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Photo Etching ladders: metal thickness experiences? Scenery and structures
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Prolific poster 1,556 posts Yaron Bandell ybandell Prolific poster 1,556 posts
Yaron Bandell ybandell

I'm researching the creation of some N&W CPL signals in HO scale. I looked at many companies and it seems that not one of them does actual N&W CPL signals nor PRR CPL signals of which the N&W ones are derivatives of, or if they do they won't have the dual mast version on a single supported post platform I'd need.

10320_01.png    10320_04.png 

I looked at the following vendors:

  • Showcase Miniatures
  • Oregon Rail
  • Azatrax
  • Atlas / BLMA
  • Integrated Signal Systems
  • Traincat2
  • Modelmemories
  • NJI Signals

So since I can't find what I need, I'm going to have to resort to making/designing these myself. The first thing that comes up is to do photo etchings of the fine ladders and platforms and get a 3D printer to create some of the other components such as lamp housings, pipe bases etc.

I know I can draw/generate the needed artwork files and would outsource the creation of the etchings to a company like PPD in the UK. With the prices they charge and the expertise they have I see no reason to try any etching myself beyond it being another skill acquired Pricing wise PPD is cheaper than getting the Micromark photo etching set, the chemicals, the getting rid of said chemicals, the metals to etch and the time to learn how to get the fine etchings I want (It's not that difficult as you can see in one of Luke Towan's videos).

Some of the stuff offered by the vendors above which potentially could be a starting base is more expensive than me drawing something up and wasting 2 or 3 rounds etches from PPD. I need two single masts and two double masts to protect a passing siding on my envisioned module.

So here is my question to anyone who has done etchings in the past, especially etching of ladders:

  • What material did you have the object etched from, and what thickness did you use?
    • Brass, Nickel Silver, Phosphor Bronze, Stainless?
    • 0.10mm, 0.15mm, 0.20mm, 0.30mm, 0.4mm?
  • What were the thinnest lines you made successfully in what material and thickness?
  • How easy did the material break when bending 90 degrees?
  • Did you use half etching bend lines?
  • Of the 4 mentioned materials, which one would be the most rugged at such small scale?

I realize that if I'd choose stainless I'd be SOL trying to solder anything to it, so that factors somewhat into the decision as well.

Any insights and real world photo etching experience you can give me is much appreciated!

-Yaron.

-Yaron.
Susquehanna Bridge Build | My Personal Website | Capitol Free-mo
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Bernd MRH Author 5,623 posts
Bernd

Signal Light Ladders

Yaron,

Many many years ago I built some 3 color search lights using brass, casting resin and 8 pin dips. The ladders are "N" scale brass ladders and just about simulate the narrow ladders in signals.

I like the idea of the etched signal heads and 3D printed lamp housings.

Bernd

New York, Vermont & Northern Rwy. - Route of the Black Diamonds - NCSWIC
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tretteld Regular poster 119 posts
tretteld

Oh Yes, we need those

Yaron, I hope that you will document your journey here as I could eventually use some N&W cpl's too. 

A year or two ago there was an ebay vendor offering brass cpl's in the two mast over one mast configuration. But I just happened to check a few days ago and he had nothing offered. If I remember correctly, he was asking around $60 each.

Good luck. 

Don T.

Modeling the N&W in the 1970s 
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Craig Townsend Super User 1,634 posts
Craig Townsend

PPD artwork guide

The PPS artwork guide is going to answer a lot of your design restrictions. Rule of the thumb is min. width is 1.5x material thickness. So using that information figure out how thick you want the ladders and go from there. 

 

Nickel silver is probably going to be the strongest but also the most expensive. 

 

I'd say one or two bends at 90 shouldn't be a problem not having a half etch, but it's worth the extra bit of design work.


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CandOfan Prolific poster 1,554 posts
CandOfan

From other domains...

Photo etch is used practically universally in model ships of ages past the sail. Most of that PE is on either .009" or .005" brass. A few are steel of similar dimensions. That includes ship railings and especially radar antennae. After working with them a bit, I came to view them as pretty sturdy and not all that hard to work with. The brass is reasonably workable and normally will survive at least one mis-bend and generally two.

One vendor offers railings etched on 0.003" material, and that is a VERY different story. I'd built at least eight or ten ships with regular 0.005" railings before I tried the ultra-fine stuff and I found it to be ultra-finicky and very hard to work with - for expert use only, really, and I definitely don't qualify.

Modeling the C&O in Virginia in 1943, 1927 and 1918
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Yaron Bandell ybandell Prolific poster 1,556 posts
Yaron Bandell ybandell

Feedback so far

Don T., when I do get things going, I'll for sure document this here on MRH.

Craig, Yeah, I've been looking at the PPD info and minimum dimensions and it'll be easy to draw to those given dimensions. Some dimensions must be enlarged to meet the minimums for sure. It's just really hard to get a feeling of how fragile a ladder made from 0.18mm minimum line widths etched from 0.1mm copper, phosphor bronze or nickel silver for example ends up being. Nickel silver being the strongest: that is what I thought too, but I'm thinking it might also be slightly more likely to snap than brass or phosphor bronze when it comes to bending? I guess I'll have to create a few ladder versions on a single sheet and work with them.

C&Ofan, thank you for that feedback. That dimensional information you gave is helpful.

-Yaron.
Susquehanna Bridge Build | My Personal Website | Capitol Free-mo
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