railandsail

Over the past year or so I purchased some LED lighting from Amazon,...all of it Barrina brand. My initial purchases was 6 of the 4000K units

Later I ended up getting some of those 6500K strips, and some 5000K strips. I'm now trying to determine which lights I am going to use on each level of my layout,...upper deck, main deck 18" under that, the staging deck 8"under that.

I initially mounted the 4000K lights on the ceiling of the shed to light up that upper deck. I am now reconsidering putting them down in the staging area as they just are not as bright as I might wish to try to light up that upper deck from their higher ceiling mounting. One thing I did like about them is you could look at then directly without as much 'glare/intensity' as the higher K ones present.

original 4000K unit




the 5000K units


 

 

Here are the 3 types laid next to one another,...6500K, then 5000K, then 4000K



then contrasting 6500K with 4000K





The 6500 ones definitely have a noticeable blue tint,...and that makes me a little nervous.

Doesn't the upper portion of the sky have a noticeable blue tint??

PS: I tried taking these photos without any flash,...and I did NOT color correct them.

Brian

1) First Ideas: Help Designing Dbl-Deck Plan in Dedicated Shed
2) Next Idea: Another Interesting Trackplan to Consider
3) Final Plan: Trans-Continental Connector

Reply 0
railandsail

Angled mounting & Visor supplement?

I am also debating as to whether to angle those upper ceiling ones with respect to the sloping ceiling,...and whether to providing any view blocking screen/visor to them that might inhibit direct eye contact with the 'bulb' itself.

 

 

Reply 0
Steve Watson SteveWatson

Valences....

....are a great idea. Yes, I think it's a good idea to hide the fixture, so you only see the light falling on the scene itself.

6500K does seem a little high. I am using daylight fluorescents at about 5000K. I do wish LED tech had been a few years more more advanced, as I would prefer something like the system you have (or else the low-voltage strip LEDs) instead of the traditional bulky rectangular fixtures, with 120V wiring in conduit.

 

Reply 0
railandsail

Valence?

But if I use a valence/visor on those ceiling ones,.... then I wonder about my 'room lighting' for the aisles etc??

Reply 0
railandsail

Solid or see-thru valence

I was looking for a solid piece of material that might be attached to the side of that LED light fixture,...then had a second thought, why not a semi-transparent one? Here is my 'tracing paper' valence.

mage(14).png 

 

mage(16).png 

But I would worry about that being a fire hazard. 

What other thin, transparent material might I use??...maybe some very thin metallic mesh material, or maybe spray coat that paper,...?

 

 

 

Reply 0
Steve kleszyk

What about lowering them?

I have similar LEDs  @ 6500.  I had seen a blue tint to the lights and found part of the "problem" is the blue is being picked up from all the sky color and nothing else in the area to offset it.  I actually  took along piece of cardboard, gave a rough shape of the backdrop, painted it a quick green and propped it up..... the blue went away enough that I couldn't notice.  I also didn't seen in pictures either. 

Consider adding an upper valance so you can lower the lighting closer to the layout - if it fits YOUR planned theme.  This will cut down on the amount of blue being picked up and may allow you to use either 5000 or 4000 lights. 

One other thing you want to try a pair of 4000/5000 lights in place of the single 6500. If the lower  rated lights aren't actually producing the blue, and the 6500 is, it might solve your blue issue and provide enough light at the original height... then again it might be too much light.  

Good luck and keep us posted

Steve

Reply 0
eastwind

more fixtures

For best results, don't try to use the same strip to light both the upper level of the layout and the aisle. Get something dimmable with wide dispersion and center it over the aisle, and get something brighter and put it behind an opaque valence so it shines only on one deck of the layout.

When you're working on the layout you can crank up the aisle light, and when you're operating you can dim the aisle down so the layout 'pops'. 

You can call me EW. Here's my blog index

Reply 0
railandsail

Valence Material

Wow, I think I just found my valence material. Its a huge piece of thin transparent plastic that is salvaged out of those big screen TV's.

Turns out we had a fellow here at out local flea market that use to take a lot of these big screen TV's apart to salvage various items. In many cases there were these large sheets of plastic inside (I don't know their function), and in many cases he had no use for this big stockpile of plastic sheets. I on the other hand kind of figured I might find some use for them down the road.

I had forgotten all about them lying under one of my beds, just waiting to be rediscovered. I have at least 5 different types/thicknesses. I'll get a photo soon. I figured they can be cut into strips and maybe double tape adhered to one side of the LED light fixture where the paper valence is now.

 

 

Reply 0
railandsail

Dimmable

@Eastwind,

I gave some thought to that dimmable idea a while back, but the LED's I purchased are not the dimmable type (at lease to my current knowledge).

Maybe I will address that possibility in the future, but at this time i just need to get some track laid and some trains running.

I had to address this lighting situation right away so I could decide which lights were going down in staging,.... that I hope to start laying track in a few days. Plus I have withdrawn a number of my 'mock-up' structures to unclutter a few areas where I will be withdrawing the multiple decks to the outdoor work bench/table. So that was a good time to look at what overhead lights I finalize for those areas and how I might mount them.

 

 

Reply 0
eastwind

I was only suggesting

I was only suggesting dimmable for the aisle leds, and I was assuming since you weren't planning aisle lighting, you hadn't bought those yet. I'd still go with opaque valence for the layout.

You can call me EW. Here's my blog index

Reply 0
railandsail

Super Bright vs Daylight Glow

As I have mentioned I have some of these LED lights in both 4000K (daylight glow) and 6500K (super bright). And I have some 2' long ones in addition to the majority 4' long ones.

So yesterday I was playing with how I might distribute them around the layout. In particular I was trying to intermix some of the short ones (6500K) with the long ones (4000K),..down in the corner over my coal mine scene and lumber pond. That's when the color differences jumped out at me! I have to admit to being a little color blind, so perhaps that is why I had not picked up on this significant difference before. WOW, those 6500K units put out a blueish color that just made things on the deck seemed 'washed out' . While the brighter units would seem to offer more light, it was a light that looked more washed out.

Even though they were brighter, they didn't provide as good a light as the 4000K units. I'm going to have to give serious considerations to replacing those 6500K units with the 4000K units. I may even have to consider replacing the 5000K units I purchased with 4000K units.

 

 

I thought I had my whole lighting plan firmed up, and all product on hand,.... now I have to reconsider.

Reply 0
Lancaster Central RR

I would keep them the same color.

Using a constant color will look better when everything is finished. 

Lancaster Central Railroad &

Philadelphia & Baltimore Central RR &

Lancaster, Oxford & Southern Transportation Co. 

Shawn H. , modeling 1980 in Lancaster county, PA - alternative history of local  railroads. 

Reply 0
Wazzzy

Decide on a color range and

Decide on a color range and make it your standard for everywhere. When you order your lights, get extras. It is good practice to get all the lights at one time to ensure they all come from the same lot #. This will ensure continuity of the color spectrum across all the lights. Extra lights can be used in your work shop and painting area. Working on a project with the same light color spectrum will provide the same finished model "color" when moved to the layout. 

I chose to use 5000K for illuminating the upper deck and most of the bottom deck. (upper deck is narrow) A solid valance directs the light towards the layout. LED light strips will be used under the top deck to brighten up the bottom deck and help reduce shadows. I have separate general lighting over the walkways.

Trial and error until your results are favorable.

Keep us posted.

Alan Loizeaux

CEO  Empire Trackworks   (Empire-Trackworks.com)

Modeling ON30 DRG

Husband, Father, Grandpa, Retired Military, Conductor / Yard Master Norfolk Southern, custom track work builder (S, SN3, On3, On30 & others)

Reply 0
railandsail

Chose one color range

Alan & Shawn,
I have decided to do exactly that. Those blue tinted lights were just NOT appealing to me,...seemed to wash out true colors of items on the deck. So I'm going to see what I can work out with amazon (if possible) to exchange those 6500K units with 4000K units to match those LED's I had purchased originally. Those 'daylight glow' 4000K units just put out a much more pleasant color.

EDIT: I've been able to work out a deal,...so I will be buying two more batches of 4000K lights to make all of my primary layout decks all lit with 4000K lights. I will take the 5000K set I have and use them in my 3 staging areas,...so my staging will be very well lit.

EDIT #2: just found this image on another LED subject thread I'm rereading. Wish I taken a closer look when I was first looking at the subject of LEDs. ....posted by JimB

 

 

 

Reply 0
railandsail

For best results, don't try

Quote:

For best results, don't try to use the same strip to light both the upper level of the layout and the aisle. Get something dimmable with wide dispersion and center it over the aisle, and get something brighter and put it behind an opaque valence so it shines only on one deck of the layout.

When you're working on the layout you can crank up the aisle light, and when you're operating you can dim the aisle down so the layout 'pops'. 

Eastwind

 

I did a little experimenting yesterday with solid visors rather the transparent ones for those ceiling lights over the majority of the upper deck, and I think I am going to take your advice. Yes the layout itself seems to 'pop' when the lighting is separated.

But I can't exactly visor off those lights directly above the center peninsula, so I'll likely depend on those for aisle lighting as well.

Reply 0
railandsail

'Visors' for Lighting

I'm terming them visors rather than valences, as they are individual to each strip light.

Turns out I had several scraps of plastic venetion-blind material that were approx the correct width to make visors for those LED lights,...and they were a light weight plastic that might be glued to one of the edges of the LED strips. they were not the correct length (too much to hope for),...but here is the general idea of how it might look....
75416-1.jpeg 

 

75512-2.jpeg 
Those 2 are thicker plastic blinds.

 

This is a thinner material I only had one of,..
75746-3.jpeg 
 

75836-4.jpeg 

 

75932-5.jpeg 

 

 

 

 

Reply 0
trainzluvr

Commercial Electric 4ft 4000K shop light

I bought a boatload of these:  https://www.homedepot.ca/product/commercial-electric-4ft-white-linkable-shop-light-3200lumen-4000k-50000hours-1pk/1001512104

They are 4000K and ultra thin/flat and pretty bright. I would never go over 4100K because anything beyond that is damaging to the eyes, especially in areas where you are going to spend hours upon hours staring at miniature details.

 


YouTube channel: Trainz Luvr
Website: Trains Luvr

Reply 0
trainzluvr

Forgot to post a photo of my

Forgot to post a photo of my staging, haven't done the lights inside the layout room yet:

Also need to mount the valance and fascia in this area, but since I'm still working on the electrical items, they are last to do.

 


YouTube channel: Trainz Luvr
Website: Trains Luvr

Reply 0
railandsail

Plastic Visors vs Metal Valance

Went by my local metal scrap yard today to see if there were any items that might give me inspirations. There were a couple of bent up pieces of 'drip edge' that made me want to look into their use.

I dropped by my local Home Depot and first visited their venetion-blind area. I discovered the vertical kits of vinyl materials that were about 3" wide and 10 foot long. The pieces were approx the same thickness of my sample piece. And it was pretty cheap,...about 11.50 for 9 pieces. This would work,...but might still present some challenges with mounting.

I then wondered over to a selection of 'metal drip edge'. Wow, a selection of different types, most very thin lightweight metal, most 10 foot long,...and very reasonable prices.

 

I really like the idea on being able to easily attach those LED lights onto one of the 2 inner surfaces of these drip edges, then easily screw mount those to my ceiling.

Plus now I can use a continuous 10 foot strip down each side of the shed,...have to refer to it as a valance now rather than a visor. It will also hind the connecting wiring between the LED strips. And the exterior surface can be painted blue to match my sky color.

Thanks to all that convinced me I needed to look at the valance idea.


 

Reply 0
eastwind

light temperature

Photographers have long known that mid-day is not the time to take good pictures, because the sunlight looks harsh and washes out colors. Landscape and human models both look worse in the noonday sun. 

It's a taste thing, but few people seem to prefer anything over 4000. I myself prefer the warm orangey light around 2700. 

I am buying recessed LED ceiling lights (6" spots) that have a color temperature setting (2700, 3000, 3500, 4000 or 5000). It's a switch on the side of the ballast, so not too easy to mess with after installation, but possible if I end up not liking what I start with.

You can call me EW. Here's my blog index

Reply 0
DaleMierzwik

I am using 2"x2" light gauge

I am using 2"x2" light gauge sheet metal angle for a valance that I got from a local sheet metal shop. Don't recall the cost, but I do remember it was considerably cheaper than Home depot for something similar, only without the drip edge which you don't need anyway. In my opinion it works great.

Dale


Reply 0
DaleMierzwik

Here is a pic

light.jpg 

 

This is a magnetic LED 3500 degree light on the 2x2 light gauge angle

Dale


Reply 0
railandsail

Semi-final lighting photos

I ended up mixing the 2 subjects of LEDs and redoing my blue sky color into 2 different subject thread,..sorry.

Here are some photos of my lastest LED lighting with the valences I made out of drip-edge metal extrustions

05249-1.jpeg 

 

 

05353-2.jpeg 

 

There were still two lights on the other end that I was wondering how to handle. I decided to do the same valences on them but placed at a slight angle. (they are also still their original white color as I have not painted them the blue sky color yet.
05740-3.jpeg 
 

05823-4.jpeg 

 

I then went down to the deck below where I felt the lighting in the corner was not so good due to the single light out at the edge being just a little too far away. So I added a second LED tube to the underside of that deck using some small 90 degree alum brackets glued to the backside of the LED tube, and screwed into the wood overhead,..brightens up that corner,..
10332-5.jpeg 

 

10435-6.jpeg 

 

 

Reply 1
railandsail

Strip Lighting

For anyone interested in this layout lighting subject, I would suggest they have a look at this other subject thread that deals with 'strip lighting' (sometimes referred to 'rope lighting'). I rejected these types when I made my choices, but if doing it anew I would have to consider these possibilities.
 

LED Strip lights for multi-deck layouts
https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/led-strip-lights-for-multideck-layouts-12216961

video example of strip lighting


 

 

 

Reply 0
Stefan

adjustable color temperature LED strips

Just to let you know that adjustable color temperature LED strips ('CCT' seems to be the keyword on superbrightleds.com) are available these days. I'm planning to hook mine up to two outputs of a bench top supply, which should give seamless color temperature control from 2700K to 6500K (within the limitations of LED phosphors; i.e. there will always be some peaks and valleys deviating from a true black body spectrum).

I like my switchable color temperature desk/work light a lot. Most of the time it is on the warmest/lowest temperature setting, but for fine detail and loupe work I often set it to a higher color temperature.

Also, I think it's important to note that even LEDs do not last forever, so one should plan for a replacement after a while. I have worn out one set of under-cabinet kitchen lighting after about seven years, which fits with a lifetime of ~10,000 - 20,000 hours (~four to eight hours use per day).

 
 
Reply 0
Reply