Pennsy_Nut

As I was working on ballast, etc. it occurred to me that flex track ties are too much alike. Yes, we can apply paint or pastels or such to change color. But proto ties are not that uniform in shape or texture. So - what I need to ask is for those of you that have done something to make flex track ties look more prototypical. What can we do? Has anyone tried scratching them with a steel brush? Or something like that? I'd hate to be the one experimenting? Hoping that someone has already done some finessing of ties. Saving me from ruining my ties. Is this clear? I certainly know that if we use wood ties and hand lay track we can do all kinds of neat things. But flex track is so good to use that all I feel is necessary is to make it look better.

Morgan Bilbo, DCS50, UR93, UT4D, SPROG IIv4, JMRI. PRR 1952.

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barr_ceo

Well, you can try modeling

Well, you can try modeling modern track that uses concrete ties...

Read my Journal / Blog...

!BARR_LO.GIF Freelanced N scale Class I   Digitrax & JMRI

 NRail  T-Trak Standards  T-Trak Wiki    My T-Trak Wiki Pages

Reply 0
ctxmf74

  "Has anyone tried

Quote:

"Has anyone tried scratching them with a steel brush? Or something like that?"

Yes, over the years many articles have been written about distressing and weathering flex track. Folks also spread out the tie spacing and clip off the end of random ties to vary their appearance. Youtube might be a good place to start a search for these kind of videos. Also check the search line here to see if there are any past threads on the subject. .....DaveB

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mike horton

Why would you not use your ties?

Take a scrap piece or scribe or scratch some. Usually, I cut some out completely, then respace, cut various ends of to kill uniform look. You can drill and scrape out some holes to simulate really old ties. Just do it man.

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Pennsy_Nut

I mean - after track laid..

I might clarify a bit. I mentioned that I was ballasting. That means my track is already laid - too late to space them. Maybe not to late to cut a few short or such. I had searched on YouTube and didn't find what I want. Just how to fix wood ties in hand laying. Maybe I didn't look deep/hard enough. But thanks for the few suggestions. I will keep on trying.

Morgan Bilbo, DCS50, UR93, UT4D, SPROG IIv4, JMRI. PRR 1952.

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Milt Spanton mspanton

I recall posting on this

I recall posting on this quite some time ago. You can use a flush cutter it nip a little off the ends of some ties. Don’t nip too much off.


You can also use an xacto knife to add some wane to the middle and ends of some ties. You don’t want to have wane near the tieplate area: any tie inspector should have culled out any such ties before they got treated. 

Such detail is good where the ties are up close for viewing. Tracks further from view won’t benefit much from such detailing. No one can see it. 

- Milt
The Duluth MISSABE and Iron Range Railway in the 50's - 1:87

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joef

You need to look again at MicroEngineering flex track

If you’re concerned about the ties being too uniform, you need to take another look at MicroEngineering flex track. The ties are deliberately non-uniform on ME flex track.

Joe Fugate​
Publisher, Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine

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Read my blog

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Pennsy_Nut

Choice of track.

I certainly appreciate the idea that ME might have been a better/or good choice. But I've already laid PECO and do like it. And am now ballasting it. So, I will try the Xacto blade and nippers. But sparingly. It is a shelf layout and all track is pretty much visible. But doing just foreground might suffice. Depending on how long all this takes. This part of MR is the most tedious. Far easier to detail a car or loco on the work bench than working on track on the layout. Or making a structure. Done on the bench, and then just fiddled into place on the layout. 

Morgan Bilbo, DCS50, UR93, UT4D, SPROG IIv4, JMRI. PRR 1952.

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Douglas Meyer

Yes ties are not 100%

Yes ties are not 100% uniform.  But I think they may be a bit more uniform then we think.  In HO scale  we are standing and view track from above and about 160-240 feet away.  Add in that out eyes are close to 30 scale feet apart and we get a view that is close to what a person would see from 300-800 feet from the track (this is in part why perspective is so hard to get right) 

At 200-500 feet ties look remarkably similar.  
 

Another way to look at it.  In HO a time that is 2” different then the next ti is about 1/44th of an inch different. That is about the thickens of 4-5 pieces of copy paper,  And let’s be honest you don’t get 2” difference you may get an inch.  And back in the days when class 1 railroads had dedicated section crews that maintained relatively short stretches of mainline the ties and track were much better maintained then today.  
 

The Problem is we are used to standing at track side looking at ties,  This is 8-25 feet distance.  That would in HO scale require you to put your chine on the ground next to the track.  (About 1 to 3 inch viewing distance). Or better yet use a camera as your eyes are two far apart.  
 

This is the same argument I get yelled at years ago for when I said we are building caricatures.  This is not intended as an insult.  Obviously we are not trying to be humorous.  Be we do tend to exaggerate or over emphasize things.  Wood grain and nail holes being to obvious examples and the mortar lines in brick work being another.  From the distance we see our trains Wood Grain and nail holes should be invisible,  and mortar joints are very small.  But we emphasize this in an attempt to make it more visible,  This is good but can be easily over done and then we wonder why it does not look quite as realistic as we may hope for.

Track/ties can easily fall into that,  We “know” that real ties have variations  in them and we “know” that plastic ties are injected molded out of the same limited number of dies.  So we “know” they are unrealistic looking.  In part this is like a cabinet I built 25 years ago.  I know the three mistakes I ,ade and I see them almost everyday when I look at it.  But I have had tons of complaints and a couple people offer good money to buy it.  They don’t see the mistakes because they are relatively small  it i know they are there so I can see them from 20’ away.  Because I hyper focus on them.  (In truth my eyesight hasn’t been good enough yo  see them from more then 5’ in over a decade.  But the mind fills in the missing details)  

Try to find photos of track from 200-800 feet away and taken from above then take a photo of model track and compare them.  They won’t be that different except for color.  
 

Now that said and occasionally messed up tie or nipping off an end to make it look less uniform or  even a file to change the sides and width ever once in a while to slightly emphasize the difference is probably a reasonable idea.  Just don’t over do this unless you are modeling a logging branch or something,  And those probably used trees flattened on top not ties.

-Doug M

Reply 0
Ken Rice

color vs texture

Doug, I think you hit the nail on the head.  I think that’s why some of the most realistic modeled scenes are those where the modeler focuses on getting the color right.  Stock flextrack that’s well colored by someone who knows what they’re doing with colors is going to look way more realistic than flextrack with ties scuffed up, skewed, and/or nipped to add texture and variation but with an average paint job.

I think that’s why people like Lance Mindheim and Rick Sutton produce such realistic looking scenes - they get the colors right.

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kjd

More uniform

It depends on what type of track you are modeling.  Google maps is a pretty good resource here.  I looked at the Portland, OR, area at a busy track and the ties look very uniform.  But on a shortline with a 10mph limit there is lots more variation.  I think most modelers over do the variation.  I agree with Doug that getting the colors right does more to enhance the illusion.  It is the same with weathering rolling stock.  For the most part, I probably won't notice if the front truck on your B39-8 is set back and has a number from early production or moved forward a few inches to represent the later models but will be immediately be able to see if the weathering is plausible.

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Pennsy_Nut

Distance

That's what I mentioned in my 9 AM post. My shelf layout is at arm pit level, hence I'm looking right at the track. The front track is right at the layout edge and is most visible. So, I started to think about this. That's why I am writing and asking about this subject. Yes, most modelers: Overdo it. Look at their layout from 200 feet above. Etc. But when I stand at my layout, that foremost track just stares out at me - "look at me! I'm flex track! And I don't look prototypical! But yes, it's not a junk yard track. It's main line. Albeit on a short line, not a Class A. So it needs "some" sort of touch up. Maybe just mixing colors? I just need to keep looking for pix that might be "just the right thing!"

Morgan Bilbo, DCS50, UR93, UT4D, SPROG IIv4, JMRI. PRR 1952.

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mike horton

Short lines do maintenance too!

But ties, unless all have been replaced will vary in color, a few weeds poking through ballast here and there, and rail color. Remember, unless the siding is new, depending on the age of buildings and such, most are buried in dirt and weeds,  no ballast at all, that’s what should stand out to,you.

I just used grays, browns, and tans to give this micro engineering, code 70 track that older deferred maintenance look.

8044C8C.jpeg 

Reply 0
Steves VR

@ Morgan

Have a look here for some fine looking flex track by Hobbes1310.

https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/42274?page=6

 

Cheers,

Steve

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scenicsRme

roughing up wood

An easy to do texturing that can be used on any simulation of rough wood from ties to rough cut lumber to telephone poles to tree bark is to use a sharp modeler's miter saw blade or broken off hacksaw blade section held nearly vertical to the surface and dragged lengthwise down the piece to leave deep parallel scratches, By varying the number of teeth on the blade, the pressure (use light pressure, especially on plastic), the angle of the blade compared to the direction of travel; more angle = closer scratches, moving the blade slightly sideways as you drag will produce wavy grain lines. stain desired color then apply a thin black india ink and alcohol wash to bring out the scratches. If already ballasted the india ink wash will darken the ballast around the ties giving a realistic shadow of dirt and age buildup setting off the ties as well. Finally add a thin wash brushed down the center of the ties and ballast to simulate the oil, grease, wheel and brake dust buildup. apply a thin brown wash with a small brush along both edges of the rails to simulate rust leeching into the ballast. Keep the weathering understated let the overall impression show the age not obvious color. You can always go back and add more, but it's nearly impossible to remove if overdone.

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Douglas Meyer

I don’t think this has been

I don’t think this has been answered but what flex. track are you using?

-Doug M

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Pennsy_Nut

More info.

Doug: I have already finished the roadbed and track - foam posterboard for roadbed and PECO code 83 for flex and Insulfrog for turnouts. Shelf layout. 12" deep by 24' long. On the wall approx. 58" off the floor. My arm pit height. A good level for viewing. So I can easily see the track. I am in the middle of ballasting when I decided to ask about this flex track not looking prototypical. Steve: He did a nice job of painting, but those ties still look too uniform. And he uses an air brush. I don't have one. I use brushes. But: I've been trying ink pens. Colored Sharpies and some furniture touch ups. Various browns, tans, black, etc. They work nice for various needs. Easy to paint rails. And easier for ties - a brush can be overdone - the pen is easier to control. Also, drag black along the center of the ties - because I'm a steam MR. So, I suspect that I will continue to experiment as best I can. scenicsRme: That sounds feasible, but as you say, I will have to be careful to not "overdo it". I think what most of y'all are saying is similar to weathering cars, etc. A little goes a long way. Don't get too carried away!

Morgan Bilbo, DCS50, UR93, UT4D, SPROG IIv4, JMRI. PRR 1952.

Reply 0
smadanek

I have switched to

I have switched to using Micro Engineering rail code 70 rail joiners to improve the looks of close up viewable track. 

I use a spudger cell phone opener tool to do fine cleanup of ballast that gets on top of ties. 

Most of the up close track on my small layout is yard trackage that is buried with the ballast long covered with soil and dirt blown over it unless recently re-ballasted. I am using linen colored sanded grout as a final layer brushed on and then misted with a 75% water and 25% IPA (70% IPA) spray. 

It is still drying in this picture

truction.jpg Note spudger tool...ME rail joiner at skewed tie is almost invisible. Peco code 70 in foreground. Garden tracks behind are ME code 70.

Ken Adams
Walnut Creek, California
Getting too old to  remember all this stuff.... Now Officially a COG (and I've forgotten what that means too...)
Reply 0
jeffshultz

Spudgers...

I have very few t-shirts that I have worn to work that do not have at least one hole in them thanks to that tool....

orange70.jpg
Jeff Shultz - MRH Technical Assistant
DCC Features Matrix/My blog index
Modeling a fictional GWI shortline combining three separate areas into one freelance-ish railroad.

Reply 0
GeeTee

Nothing quite like real wood

 

Atlas MK1 #8 far right , Atlas MK1 #8 ties removed and relaid on wood ties , left hand laid #8 showing the layup 4mm EVA, matte board, ties.

 

ratch800.JPG 

 

 

Hand laid #8 installed _time800.JPG 

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Greg Amer gregamer

Wood Grain

My HO Peco track has wood grain molded into the track. I have sometimes scraped things up with a steel brush, or used something to mangle a tie or two. You can always cut the connecting web from below and skew some ties also. I think the key thing though is color variation, a wash to sink into the recesses and dry brush to highlight the peaks.

52B28F9.jpeg 
Peco Streamline 83 track woodgrain.

449DA73.jpeg 
Peco Streamline 83 painted plus some light scratching with a steel brush
 

6BC5160.jpeg 
And for fun Right-O-Way flex just paint.

 

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