Anyone have any thoughts

Anyone have any thoughts about the coal cars? I plan on using the Tichy Ore cars to serve "Work's Coal" which is what I named my tipple built from the old AHM/Pola kit. I plan on scratching some sort of versions of the auxiliary buildings  like the lamp cabin and the hoist house. Those were left out of the kit.

Wood Coal cars

Well it depends on what era you are modeling.  If you are modeling the 1900 era then something like a wood drop bottom gon or a PRR GB, P&R HK (both Shapeways) or PRR GG class hopper (Westerfield) or a steel twin hopper would be appropriate.  One of my chronic complaints is that in the 1900 era the single largest commodity hauled by railroads was coal and there isn't a single plastic model of an accurate wood gon, hopper bottom gon or hopper produced by any manufacturer.  

If you are modeling an era to match your RS1 then any steel 40-50-55-70 ton hopper will work.  

Technically the Tichy Ore car would be a poor car for coal because its way too small.  Its designed for something really dense (ore or aggregate) and would be not have a capacity to make it worth while to ship coal.  Iron ore is 4-6 times as dense as coal.  A 50 ton ore car would only handle 10-12 tons of coal.  Crushed rock is 3 to 4 times as dense as coal.

I am waffling between using Tichy cars for iron ore (I have an iron ore mine on my layout) or crushed rock (I have 2 quarries.)  For coal, if you cut the ends off the Tichy cars and doubled two cars together to make one larger car, that would be more like a coal car.

I don't remember where I read

I don't remember where I read it but it was my understanding that these mines produced a rather limited amount of coal a day. At least by modern standards. I'm still iffy on my era change. The RS-1 might just be a little distraction I have over on the harbor. I used to have some Accurail USRA hoppers and I suppose I could get some again. They are much easier  to put together than the Tichy are. I sacrificed two of my Tichy before I got in a groove. I'll make em wrecks somewhere... The Jack Work article says this mine shut down in 1950.

@Michael There are often excellent drawings ...

... of these kinds of cars in the Narrow Gauge and Shortline Gazette (You might want to pop a note off to Bob Brown, the Editor of NG&SLG), and Darryl Muralt's book on the Dolley Varden Silver Mine (Steel Rails and Silver Dreams) has some awesome photos and drawings.  (Ore Cars vs coal, but similar).

There is a great Library at UBC with a huge collection of BC Archival materials. I think it is largely accessible online - they may have plans for mines like this in BC, the rail lines, cars, etc. as a lot of it had to be filed with the superintendent of railways in BC - I have found stuff on the Dolly Varden RR there.   Many years ago, I made a trip there and got to touch the original Taylor Engineering drawings of various grades and surveys, building plans, etc. of the Dolly Varden.  Today, I could make the same journey online!

You'd have to go on a bit of a dig, but here's a link to get you started:  UBC Open Library

NG&SLG had quite a write up on the Lenora & Mt. Sicker a few years ago and has likely covered most of the mines at some point, perhaps including the White Rapids.

Gons

Western roads used gons for coal long after the Eastern roads switched to hoppers.  SP and D&RG used

Gs gons and Santa Fe used Caswells into the 60's when the hoppers started to win favor.  

@Mike

I think I may have chanced upon some of that already with my research in the past few days. It's interesting to note that one of the websites, possibly the University, has a picture of a scratchbuilt Jack Work  mine if you look up "White Rapids Mine".  Not sure if it's the original or a copy. I'm still a long way from being a prototype modeler and I doubt I get there in this lifetime but occasionally something piques my interest and I get a little deeper in proto research than I would normally be inclined to do. It can be fun for awhile.

I've been a long time fan of Jack Work, he's right up there in my top five list of influences, right behind John Allen at number one. As a kid and then a teenager I was always a fan of the AHM/Pola mine kit but it wasn't until I was an adult that I dove deep enough in my research to connect it to Jack and then to find out what his prototype was. I hadn't thought of it for years and then a couple of years ago I was doing a lot of selling on E-bay and they sent me a coupon which I used to buy the kit with. Then, as you know, I used the trial membership in trains.com to access the archive and find the articles.

Here's another shot I found, maybe a bit better look at the cars...

Here's a picture of the

Here's the picture of the scratch built mine. I have no idea if it's Jack's or a copy by someone else but it's very nicely done and really shows the shortcomings of the kit. I believe if it were the original it would have the lamp cabin and other buildings too but it does have the hoist house which the kit does not. I am going to bring my structure closer to this and maybe someday, if I can find the time, I may scratch one from the ground up.

Those are fabulous photos

And that mine is the bomb! 

I have one of those mine models somewhere (Pola or Helmand, I can’t recall) ......  in N Scale of all things.  I had no idea of its origins until I read your post.

This book really is an amazing read about the trials and tribulations of mining and the railroads that serve: https://www.amazon.ca/Steel-Silver-Dreams-Darryl-Murlat/dp/0961546700. I got to know Daryl a bit when I lived in Victoria long ago and he autographed a first edition copy for my Bride and I.  I have probably read it 2 dozen times and have aspirations to build parts of it in a spare room at the farm on a shelf layout. It's well worth the price on Amazon.  I think I paid about $75 for it when it first came out.  

My wife's stepdad was a logger on Vancouver Island for a long time and knew where a lot of this stuff was.  I remember one Sunday him taking us up to locate and walk the roadbed of the old Lenora and Mt. Sicker Railway. 

Many of the photos Daryl used are from the UBC collection via the Taylor Engineering archives (He's the guy who learned so much from this debacle and went on to build the Lion's Gate Bridge and has a major roadway named after him in Vancouver.

Check this out.  https://studylib.net/doc/6725542/narrow-gauge-in-canada---august-health-services

Here's some youtubes of a model of the railway that's fairly famous.  The Camp 8 mine on the Dolly Varden is a very cool but smaller version of the White Rapids mine. 

And here, a video ON the real thing filmed in 1929

The whole railway was only 18 miles and the mining company is still in operation to an extent.  To date it remains one of the highest yield assay of silver on the planet, but getting to it has always presented a major challenge.

https://www.dollyvardensilver.com/projects/dolly-varden-project/historic-work/#:~:text=The%20Dolly%20Varden%20Mines%20properties,the%20Hazelton%20Group%20Arc%20Assemblage.

A model of Dolly Varden house and the ore tipple would look so cool on your Furlow extension, right beside that Slocan style barge!  The book is a must read and it's the kind of thing a guy can hint about starting about now for next Christmas in the hope that his bride notices and helps Santa acquire same!  Bob Brown at NG& SLG may have some around as I think they published it originally.  Bob has done so much great stuff for this hobby - a true pioneer.

As soon as the weather is flyable, I will get home for a bit and pm you a plan of the ore cars.  There is a 1/4" scale drawing in the book.
 

The Pola Kit

The mine kit was offered by several manufacturers over the years in both HO and N scale. I think the original version was AHM but in addition to Pola, I've seen Tyco and Model Power versions. Here's a pic of mine I took after I first built it and installed it on the layout. It will never be as good as a pure scratch model but I think I can bring it closer to that look with a little bit of work...

Your layout looks amazing

Such nice work.  Love the refuges and fire barrels. Micro engineering bridge?

ME bridge

Yes it's a couple of different ME kits combined plus an extra tower because I flubbed one up and needed more parts. Between my time in N-scale and now HO, I've built about five different ME tall steel viaducts and I made up my mind this one would be the last unless I get to expand and do another one. This one is actually removable if I have to move or destroy the layout. I can pull a few "ripcord" strings hidden behind the scenery, remove the fascia and take out one screw and out it comes. Below is a picture of it sitting on another part of the layout when it was being built. This whole unit, scenery and all comes out.

Prototype VS Freelance/History VS Fiction

I find reading History much more fascinating than reading even the best fiction, and in modeling, I think prototype vs freelance makes the same distinction.

After all, even freelance is based on the fact that railroads actually existed.  Noting that some things pique your interest, I think that is exactly what prototype modeling does. 

It can answer the obvious questions:  Who were these people and how did they work in this mine?  When did it exist?  How much coal/ore did it produce and who bought it?  What engines pulled the hoppers?  What type of hoppers did they use?  Etc.....

I think your interest here shows you are much closer to prototype modeling than you  think.  Not the sort that insists on exact reproduction of every detail, but something that reproduces the essence, the feel, the spirit of the original because the history of what was happening piques your interest and you want to learn more and model what you discover.

And when you look at the completed model...you think....this was cool..glad I learned about this and built a scale replica of what was then and is no longer.

Hart Convertible Gons

The gons in the second prototype photo you posted look suspiciously like Hart Convertible gondolas.  I wonder if they were used for hauling away the spoils or tailings to be used as fill?  In those gons it could be dumped from the bottom or the sides or pushed out either end by a tractor depending on how they were configured.

Galen

As far as prototype modeling,

As far as prototype modeling, I've always preferred to to remain pretty firmly planted in my fictional world although I do like to have some real world ties and try to keep my era consistent. While it's fine for some folks to have a big boy pulling a container train or to model a specific place right down to a day in time, I'm always going to fall somewhere in the middle of those two extremes and I'm comfortable there. Research is fun for a few days but I've got so many interest and so many projects that I never could devote the time to it to do strict proto modeling. I respect and admire the guys that do it but it's never going to be me and what I'm about.

I'd rather be lucky than good and the fact that I can pretty reasonably line up the time line of when the prototype mine still operated and when my new RS-1 Diesel came into use as well as place it's road in the general vicinity of where the mine was is plausible enough for me.

As far as the gons or  hoppers, whatever they may be, if I can find a reasonable facsimile of them then I'll use them, if not I'll just use my Tichy ore cars or grab some Accurail USRA hoppers and then call it a day and try not to lose any sleep over it. I'm always open to suggestions though and if anyone knows of a readily available close car model then please let me know!

Well, it's not  a Big Boy....

Well, it's not  a Big Boy.... "just" a Challenger....

Just goes to show

There's a prototype for everything! I honestly had no idea that had ever been done in the real world!

That is a lot of train

For one locomotive. Just keeping the brake lines charged. 

Lot of train...   And notice

Lot of train...

And notice there's no  diesel helper/safety engine on this one.... just a spare water tank and what is probably a tool car... and he's haulin'... um...    ...whatever. Doesn't even seem to be working that hard.

Most of that smoke is just the blower

For the camera. 

Hit the brakes

I rode a steam excursion on the Great Smoky Mountain Railway in Bryson NC. There was a diesel in the rear for brakes. I didn't know it was there at first but caught site of it looking out the side window towards the back.

I have to prioritize some things on the layout so I doubt I get to adding to my mine structure and scene for  awhile yet. I was just kind of spurred on this little research jaunt when I gained access to the MR archives and could look the original coal mine articles up. I've already cancelled that though because of the billing structure and lack of options to it.

I learned a lot of interesting stuff though and it will greatly influence the fictional narrative and history of my pike.

@Michael

Did you get my email?  I don’t know if it works.

I got both and I responded to

I got both and I responded to the second. I don't think the attachments came through on the first one.

Well, it's not a Big Boy....

That is [expletive] amazing. And as noted; not even working that hard. Thanks!

A colorized version of the photo

On another thread there is mention of an online colorization tool. I used it on the mine pic...