://www.trackopedia.info/encyclopedia/railway-vehicles/types-of-bogies

Articulated Joint on Model RR Container Cars

Are the articulated joints utilized on our model rr cars true to the prototypes,...I suspect NOT??

I'm surprised I have not found more negative discussions about such a problem??

Adding Extra Weight to Container Cars

There are many instantaneous where we need to add some extra weight to our container cars. Just adding containers themselves is often not enough. And the very open frame nature of these cars does not lend itself to finding a place to hide that extra weight.

I did see a suggestion about  securing the containers on board using those small magnets if one wanted to be able to selectively 'unload the container car,..or if they found those tiny locking pins did not line up just right. I thought this was a reasonable idea,...and particularly to hold a second container mounted on top, in place .

These Walthers metal framed cars seem to have enough weight to travel unloaded,...but what about those many other plastic cars?

One thought goes to adding the weight to the bottom container. But many of those containers are closed plastic boxes that have no seam to open up to put in weights. Just wondering what other solutions have been tried with adding weight to those containers themselves??

ADDING WEIGHT TO CONTAINER CARS

Here is an excellent submission offered on another forum about adding weight to our container cars.

Quote:

As I posted, I take the containers apart. Older ones are not glued and are easier. I noticed that newer ones from Walther's are glued and have to taken apart gently using an Exacto knife or a single-edge razor blade.

Here's an example of a 40' Athearn container using Walther's Goo to hold the 14¢ inside.

I use half as much on 20' containers.

On this one I added a piece of styrene down the center since the outer ribs are a little far apart.

Here's a Walther's 40' container that has no ribs on the floor.

Since on my layout, 53' domestic containers normally go on top, they get only 9¢. Keeps the loads from becoming too top-heavy.

I do two other things to all containers. I drill out the paint/plastic from the four small holes in the top, so they nest together more easily. And I use Woodland Scenics "Scenic Accents Glue" when reassembling. Keeps the bottoms from falling out when I rotate containers from one car to another. Since it is "repositionable" glue, it's easy to take them apart again if anything comes loose. That only happens if I used super glue to attach the pennies to begin with.

Things that I have observed on the trains coming out of the BNSF Alliance Intermodal Yard over the years. Most cars have 40' containers on the bottom. 20' containers go on the bottom. If stacked at all, they are only stacked on other 20' containers. They are never stacked on anything longer. Fully loaded 20' tanks normally have nothing stacked on top of them due to the weight of the liquid in them. They never stack a 40' container on top of a longer one, whether it be 45', 48', or 53'. 45 footers are pretty much obsolete any more. International containers are only 20' and 40'. Domestic containers can be any length, but the load bearing pillars are always 40' apart.
Hope that this helps.

 

Willie