Boorim motors

For the most  seems early models use canon can motor

Howard Zane use nearly exclusively Boorim transmission for his huge fleet of brass locomotive on his fabulous Piedmont Division in HO scale

In a recent article in MR he told most of his locomotives are tuned with Boorim transmission and Faulhaber motor, some with geared head

Myself, I have used Faulhaber motors with gearhead for some repowering of N scale model with first rate result

The gearhead is a clever way to slow down ratio without altering the stock transmission, most of the time seems the 1/4 ratio is the best to use

Marc,Thanks. What does

Marc,

Thanks. 

What does "geared head" mean.

I have two Boo Rim models that are my finest smoothest running locos. I got them in the early 2000s. 2655 is from Overland and the 5250 is from Division Point.

I have an old Ajin Precision model by Overland and I want to replace the motor in it. The motor is starting to hesitate for a fraction of a second at times at low speeds. At first I thought it may be the gears or wheels, but disconnected the motor and could see the motor hesitating in one spot.

Gearhead motors

Dear Deem,

A "Gearhead" motor is typically a can-motor with some form of reduction gearbox (spur, planetary, whatever) semi-permanently mounted on the end. They are typically of decent quality, and while having "normal" 12VDC motor Volt and Amp specs electrically, they come "out of the box" with higher-torque and lower-output-shaft RPM physical performance specs. The gearbox geartrain can also either work as a semi-flywheel, or a power-soak, depending on it's precision and quality.

Just one example of a larger "gearhead" motor, sold by MicroMark as an Animation or slo-mo turnout motor

One of the benefits of the "gearhead" technique is that it allows "gearhead micromotors" to be created,
IE there are motors which appeal on the basis of their tiny size, but commonly do not have the torque required to actually work as a locomotive motor. Add a Gearhead gearbox however, and that "perfect size but too-weak" motor becomes a "compact powerhouse" option...

Examples and further reading

https://www.faulhaber.com/en/products/precision-gearheads/

https://www.motioncontroltips.com/introducing-maxons-micro-motor-gearhead/

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

PS In terms of your "need a motor replacement" brass locos,
sure a Faulhaber, Portescap, or similar "precision gearhead" could be swapped in
(with the typical level of model RRer tweaking   ),

but one has to be careful, sometimes swapping in a gearhead motor (with notably lower Max RPM spec),
results in an oily-smooth running loco with a top speed significantly _less_ than what you'd expect or hope!

Prof Kylzir, As always, a

Prof Kylzir,

As always, a great informative post. Thanks. I'll soon have more questions for you.

I'm going to check out the links now.

sounds perfect... for my

sounds perfect... for my Sperry Rail car! Did those things ever exceed 20mph?

CandOfan, I wonder if that

CandOfan,

I wonder if that was the speed limit for branch lines back in the mid fifties.

More than 20

C&Ofan, a lot of the older Sperry cars were originally gas electric cars used in passenger service by the railroads. Sperry rebuilt and equipped them for Sperry's purposes, usually repowering them with diesel prime movers in the process. All of that to say that they were quite capable of speeds over 20 mph.

I don't know what speed was run while testing rail.

Can gear head motors source

Since Mashima is out of business the most successful source for top  quality gear head motor is Faulhaber

They are a bit pricy but with first rate quality gear and motor 

There are several size to choice from even tiny motors under 10mm diameter and 30 mm lenght with gear head which are very powerful and top performers 

Many user suggest a 1/4 reduction as a basis to be connected to an existing transmission to obtain very slow speed and no meteor high speed 

Marc, I just watched some

Marc,

I just watched some videos of locos with Faulhaber motors in them; quite impressive and run slow and smooth like my Boo Rim models I have. My old Overland Ajin loco used to run like that.

The Buhler motor that is in the Ajin model is 36mm L, 24mm H, and 18.25 W; hopefully I can find something close to this size.

What does 1/4 reduction mean? 

For the steam locomotives in

For the steam locomotives in question in the first post you don't need coreless motors with gearheads. You'll find coreless motors in the fitting rpm range without gearhead.

NWSL still offers replacement motors: https://nwsl.com/collections/motors-flywheels
/> These motors provide rpm mostly in the 10k to 13k range.

While Mashima motors are out of produktion the still can be found in internet: http://www.roundbell.com/MashimaCanMotors.html

Canon motors are still a possible choice: https://prec.canon/en/products/ironcore.html

Then you have Mineba and Mitsumi motors: https://www.eminebea.com/en/product/rotary/brushmotor/dc/
/> https://www.mitsumi.co.jp/latest/Catalog/compo/motorav/index_e.html

Look for the largest fitting 12 V motor in the above mentioned rpm range. Watch the shaft diameters.

There was an extensive remotoring discussion here in 2019. Some of the links I copied from there: https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/37779?page=3
/> Regards, Volker

Deem, in O scale, Boo Rim models…….

……… made for Glacier Park use Maxon motors (a Swiss made high quality motor) 

Peter

Volker,Thanks, I find this

Volker,

Thanks, I find this somewhat overwhelming and thanks for the links. I'll look them over.

I found this also, but have no idea how to fill out the drive selection requirements.

https://www.faulhaber.com/en/products/dc-motors/faulhaber-s-g/

Let alone how to fill this out:

https://www.faulhaber.com/en/driveselection/fdst/form/176958/

Now this is the type of motor

Now this is the type of motor I want, but it is a tad too big for my model.

Hey Deem, you swiped one of my videos!!….

This is about the best running conversion I’ve ever made. There is a “rest of the story” to it though. At the time, I had no layout finished enough to run anything. While it ran like a Swiss watch on the test rollers and test track, once I had the layout built enough to run some of the locomotives pulling cars, I found problems that did not exist on the test bench. I’m sure this is a common problem. This particular engine would not pull a 5 car train up a 2 1/2 % grade!  I kept taking off cars and ended up with it not being able to pull ITSELF up the grade!!!!  The motor was stalling out (not spinning the wheels) due to a lack of torque. I have learned from this experience. Not all Faulhaber are equal and always do a real world test before considering the project done!  Good thing I didn’t sell this to someone once it was done!!  That would have been most embarrassing!

Peter

Deemiorgos: I found this

I wouldn't fill out anything: On a Faulhaber motor type the first two number show the can's diameter the last two the can's length. A type 1624 has 16 mm diameter and is 24 mm long.

I'd measure the largest dimensions that fit and look for a motor size that is close. The data sheet on the linked website show the rpm at 12 V. In our example type 1624 the no-load rpm as 13,000. That would fit I think though at at the upper end of the usefull range. Rated current at 12 V is 0.22 A, the output with 75% efficiency is 2 W.

Everything else on the data sheet is nice to know but not essential. If you choose the motor with the largest fitting diameter you get the best torque.

The motor in the video is a Faulhaber 2342S012CR: 23 mm diameter, 42 mm long, 12 V, no-load rpm 8,300, power 17 W. https://www.glockenankermotor.com/dc-kleinstmotoren-faulhaber/2342...cr-faulhaber/452/faulhaber-motor-2342s012cr

You don't need 17 W for your locomotives. I have a Tenshodo HO GN L-1 2-6-6-2 repowered with a Maxon motor of 4.5 W.

If a 22 mm diameter motor fits the type 2230 12 V provides 9,500 rpm, 0.4 A rated current, and about 4 W @83% efficiency. The real power would be lower but still sufficient.
Gruß, Volker

Peter, glad I came across

Peter, glad I came across your video. This is exactly what is happening with my Mikado on the test bench; and layout. So the motor in your video performed well on the test track, but not on the layout?

This is the motor you have:

So what motor did you end up using in your brass loco?

I love the motors in my Boo Rim models, but haven't taken the shells off them to see what actual motors are in them.

Gearhead gotcha...

Dear Deem,

Just a quick note, it's rare to find a true "gearhead" motor with double-ended shafts,
that would require a dbl-ended motor with a Pair of gearboxes, one mounted in each end,....
...which is rare, if not unheard-of...

In inverse, a "precision dbl-ended can motor" can be pretty reliably noted as NOT a "gearhead" motor,...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Thank you Volker, The largest

Thank you Volker,

The largest size I found that will fit so far is the Canon EN22.

https://prec.canon/en/products/img/pdf/ironcore/EN22series.pdf

Prof Klyzir, Thanks for the

Prof Klyzir,

Thanks for the note.

What are the pros and cons of brushless versus brushed DC motors.

I have no clue what type of motors are in my Boo Rim models.

Good to know about Maxon,

Good to know about Maxon, Peter.

Deem, I’m not as scientifically savvy as the good doctor, but…….

……from experience I have found super efficient brushless motors can be a lot harder to “control” with decoders than brushed motors. They don’t seem to agree with Back EMF circuitry of decoders as they produce little or no BEMF. I go with a good quality brushed motor every time.  I’m sure Dr. K can explain it better and more scientifically than me as I’m hopeless with electronics. I use the trial and error method. I monkey with it till it works good but never really know exactly WHY it works good. A bit of a time consuming but quite reliable method. 
 

Peter

Deem, that is the correct motor…….

………and note the torque 19 nMn. I found another Faulhaber motor with 58 nMn which I used and will spin the wheels off the locomotive if you overload it. Just as information be aware that brushless and coreless motors are not the same. Coreless motors deal with decoders better than brushless but they are tricky as well as they also have less BEMF than regular can type motors. It’s funny, almost all my brass engines have been re-motored, usually to lower the amp draw enough to use HO decoders, except my Boo Rim made Glacier Park models. 
 

Hopefully dr. K can help us understand the differences between brushless, coreless, BEMF and decoders. 
 

Peter

Deemiorgos: The largest size

The Canon DN22 M H-Speed 12 V might be an even better fit with no-load 8,200 rpm. https://prec.canon/en/products/img/pdf/ironcore/DN22series_M.pdf

Brushless motors need three cables for control. As far as I now todays plugs don't support it with DCC.

Coreless motors run best on pure DC. With low-speed PWM they tend to overheat and get destroyed. Faulhaber recommends PWM frequencies of 20 kHz and more for its coreless motors. Today's silent decoders are mostly okay but some might still have only 15 kHz. Check the manuals.
Regards, Volker

A brushed motor it will be

A brushed motor it will be then, Peter.

I don't run DCC.