Prof_Klyzlr

Dear MRHers,

Having found myself (unexpectedly) faced with a small fleet of DCC locos,
with a variety of decoders from the major US-manufs,
(and a couple of oddballs, not to mention any "visiting units" that need help)

I'm seriously considering building a custom DCC test/programming rescue toolbox ("throw-pack").

While the basics of such a rig have been covered here onlist previously, my particular G&Ds seem to circling around needing a Win10-based "brain" to support (in no particular order of preference or importance)
- JMRI via NCE PowerCab
- LokProgrammer
- (Optional/bonus points) JMRI via "DCC++"
- (Optional Extra-Bonus points) ISE PT host-rig

Allowing for a bit of "IT DIY" in the build stage, there seems to be three possible contenders for the "brain":
(again, in no particular order of preference)

- a Laptop of some description
(Likely refurb out of my personal stash of old units, although this would involve ensuring it was up to the task of running Win10, and the associated OS purchase)

- a Lenovo M-series "tiny", DELL Optiplex "micro", or similar "NUC" type computer
(eBay refurbs available turnkey, with Win10 OS installed via VLK)

- (Out-there Bonus Points option) A Raspberry Pi 4 B 4Gb version running Win10 ARM Desktop.
https://worproject.ml/
/>
NB that once "built into the throw-pack rig",
this "computer" will not be used for anything beyond the DCC Throwpack duties.
It will be carrying my archive of DCC Reference docs (cue Adobe Reader),
and may be required to use it's WiFi for occasional as-needed web-connection 
(grab DCC docs on-the-fly for previously-unseen decoders)
and/or as an emergency "JMRI WiiThrottle Access Point" rig,
but nothing beyond that...

Seems like a no-brainer, right? The Laptop option effectively gives the "computer",
plus a pre-connected monitor and keyboard/mouse, all in the one "box",
and if I can rehab one of my old laptops, the cost is basically "the cost of the OS"
(and maybe a new PSU + Battery + BIOS battery, I want this to be a "Toolbox I can rely on" on the road for a long-time into the future...)

but...

...I'd really like to integrate the "brains" into the "Toolbox", making for a single-physical-box "pick-up and go" throw-pack situation.

IE Having to haul a "test track" lump of hardware (track, interfaces, cables, PwrCab throttle, etc),
_and_ a seperate (dedicated) laptop + PSU, plus Mains Powerstrip and distro,
means I'm just having to "haul more stuff" to wherever the DCC rescue mission is at,
and will take more/longer "plugging boxes together" to get operational once we get to the Rescue location...

(I also have the intent to build the unit such that the LCD monitor is mounted-and-powered within the box,
and the wireless Keyboard/mouse rig has a slot it can sit in for transport within the box...
...IE "flip the lid/monitor up, flip the KB/mouse panel down,
plug in a single PSU/power-cable,
boot-up and begin the mission...").

Soo, If we take this "make it all fit in one physical box" desire as writ,
and accept the cost of a relatively-small LCD monitor + wireless keyboard+mouse to suit the physical-box-install as essentially equal between the "Lenovo/Dell" and "Raspberry Pi4" options...

...we are left with the questions of:
- "can the chosen unit be stealthily and compact-ly integrated into the box?" (Points to the RasPi solution)
- Usability (all options have enough USB ports and suchlike to handle the required Interfaces, so it's a wash)
- Reliability (I want a "first time, every time, bet your layout's life on it" performance for exhibition use)
- Price

...and FWIW, down here in Aust:
- Lenovo m92p refurb : AUD$170
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Lenovo-m92p-Tiny-PC-mini-computer-NUC-usff/174422441730?hash=item289c633f02:g:Af8AAOSwFNZfM3Ob
/>
- DELL M90x0 refurb : AUD$270
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Dell-9020M-Micro-tiny-PC-COMPUTER-i5-4590T-2GHZ-4Gb-8GB-500GB-128GB-SSD-win10/283984038097?hash=item421ec488d1:g:iYgAAOSwCZRfPQA3
/>
- RasPi 4B turnkey kit : AUD$195
https://www.littlebird.com.au/products/little-bird-raspberry-pi-4-essentials-kit-4gb 
/> (The RasPi 4B Win10 OS setup will be a minor "science experiment", but initial blush looks promising...)

So, what say ye? If you've gotten this far and the above makes some sense,
then I'm hoping you'll have enough understanding of the project to see around (and shine some light into)
any corners I've missed...

Happy Modelling,
Aiming to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Reply 0
Geoff Bunza geoffb

@Prof re:Options

Hi Prof,

I use 2 variations of your alternatives. Some of my experiences may have some bearing on your questions. Both of my set ups are used for clinic demos, and testing out variations of decoders and animations.

First, I built into a plastic and aluminum case (similar to the commercial line of "Zero" cases, a full set up of a Digitrax system with DCS200, power supply, Locobuffer, DT400 throttle, cables and power supply, and a small "netbook" PC running Windows 7. It all barely fits. Track is only a small 14" segment and I usually opt for one or two three foot segments carried externally. The biggest issue for me is the "wall wort" power supplies are bulky with power cords and cables, and are the heaviest things in the lot! Cables have broken at connection points in use - travel is much tougher than the layout room. I have taken to add a repair tool kit with a small soldering iron and tools. Spare cables become a pain quickly. I tried to do this without a PC, screen, and mouse, but it is just too much of a time sink to be without them. I usually have a 10' power extension cord too.

I also have a boxed "kit" consisting of an RPi 3B+ driving an UNO-based DCC++ unit. I have a small 7" and 10" HDMI display for the RPi, with a small wireless mouse, and a miniature keyboard, and 3 power supplies (RPi, monitor, and DCC++). This is used typically for animation demos. I simply do not trust the DCC++ unit for universal DCC decoder programming - too much inconsistency and failure. I use this particularly with Wfif throttles. For operations, this usually works well. I tend to package in plastic bags in a box. Again, power supplies are the biggest hassle. I'm sure I could get them down to 2, but never bothered. Screens so small are a pain. I'm sure I could re-package everything into a case, and fix the screen into the top of the cover, maybe even having a larger screen. For demo's, I have no overwhelming need. The best packaging is still a small laptop. Don't go looking for overwhelming laptop performance - it is not worth it. I have a laptop running WinXp and JMRI - it does work, just don't run large panels and automation with it. Small screens and the RPi make life a bit tedious, but it does work. I typically operate via Wifi control, and do updates to software via wired LAN. At home I can VNC connect and ignore the display, keyboard, and local mouse.

General notes for you:
A separate laptop is the most compact form of processor, display, and keyboard.
Multiple power sources consume space and are heavy.
Small wireless mice are best for these applications.
A small netbook PC with wireless running VNC might eliminate the KB, and display for the RPi - I have not
     used this configuration yet.
If you are going to use this for DCC programming, then you must account for software upgrades,
     documentation reading, and stable power, and the ability to read the display comfortably.
You can use the mousepad on the laptop, but a small wireless mouse will cause less frustration in use.
Getting everything into a single case is worth pursuing the "riight" case.

'Hope some of this is useful for your decision. Have fun! 
Best regards,
Geoff
 

Geoff Bunza's Blog Index: https://mrhmag.com/blog/geoff-bunza
More Scale Model Animation videos at: https://www.youtube.com/user/DrGeoffB
Home page: http://www.scalemodelanimation.com

Reply 0
barr_ceo

My experience...

Several years ago with a Lenovo Netbook running Windows 7 was that the hard drive is the most fragile part of this proposed setup. yhe kind of transport system you're talking about is likely to be harder on your drive (more bouncing around) than a computer bag. Have a backup plan for the hard drive going bad.... use a SSHD, bootable CD or USB sticks... and know how to get to them.

The other issue is Windows likes to update, regardless of what YOU want, and usually at the most inconvenient time for you. This is especially annoying on systems that aren't used often, Not sure what you can do about that, just one of the reasons I prefer Mac iOS.

 

A cautionary tale...

A LONG time ago, I tried to build a system to transport my MIDI setup in a similar manner. The two pieces that determined the dimensions were the Commodore 64 computer (I said it was a LONG time ago...) and the CRT for it. I also had  a 5.25" disk drive, cables, and assorted interface gadgets.

I measured very carefully, did several drawings to scale, and decided I could get the whole thing into the back seat of my Ford Taurus with room to spare. I built the whole thing out of 1/4 in plywood, reinforced with aluminum angle on the edges and covered in tan naugahide. (It took 3 Nauga's to cover it!)

After finishing it up, I went to test fit it into the back seat... and discovered I'd forgotton something, While it would fit in the bac seet, it would NOT fit past  the back door, unless I took the door off it's hinges, Oops....   Nevermind,,,

 

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