railandsail

Laying Cork Roadbed

I am just about ready to start laying track and cork roadbed on sections of my main deck. Basically I will be using the standard 3/16” thick cork under all my mainlines surrounding the perimeter of the room.

I will have quite a number of turnouts on those mainlines leading off to secondary tracks feeding those mainlines. I want to use a lesser thickness cork on those feeder tracks,....in fact a sheet cork (available from Hobby Lobby) that is almost exactly half the thickness of the mainline cork.

I'm looking for advice about how to best handle these 'transition areas' where the cork roadbed makes a change in thickness. I've been worried about getting this correct for a long time. There was even a time when I considered not using any roadbed at all just to avoid this 'uneven' track base.

Brian

1) First Ideas: Help Designing Dbl-Deck Plan in Dedicated Shed
2) Next Idea: Another Interesting Trackplan to Consider
3) Final Plan: Trans-Continental Connector

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railandsail

Example

On this side of my main deck I have a long track down along the wall (comes up from staging tracks via the helix) (track not shown in this photo, just its centerline penciled in) . The next 2 lines are the 2 mainlines (with crossovers). The inner one of those mainlines have turnouts that feed 2 ladders of turnouts for either end of the freight yard
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15141-2.jpeg 

 

Lets take a closer look at that turnout combination I circled above,...its a dbl-curved turnout on the mainline that is feeding a 3-way that serves the freight yard ladder and the diesel fueling area. The paper template laid over the cork roadbed would look like this
15318-3.jpeg 


15355-4.jpeg 


15442-5.jpeg 

That unevenness under the two would be very upsetting to me. I have always believed that any single turnout needs to be mounted on a firm level base.!

 

My solution for this would be to mount both of those turnouts on the thicker cork roadbed,...then attempt to grade down to the thinner roadbed off the 'square ends' of 3-way?....like this ??
15536-6.jpeg 

 

And what is the best way to make that transition in height?

 

 

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Chris Palermo patentwriter

Door shim, or sand

Your last photo is the way to handle it.

Two ways to transition. Use a door shim, trim to fit, sand (because their split surface is rough). Or, lay a short double thick section of the thin cork, glue with yellow glue, then the next day, sand. Use a palm sander in one hand, a vacuum hose of a running vac in the other to clear the crumbs. Goes quick. Stop and check often for fit.

At Large North America Director, 2024-2027 - National Model Railroad Association, Inc.
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ctxmf74

shim to match

   Thin layers of various thickness material can be glued in a stepped manner and sanded to create a ramp down, it doesn't have to be perfect as the caulking layer can fill in any gaps when gluing the cork down. With so many tracks in such a tight space and so short yard tracks I'd not bother with differnet track elevations, I'd just grade the whole yard to match the mainline cork thickness. Some variation in terrain could be created with drainage swales between the tracks in spots. Either leave the cork out between the tracks or carve the swales in the cork before laying the tracks......DaveB

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railandsail

Door Shims

Do those door shims come in such fine grade/slim gradations?

 

 

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railandsail

3 levels of track elevation

Quote:

With so many tracks in such a tight space and so short yard tracks I'd not bother with differnet track elevations, I'd just grade the whole yard to match the mainline cork thickness.

I thought about this, particularly in the freight yard area. But would this then lead to elevating all the other tracks to this mainline level? ...I don't think that would work well around my roundtable, nor in my container yards, nor on the center peninsula, nor in the brick factory, nor in my steel mill areas.

In fact in a number of those other areas such as the still mill area and container areas I will need to place plastic pieces to make the tracks appear to be flush with the concrete. So those areas will have NO cork at all,.... presenting me with the need to further reduce the track grade down to plywood level, thus 3 levels.

 

 

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ACR_Forever

Brian,

we generally lay the thicker cork in areas where we're doing this sort of reduction, then sand the cork with coarse sandpaper to the profile we want.  To go from 3/18" to 3/32" cork thicknesses, we work to make that change over more than a foot of cork; in your case, from 3/16" to 0", you'd need twice that distance.  That's very gradual, but it's essential that you do not introduce sudden grade changes.  Joe wrote extensively about this issue in his Trackwork book. 

The alternative, which we have also used, is to go from thin ply (1/2") under the cork roadbed, to thicker ply (5/8") for the yard, achieving most of the change that way, but this requires careful work to avoid any perturbation in the plywood transition.

Blair

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craig3

Two lengths of door shims

Brian,

If you opt for the door shims, they do come in two lengths so look for the longer ones as they are more gradually tapered.  Mine were from HD and are probably 10" to 12" long or so.  The shorter ones are only about 6" long. 

Craig

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Boudreaux

lesson the hard way

Brian,

Helped a fellow B.S.A. Scoutmaster build his first HO lay out yrs. ago.  Took the two of us about 6 1/2 yrs. to build and found that switch areas had to be level, than make grade change.. up or down.

150 ft. of Nickel Silver Sec. track w/D.C..

We even beveled the edge of the cork road bed to look better after gravel added.

Found remote switch machines worked better too.

Used Torpedo Level at each switch area.

Boudreaux,  B.C.E.  R.R.

P.S.  On my small layout here,  I even trimmed off a few ties at different angles to look old and worn.

 

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railandsail

Wonder if I can sand some of

Wonder if I can sand some of those cork gradations on my outdoor work bench?  That would be a lot more appealing to me from a messy standpoint.

And what keeps the cork from balling up in little chunks??

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eastwind

thin cork over thin shim

You can use a thin shim underneath the thinner cork. Do your sanding on the shim, not the cork. 

You can call me EW. Here's my blog index

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railandsail

If you opt for the door

Quote:

If you opt for the door shims, they do come in two lengths so look for the longer ones as they are more gradually tapered.  Mine were from HD and are probably 10" to 12" long or so.  The shorter ones are only about 6" long. 

Craig

I had some combo wood-plastic ones I experimented with a bit today, but I have found their grade a little too steep thus creating a vertical kink at the exit from the 3-way regardless of how close/far it was placed from that join with the exit of the 3-way. I was also not to happy with plastic that appeared to want to warp into an unlevel shape.

I went to Lowes later this evening and finally found some longer wooden ones. I will experiment with those tomorrow.

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LyndonS

Sanding a taper

I agree with patentwriter's sanding suggestion. I have  3 locations on my layout where I first glued the cork down, then the next day used an orbital sander that has a vacuum attachment to get a nice, gradual taper down to my yard level. As patentwriter said, it does go quick. Two locations have #6 turnouts installed right at the transitition and the result is trouble-free operation.

Lyndon S.

Santa Fe Railway, Los Angeles Division, 1950s

See my layout at: https://nmra.org.au/santa-fe-railway-los-angeles-division-1950s/

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railandsail

levels of cork & new idea for routing turnout control rods

Quote:

With so many tracks in such a tight space and so short yard tracks I'd not bother with differnet track elevations, I'd just grade the whole yard to match the mainline cork thickness. Some variation in terrain could be created with drainage swales between the tracks in spots. Either leave the cork out between the tracks or carve the swales in the cork before laying the tracks......DaveB

I'm giving some serious considerations to what you posted DaveB,...at least for the freight yard tracks themselves. Then only dropping down to the half thickness cork in tracks feeding the rolling plant and engine service building,....then maybe all the way down to plywood level for the blast furnace and electric furnace.

While experimenting around with this idea of having more cork roadbed than I originally planned, I've hit upon another idea for routing some of my turnout manual control rods,....across the surface of the plywood rather than underneath it.

Several days ago I took these two photos of the general orientation plan of those control rods as they would be mounted under the plywood deck,..but what if they to be routed on the top of the deck, in their own tube, and thru slots in the cork roadbed??
mage(42).png 

 

mage(43).png 

(I took those photos so I would remember approx where to drill holes for those rods in an aux steel beam angle-iron have under that edge of the plywood)

 

 

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railandsail

turnout control rods thru slots in cork roadbed

just to give it a rough idea,,
 

 

1/8" plastic tube with steel rod
51608-1.jpeg 

 

....3/32" plastic tube with piano wire activator
51716-2.jpeg 

 

....white coated steel rod within a brass tube,..
mage(44).png 

 

 

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Pennsy_Nut

What I did.

Brian: I see a lot of conjecture here. Lot's of ideas. Lot's of advice. I usually offer suggestions. Today, I will only state what I have actually done. I used plastic straws or stir rods, just enough to slide the wire through. The wire must be stiff, but also be able to curve a bit to match the throw rods from the direction you've chosen to route them. Since I used "used" wire from my "collection" or "scrap box". I had some solid and some stranded. Both work. Just as long as they are "stiff but curvable". I managed to affix them to the throw rods first, and then disconnecting them to push through from the layout edge. (Most were AWG 22 through black stir sticks-that's what I had in my stash.) Actually in my case, I used slide switches at the edge and controlling the wire. In my case, the longest was only 10", so for your ? "what looks like" 3' or more, you may have to experiment with your wire. Finally, your spacing of the cork is too wide. Just leave enough for the plastic straw to fit. The plastic does not have to slide. In fact, it should be adhered with either: DAP Alex if you want to be able to remove them or change them. OR Loctite PL 300 for permanent. the Loctite is a permanent adhesive made just for plastic. That's why I use straws (cheap or free) only caulk to adhere the straws in place. Most other adhesives I've used are not good on plastic. The two I mention work really great on plastic. Even the cheap stuff. Or "packaging plastic" - you know, the crumbling kind. FYI - I have actually used the caulk to adhere the roadbed and track. In your case, if you are sure you will never have to relocate the track, use the Loctite. Use the DAP only if you are unsure and may wish to move the roadbed or track at some later time. That's your individual choice. And my advice based upon experience. Others may offer their suggestions, and I may be corrected by their experience. I am not perfect.From all your messages, I get the impression you are more a pack rat than I and may have enough wire to do the whole yard. ?? LOL

Morgan Bilbo, DCS50, UR93, UT4D, SPROG IIv4, JMRI. PRR 1952.

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railandsail

Clarifications

Quote:

The wire must be stiff, but also be able to curve a bit to match the throw rods from the direction you've chosen to route them.  ....Both work. Just as long as they are "stiff but curvable".

I have done a little experimenting with that idea and discovered I do not have to precisely align the control cables with the throw bars,..they can be considerable off axis, particularly if cable guide fixture is not super close to the attachment to the throwout bar. There is not that much movement required of the throwbar with these Peco turnouts, and a little flexibility in that connecting wire/cable can throw the turnout from quite an acute angle.

Quote:

Actually in my case, I used slide switches at the edge and controlling the wire. In my case, the longest was only 10", so for your ? "what looks like" 3' or more, you may have to experiment with your wire 

I believe i will also utilize small slide switches at the edge to control that cable going to the turnout. I'm looking at two types of control cable,...both solid rod:
1) Piano wire running inside that 3/32" diameter plastic tube,...piano wire slightly larger than .039". At the turnout end it will be bent into a 90 degree upbend that fits up thru the hole in the throwbar. That plastic tube will likely not be a whole long piece, buy rather sectional along the length. That diameter tube will fit under the track whether its mounted on the thicker cork or thinner cork.

2) In some cases I have some bigger diameter rod i can use. In this case I am going to experiment with soldering a thinner piece of music wire to the end of it so it connects to the turnout throwbar in the same manner as above. That thicker control rod will fit inside a larger plastic tube that will fit under the thicker cork. There will be no tube covering where it is going under track mounted to the thinner cork.

 

Quote:

your spacing of the cork is too wide. Just leave enough for the plastic straw to fit. The plastic does not have to slide

 That was just a quickie mock-up to show that the cables can past under both track situations,...with thicker cork, and thinner cork. Of course,... I would not be leaving that wide of a gap in the slot being allowed for the control cable to past under.

 

BTW, in those photos the thicker cork is outer, darker color one, and the inner track is the thinner, lighter shade cork.

 

 

 

 

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f134kilmil

Use your standard cork & cut to fill the gaps

I use my standard cork under the turnouts. First setting the outer strips to match the track, then cutting & trimming to fill the gap in the center.

Were I to do it over, I would leave the unfilled portions vacant and fill the gap with ballast. I find putting the ballast down on top of the cork can be troublesome as it works its way into the points, frog, guard rails, etc. If you need some support to keep the track level, a small piece of scrap cork would work where needed.

Steve Miller

Steve Miller

Fredericksburg, VA

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Mark Mark_300

I used a few layers of the

I used a few layers of the drawer liner cork to gradually come down in my ft erie yard.  It sands fairly easily.. a little work.  The scenery should blend most if it I hope. (The track shutoff switch is temporary)

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Pennsy_Nut

Try to post a picture.

20in_%20.jpg 

This was a year ago when first working on the idea.

rack%201.jpg 

And there's the slide switch. Note these are all on top. And with foam underneath. Will be easy to lower down into the foam by cutting a groove. But you get the idea. Hope this helps.  Morgan Bilbo

 

Morgan Bilbo, DCS50, UR93, UT4D, SPROG IIv4, JMRI. PRR 1952.

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railandsail

I like the looks of that

I like the looks of that small slide switch, but in my case I think I need something like that mounted on its side. in my case my cable would be running right along the top of the plywood, rather then elevated up like that you show.

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jimfitch

I just used sheets of

I just used sheets of Homasote rather than deal with funky thickness problems of cork. Where there are transitions, I just mount the subroadbed at the height necessary to make the mainline cork flush with the surface of the Homasote (bottom of photo).  No muss, no fuss.

Quote:

.

Jim Fitch
northern VA

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Patrick Stanley

Best Tool I Used

for grading cork to different levels was a Stanley Surform tool. It is aggressive enough to pare the cork down quickly but also keeps the mess right there so it is easily vacuumed after the fact. Also works great for trimming that "rough edge" off of the top edge of the cork after it is separated.

Espee over Donner

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Steve Hubbard Odyknuck

My yard tracks are mounted on

My yard tracks are mounted on 3mm cork sheet and the mains are on 3/16"  Midwest roadbed.  Because my yard leads off the main were less that a foot before I was to a yard turnout ,my solution was to taper the mainline cork down to the yard and then back up to main level I did this over about  2.5' length of main.  Worked well form me.

Steve Hubbard, Chardon , Ohio area.  Modeling the C&O mid 50s
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railandsail

I was refining ' my

I was refining ' my trackplan' over here,....
https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/steel-mill-scene-in-a-corner-now-coke-plant-power-plant-12209837

And now I am doing a bit more refining as I lay cork for that area. For instance I have now removed that support post between the main level and the upper level, and replaced it with a cable attached to a ceiling joist,...
%2828%29.png 

 

hanging cable
00158-1.jpeg 

That cable will be improved, but look how it opens up that space between the decks,...big improvement. In fact it has spurred me onto relocating fueling and sanding facility (more on that later).


In the meantime I took another look at those mainline crossovers over near the wall. I had placed them like that because of the previous location of the fueling/sanding structure. Now that I am moving that I rethought the crossovers.  How about if that were re-positioned to look like this?
01049-3.jpeg 

 

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