LED sample photos

Photo 1 shows where the light strips are installed on the lower deck. They're near the front of the upper deck, where the fascia will shield them from viewers' eyes, and they throw enough light so there's light on the front of the models near the forward edge of the lower deck. There's enough light to see car numbers and such during operations and when shooting formal photos I use additional lighting units as needed. My "other life" job involves lighting and grip work for movie and TV projects so I own a decent array of tools for light modification and application, which comes in handy.

Photo 2 is a few of that same area with the LED strips turned on. Everyone has their modeling priorities and in my case, I'm not terribly concerned about multiple backdrop shadows, and I can reduce the effect, if needed, for more formal photos.

Photo 3 shows the use of a circular plastic cable clamp in place of the flat mounting clamps supplied with the light strips. This allows us to twist the light strips towards the layout and helps aim the broad "flood light" effect from the LED strips. We aren't using these everywhere but they're a handy tool for this application.

Photo 4 is a closeup of the Pinedale Mill structure under the LED lights. The small "dock lights" are warm-tint LEDs, which show up nicely as local incandescent sources in contrast to the rest of the scene in sunlight, so people can see the model under the roof overhang.

Photo 5 is a prototype photo of the spot, just FYI.

-Jeff Johnston

More formal lighting ...

When I'm working on more formal model photos, due to the overhead nature of the LED strips, I add side fill light to bring out some of the details that can be hidden, especially on dark-painted steam locomotives. I use an inexpensive LED flat panel light, a Dracast S-series DRSP-500BN, with variable intensity and variable color temperature. A piece of diffusion material helps soften the light.

The use of a variable-color-temperature light also helps when going for a specific effect such as early morning or late afternoon warm sunlight. This can also be achieved with filters.

These two photos illustrate how a bit of side light really makes things show up nicely.

Jeff Johnston

Thanks for the Lighting Suggestions

Especially the photo enhancements. I think I saw my first serous model lighting article in a mid-70's Model Railroader, and someone in the Letters page the next month pointed out that the suggested lighting would exceed the amperage budget for most modelers. Still, a lot of useful information. 

Nice to see how good, though still reasonably-priced, LED lighting can really enhance the modeling. My current lighting situation can be described as '5 minutes to eclipse', and I'll be looking to remedy that on future projects. 

Regards,

Blair Ivey

Very Interesting Info

I almost wish I had read such info before I chose my LED lighting. My lighting is described here,
https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/led-lighting-on-3-deck-layout-12216356
 

When I was first studying the subject (limited knowledge), I grouped the style lights you present 'rope lights', and thus regulated them to a lesser quality. I can see from your application and several videos, that this is not the case. Of course your background in lighting helped convince me that you knew what you were talking about.

And it looks like they would be an even easier installation than my choice.

As you pointed out there are a LOT of different qualities in these 'rope lights', so how does one make an intelligent choice?
 

My problems with

most of the 'rope' or 'strip' lighting are as follows.  They may not be relevant to anyone else:

- Most are of insufficient intensity to allow a single strip to be useful, hence you must double/triple the length you buy; those with higher intensity command a premium price, or at least did 3 years ago.

- Many are "waterproof", and it's been widely demonstrated that at least some of these 'yellow' with age, reducing intensity and shifting spectrum

- All require some form of low voltage, high current power supply and distribution.  In my case, for> 700' of layout, using 16' (5m) strips, that's 44 strips (likely x 2, see above). 

- Many are supplied with, or are supposed to work with, individual supplies.  That's a lot of individual supplies.

- Alternatively, one must purchase bulk AC/DC supplies, providing many amperes of current at 12 volts (most common type).  Many, many, large gauge DC runs, high current fusing, etc.  Just not practical.  My original estimate, for a single-rope installation, came to 2800W of DC power.  At 12V, that's just over 240 amperes of supply (of course, distributed across several 4-600W supplies; don't forget to derate those to 80%, and fanless quiet supplies will cost more than the fan-cooled ones).  So no thanks.  

Blair

@ Blair

Thanks for that analysis Blair.

I did not have the knowledge to dig that deep into the subject,...but suspecting some of those details kept me away from choosing rope/srtip lights.

Brian,

my chosen solution has it's own 'features', it's not a slam dunk.  In my case, between 180 and 200 (!) fixtures will be required.  The 4', 3', 2', 1' end-stackable (up to 5, or more, units), single row 'workshop' LED lights in the 5K - 6K range I desire are a tad more expensive than the cheapest equivalent rope lighting, but I decided I'd rather have general purpose units as opposed to throw-away LED rope.  No bulk supplies, fewer cords, and the opportunity to create custom fan-out 115 V cords (1-2, 1-3, and 1-4) were all salient factors.

But, as I've said before, YMMV.

Blair

Strip light choices

The problems Blair recounts can mostly be traced back to cheap fixtures.

Just from a specification standpoint, I'd recommend people take a look at the strip light source I originally posted: AC 5050 SMD LED Strip Lights

- Intensity: You can see from my photos that these lights are pretty bright. If you buy the cheapest LED rope lights available on Ebay, you'll likely find they aren't bright enough and the LEDs are strung together in the tube in random fashion. The SMD lights are secured in a fixed mounting array so they all aim in the same direction, also per the notes and photos in my original post.

- Yellowing with age: Another reason not to buy the cheapest light out there. I haven't seen any such reports for this specific brand of lights although I'm sure it's likely with cheap products. Yellowing of certain plastics is also a factor of exposure to UV light, among other things, and the layout is well protected from the sun's UV output. These lights aren't on for hours and days on end so that type of wear and tear, due to aging, is not a major factor either.

- Power supply: A look at the source I mentioned and the purchase options reveals these strips are available up to 150 feet long so you don't need a power supply every 6 feet or whatever the cheap units call for. They are also available in many smaller sizes ranging from 3 feet on up. There are fittings you can use to join smaller pieces end to end so, for example, you join a 12 foot and a 3 foot to fit your desired 15 foot space. That made it possible to cover our layout's lower deck with just as much strip light as we needed without any wasted strip length.

Finding a strip light that functions well and does what you need it to do on a layout in a practical and functional manner is not impossible. It requires some searching, and I did any number of web searches before I found the ones we used, but by reading the specifications you can learn what you need to know and make an informed consumer decision.

Jeff

Jeff,

Okay, I took a closer look.  For my, admittedly unusual and probably unacceptable to most solution, I'm presently looking at about $2000 CDN for my layout.  If anything, it's too bright - between 450 and 550 lumens/foot, depending on unit (and 'honesty' of the supplier, as I find some 2200 units are worse than some 1800 units from another supplier), but as my eyes age that's less and less of a problem.  

To do this with the AC5050 product (let's presume 240 lumens would be enough, so two ropes full run) would cost me $599 USD *(750 ft * 2 ropes/150' (per unit)) would be $5990 USD - Landed in Canada, that would run around $9000, in rough dollars.  So a factor of 4.5 in cost for less light (albeit, may well be enough at 240 lm/ft).  Also Dimmable, unlike my solution.  Also, one could add a third rope in Blue (though it's not currently available), so night options become feasible.  I'm not 'into' photography, and what I have and see in my basement suits me.

So.  I made my decision, but this calculation is informative; the product wasn't available in 2016, when I was looking at this issue (talking to Bill Brillinger, among others) - or at least, didn't leap out at me then.  That 4.5 factor is higher than all options considered then, but I like what I'm seeing in terms of integration and solution.  Certainly, plugging in six ropes in three circuits would be much simpler (2.3W/foot * 1500 feet means I'd want 3 lighting circuits, but I have 4 available across the layout, so that's good).

Thank you

Blair  

My experience with LED strips

Blair, let me relate your analysis to actual experience, and also give you some new numbers around watts and amps. Your points in quote bubbles, with my comments below.

Just work with the lumens per foot to get just the single-run strip you need. I experimented and found that ~160 lumens per foot was plenty bright if the strip is within 24" of the layout surface behind a valance. Here's a photo of my TOMA Siskiyou Line 2 "shadowbox" modules on display at the National Train Show ... this is 3000K and 156 lumens per foot (that visible chord goes to my Powercab throttle that's plugged in and laid on top of the shadowbox):

Now if instead you're mounting the LED strips on the ceiling and the layout top is a good 4 feet below, then you will need a LOT more lumens per foot -- something on the order of 600 lumens per foot to get a similar light level.

Quite true, so when shopping, just be careful to get strips that are not waterproof. Here's a good choice:

Here's a non-waterproof strip that's 3000K and will give this level of light, $9.99, Amazon Prime:

https://amzn.to/3eDzb0I

The strip above is ~1.1 w per foot, which for your layout would be around 800 watts. At 12 volts, that's 66 amps total power needed. Three of these 29A power supplies should do it, and give you the 20% safety margin:

12V 29A 348W Constant current power supply (with relatively quiet fan), $32, Amazon Prime:

https://amzn.to/3551JwJ

The strip I list above for $9.99 comes with no power adapter, so you aren't buying something you don't need.

Three power supplies with reasonably quiet fans for your entire layout that come with short circuit protection, overload protection, over-voltage protection, over-current protection, overheating protection, designed for constant current and constant voltage for ~$100 total is hardly the headache you describe.

LED Strip Dimmer

In case you would like to dim the lighting for twilight effects or some such, here is what I have used:

LED Strip Dimmer

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RT498TN/ref=dp_prsubs_1

$9.59 for 2 pieces.

Rob Morrison

Seems like most of the

Seems like most of the interest in LED lighting is light strips.  Has anyone taken a serious look at patio light strings and regular LED bulbs?  I've seen regular LED bulbs as a retrofit to LEDs from either incandescent or CFL bulbs but not for new construction.  I'm assuming LED strips give better light quantity/quality for the $ but when I look at patio light strings for about $1 per foot with 18" socket spacing and LED 60 watt equivalent (about 9 watts actual) bulbs going for $1 a piece and about 750 lumens each you can put about 500 lumens per foot out for $2 a foot.  I'm guessing a regular bulb isn't as directional as a light strip some maybe you aren't getting as much on the layout.  I'm thinking of a layout height of 54" with a 90" ceiling height with a 10" valance with the patio light strings hung from the ceiling so the closest part of the bulb would be about 30" from the layout surface.

Has anyone taken a serious look at regular LED bulbs?

Yes. I've been using bulbs for years. The progression has been:

Incandescent.....CFL........Cree LED bulbs........Clear Edison LED bulbs.

I do a lot of photography so high CRI and color temp is critical to me which has been a factor in the constant search. 

My experience and 24vdc FTW!

In my experience and after purchasing 5 or 6 different strips, I'm personally committed to 24v DC, double width, high quantity (600+), 5050 LED's. I have tried many 12v strips, and for my behind backdrop RGB+W strips, 12v DC is fine. Or possibly if you have a quite low "throw" distance, that is, if your valance is 12"-16" from the layout you may get away with the 12v DC strips. In my case, I have a throw of around 36", as you'll see in some of my under construction or during installation pictures below. Lumens is key, the throw distance is the controlling factor. As for color, I think this may be more of a use case or personal preference, as in if you take many photo's or the like in Joe's case. Personally I prefer 4700-5000k, and use RGB to "warm" this color and to provide timed color differences by using some yellow in the morning, some yellow and a touch of red for evening, and blue for night. For me, I don't like an all blue night lighting effect, I find it too difficult to read car numbers and the like. So I choose to use a quite low setting on my primary 5000k white LED's, with a medium level on the blue of the RGB. In my case I haven't had any luck with a single, double wide strip to do both white and RGB lighting. I do use a single strip for white and an additional with an RGB+W strip.

Heat can also be a problem, or shorten the life of the LED's. So I've opted for a 1" angled aluminum strip, with the double width, white LED's facing directly down on the angle, so that I get very good lighting on the front edge. With the RGB+W strip on the vertical surface of the angle so it largely throws the color on the backdrop. When in night operations then, the layout is lit dimly in white from the primary strip and the sky is lit mostly in blue. With an additional strip under the edge of the fascia for reading operations paperwork, it seems to do what I want.

On power supplies, 12 and 24vdc power supplies are pretty cheap. They are all from China, of course, but I got mine from AliExpress for $20-$40 depending on amps. I would recommend staying away from repurposing computer power supplies as they have a pretty wide tolerance or range of voltages and the cheap, regulated power supplies are much more consistent and that is the life of your LED's. You can see mine below the layout, where normally covered up by skirting, and a door, in a wall mount enclosure. With this arrangement, all I have running between the JMRI computer that's in an adjoining room is a single ethernet cable carrying DMX control.

One additional comment, on control. Many may be happy enough with a simple dimmer mounted somewhere, and that's easy, but opt for a PWM based dimmer. I wanted mine to operate automagically by fast clock data. I started using ESP boards and MQTT to exchange data between JMRI and the lighting. Nothing against this option, and I use the ESP boards for turnout control, signaling, and accessory lighting control. However, I have since opted to use DMX control, as is used in stage lighting and professional lighting control applications. A reasonably inexpensive USB-to-DMX adapter is available on Amazon and DMX controllers that support 12 or 24v are affordable as well. The controller I'm using provides 30 channels! Which RGB takes 3 channels, and RGB+W takes 4, obviously. My controller lets me split half the channels to one power supply and the other half to another, for wattage considerations or in my case so I can use 24v for my primary white lighting and 12v for the RGB stuff. I'm also using some spot lights to solve some dark corner issues and as highlight lighting and to provide for some natural shadows and there are many DMX integrated spot lamps available. Many DMX installs would use the larger, 3 pin XLR cables as used for microphones and other audio equipment. However, you can, as I do, use regular cat5/6 ethernet cables and there are adapters available, but they are simple enough to solder up from XLR connectors and ethernet keystones if you were so inclined. In my case I have the controller with the power supply and the actual DMX cables are very short and are with my power supplies in a wall mounted enclosure. If you had a larger layout you may want to distribute your DMX controllers and daisy chain XLR or ethernet between the controllers. Regardless, you just daisy chain the DMX equipment much as you would fascia mounted throttle plugs. As always, YMMV but DMX seems like the best option for me personally.

Forgive my images, this was while I was installing, while wires are hanging temporarily, before I got  the peninsula hung from the ceiling, and while I had the skirting taken down. It does look much better now. One side note, I did reduce the valance from the 12" I started with, as it tends to shade the front edge, and now believe 4-6" to be about right.

All the best,

Andy