Have you tried graphite?

Paul: As you may have noticed in other forums on MRH. Many mentions of using graphite on rails. Clean your track with your favorite cleaner, latest recommendation is Mineral Spirits. Wipe a slight dab of plain graphite/available at Michaels and such. Just a dab about an inch. Go about 12" more and do another dab. Use cars, etc. to spread it. That improves electrical pickup. The only place where it might not work and your "keep alives" will is with short wheelbase locos/like your 44 tonner. IMHO it's a little expensive to have to put "keep alives" in every loco. This is just a suggestion. But a proven solution to track cleaning and DCC likes it.

Links

Here's a few for adding KA's to an existing Soundtraxx decoder:  http://www.dccguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Keep-alive-website.pdf

https://tonystrains.com/news/how-to-add-current-keeper-to-soundtraxx-tsunami-decoders/

For assistance in cramming this stuff into a locomotive, I'd recommend looking through TCS' website for installs. While they are entirely for their TCS kits (which I'm a fan of), they're also extremely useful in gathering ideas for opening the shell, rewiring, and checking available clearances. They have photos and tutorials for virtually every locomotive on the market.  https://tcsdcc.com/installations/wowsound

Double Approach

Each decoder manufacturer will have, (should have), documentation on wiring capacitors to their decoders. 
 

I went with KA-2s recently in my Athearn GP7s and what a difference!  Smooth running even at low speeds over turnouts.  

However capacitors should be considered just a part of your overall arsenal to insure smooth running, not as a fix for track and wiring issues.  So in addition to adding capacitors to your locomotives, I would also look at what other issues are causing poor performance on your layout.

Joe

Stay Alive

Hi Paul--I can't help with all of your questions, but this should help.

You may find what you need here: http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/mainnorth/alive.htm

For the TSU-PNP decoders there is a socket for connecting stay-alives on the board. With the decoder topside up and looking into the socket, the pin on the left is for the blue wire. Soundtraxx can provide a connector, but it is much more economical to go to Digi-Key and get a few.

Here is what you need, called a jumper, with a connector on both ends, so buying a single jumper gets you two connectors. Just cut and solder the wires to your stay alive device.

https://www.digikey.com/products/en?keywords=455-3017-ND

Steve Hoxie

Pensacola FL

Digitrax stay alive

I have only experiance with SDXN136PS for adding a stay alive. At least for the serie 6 decoders, they have a specific positive pin  for the stay alive, contrary to other manufacturers, like Zimo.

I never seen any info about it from Digitrax, but for the SDXN136PS, I looked at photos of their own stay alive with the corresponding connector (I have 3 Digitrax Power extender, and 3 self made).

But that wiill not help you much for your type of decoder.

By the way, Digitrax has a "bug" with stay alive: only at high motor speed will the motor continue to turn from the stay alive. Below, they stop it, but the sound continues for a long long time. I don't understand the reason, but I have confirmed it with the Digitrax help desk. So most pick-up problems will be resolved with a stay alive (as the loco often just stop before restarting), but dead frog will still stall the loco, if you are running at low speed.

Hopefully this might help

Paul,

The Soundtraxx decoders can be extened with Soundtraxx " Current Keepers " that can plug into either TSU or ECO decoders.  The TSU-1100 is a little different as it has no " plug " availaible..but you cant attach a keep alive to two wires identified in the link below. Most of the information you are looking for on Soundtraxx can be found here..I have zero information with ESU decoders. 

https://soundtraxx.com/content/Reference/Manuals/Tsunami2/Installation-Guide.pdf

 

 

Expectations Will Be Met

"Capacitor assistance" is the all-time best remedy for frogs, dirty track, sintered wheels, flickering headlights, and on and on.  A stay-alive can take the poorest-running loco on your layout (within reason), and make it run better than what was your best.  Seriously... can't say enough about staying alive.  The handful of MRH articles - and the You Tube video links they offer - make construction rather easy, if you're adept whatsoever at such projects. Don't be afraid to tailor the shape of your stay alive to fit the loco.  Genesis Fs, for example, accept a square design (right behind the decoder, if memory serves).  Most other diesels seem to favor a long and skinny design.  But you can even build them in pieces, such as a couple caps and the regulator in a front cavity, the remaining caps in a rear cavity, and all wired together accordingly. Get creative... whatever it takes - it will be worth it.

Whether a four-unit consist leading a long freight or a single unit handling the local, the level of joy obtained with perfect, uninterrupted performance is hard to describe.  It takes the layout part of our hobby to a whole new level.

. . .

But you people are not addressing his concern.. Where to solder the two (2) wires.  Most of the decoders he mentions have no provisions or socket for the Current-Keeper or any Keep-Alive;  DIY  or other. 

So what  he wants is " solder blue here and black there "  and that is not simple to determine decoder to decoder.  You might be ok, you might only KA the sound and not motor. You might even blow the decoder.

It takes some knowledge to answer this question or  (best) :   the decoder in question in hand.  Anything else is pure speculation and guestimation on our part.   I wrote something up for him, then pulled it off.  

Most of the online guide say to find the bridge rectifier (4 diodes) and tie into that. Could also be a Zener diode. It takes a very good picture in high res to even make an educated guess at were to solder the two (2) wires.. it is only two (2)  but thos two (2)  can make or break the decoder.

Marc 

  "I have enormous

I think you'll be very pleased with the performance after your keep alives are installed. I can't help you with where the wires go because I've only installed keep alives on Economi decoders that have a plug built in. I usually start at Tony's train exchange when I have decoder questions so you might look there....DaveB

usable Information

marcfo68 - the information I posted was exactly what he needed for SoundTraxx decoders. The picture I provided IS a picture of a SoundTraxx TSU-PNP decoder with a socket he relates to being installed in his Bachman RS3. The Instalation link provided for the pdf shows the wiring and connections needed for using the included capcitor with the decoder or where to connect a current keeper to the TSU-1100 and other TSU or Economi decoders.

I did not comment on the Digitrax or ESU and I really do not have any experience with those decoders. Four of his six decoders to have current keepers or stay alives install needs have been addressed. 

Specific instructions for Soundtraxx Current Keeper

https://soundtraxx.com/content/Reference/Documentation/Reference-Documents/currentkeeper-pkgincert.pdf

Wiring KA’s

I have standardized on Soundtraxx decoders so I will only offer how I wire the TCS KA2 and KA4’s to them. On the PNP series I use the plug that Soundtraxx also sells. The blue wire to blue wire on The plug and the black wire on the plug to the white and black wire on the KA2 or KA4. On the TSU-1100 wire the blue wire to blue wire and the black and white wire on the KA2 or KA4 to the green and yellow wire on the decoder. If you use a decoder buddy there are solder pads for keep alive on the board.

So Is there a simple DCC decoder with KA/SA connection

After going through all the above replies and the related documentation references, is there a simple inexpensive (4 function) decoder with explicit exposed solder points for a keep alive.  I have a local source for full Stay/Keep Alive boards and capacitors for about $ 14 including postage and I want to test one without complications of sound or any other features. 

It seems every decoder manufacturer has a complex expensive proprietary solution rather than an open solution. I have looked at all the above documentation and  none of it is for a simple DCC Decoder controlling the minimal functions such as speed, direction, lights and maybe bell/horn. 

NCE D13J

Try the NCE D13J

Photo of back side attached.

Connections clearly marked

This is my standard with a KA-1

Howard Garner 

TCS

Dear Ken,

I'd recommend TCS, They typically equip their decoders with a "Black with White Stripe" wire which is the Decoder power GROUND. This, plus the standard "BLUE Decoder Positive" (Function Common) give access to all you need for a stock 2-wire KA/CK/SA unit. 

The OPs issue is that some of the decoders mentioned predate the "rise in popularity" of bolt-on KA/CK/SA units, and thus do not make _easy_ provision for such.

Happy Modelling,

Aim to Improve,

Prof Klyzlr

Finding the KA/SA connection points

Yes, we covered finding the connection points for any decoder in the May 2019 issue of MRH:
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/mrhpub.com/2019-05-may/online/index.html?page=49

Amazing what you can find in them there MRH magazines ... 

Stay / Keep Alive

First let me apologies for the spelling mistake "Ailve". Second I thank all of you for responding to the thread.

The expectation for me is clearly to significantly improve the performance of my locos on my layout that currently is abysmal. I spend so much time cleaning the track and virtually none running my trains. Many moons ago I posted about track cleaning because that was my only solutions to the stuttering locos. From what I gather Stay / Keep Alive is perhaps not the silver bullet but maybe the bronze medal. Accordingly I'm really looking forward to finish this project.

Clearly the questions does not have a straight forward answer, ie it's not easy to determine where the wires need to go. Digitrax unless you have a series 6 decoder there is no place to add an Stay Alive. The DH165A0 has no where to allow a Keep Alive. Soundtraxx have been the most helpful to me with where on their decoder the wires go. I fully endorse Soundtraxx because of their assistance.

Again to all of you thank you so much for the attention and responses you have provided.

Cheers

Paul

Keep Alive vs Stay Alive

Is there a difference in this two? Can someone define the 2 terms more thoroughly?

I recently saw this short video that seemed to suggest they are different 'operations/solutions'  ??

No

Brian,

The difference between "Stay Alive" and "Keep Alive" is essentially...

...which company's product you're looking at.

At a circuitry level, it's all just a capacitor of some-capacity, a couple of components to protect and limit the current, and possibly some "smart circuitry" (notably in the case of the ESU option), to allow "intelligent disable" of the capacitor during programming...

...of course, wire the layout properly + AWP + Graphite, (IE The Basics)

and the "need" for KA/SA/CK becomes significantly reduced...

Happy Modelling,

Aim to Improve,

Prof Klyzlr

Next time...

I have not used stay alives of any kind.  I solved the problem in a different way.  I have noticed by reading that there are very few decoders, particularly the older ones that have an easy place to get to a place to solder the two wires.  My response to the situation is to add three clearly labeled pads to the Decoder Buddy.  Ground and U+ have always been present for a stay alive.  It became apparent that a third control wire was necessary to control the ESU Power Pack. The Decoder Buddy V5B has the three required solder pads.  Two of the solder pads are used for a non controlled type stay alive.  The original Decoder Buddy has two pads and a fairly reasonable fix for attaching a control wire when necessary.  I will add a wire on request at no extra charge.  The Decoder Buddy Mini has provisions for both the LokSound 4 and LokSound 5 21-pin decoders.

I may have to use a stay alive for a short wheelbase Athearn blue box SW1500 in which I have installed a Decoder Buddy Mini speaker and a sound decoder.  Time will tell.  If I do, I will post the result.

Nuts and bolts first

Like so many things, people seem to skip over the nuts and bolts of things before jumping to band-aid solutions. If you want to put stay alives in locomotives, that's fine, but don't do it until they run reliably without them. If you're putting them in because your track is disgusting, your turnouts don't conduct power properly, or your locomotives have poor pickup, well, you're just putting a band-aid over the problem. Get them to run reliably FIRST, then if you still want stay alives for the once in a blue moon cutout, put the effort and cost into putting them in.

Discussion of stay alives before getting the trains to run reliably without them is like the prototype where people talk about mag levs and hyperloops while the local commuter line doesn't have enough parking and the platforms are too short.