3rd Engine

That left the 3rd one of those engines that I believe I bought thru the mail (craigs list or something) a few years ago. It came all packaged up as a new one would be, so I'm now thinking I must have never removed it from it box and done a thorough inspection?...strange??. Why do I say this? I unpacked it today and noticed it was missing the one, rear most wheelset on the tender. I then decided to open up the tender and do an inspection on its interior. This is what I found.

It appears as though the previous owner installed some sound capability, and perhaps changed the motion decoder?? The motion decoder I am assuming is the Digitrax DH-163. Is this original equip from Bachmann?
The sound decoder appears to be the Digitrax SFX-0416?

My question at this point is can I run this engine on a DC track (not DCC) without problems, or burning something up? In other words is this a dual mode decoder setup??

And where might I get another single wheelset for the tender?

I asked Google

And according to the Ads I got the TSU-1000 is analog compatible. So you can run it on DC.

Bob

TSU-1000's have an option for

TSU-1000's have an option for either DCC only or auto sensing limited function on DC. So assuming that it's enabled, you can run it on DC. It is on by default, but for example, I normally turn this off (eg DCC only) but it is there. Most DCC decoders seem to have an analogous feature, although I don't have specific statistics to back up that "most" statement.

you can run it on DC. It is

 So I might have chosen to turn off the DC capability when I was assisted with installing the decoders into those 2 Northerns??  When I put both on the DC  track today, neither of then would run, nor make sound.

I had hoped to use 1 and/or both in my current experiments with Peco turnout guard rail slots,...(need long wheel based steam engines).

3rd Engine Solution?

I was taking a closer look at that 3rd Northern to see if I might find out whats wrong with it,... I got some sound, but no motion.

I pulled the components further apart for these next 2 photos,..
 

...and I marked the 4 wires that I have questions about.  It appears as though the sound decoder is hooked in with current pick-up wires from the tender's wheels,..those 2 with the shrink wrap on their ends.

There are 2 wires on the motion decoder that appear to not be connected to anything,...could they previously been connected to those shrink wrap ends? (that might connect the sound decoder with the tender wheel pick-ups ??)

@Brian

For your 3rd engine:

https://www.digitrax.com/products/retired/mobile-decoders/dh163p/

https://www.digitrax.com/products/sound-decoders/sfx0416/

Brian, this links above, they are containing all the informations you wanted. The ability to run on DC or not is a matter of CV29 value. There are indeed 2 independent running decoders.

Lutz

DC DCC

I did that about ten or so years ago. I made a Mantua 0-6-0 switcher in to a 2-6-0 with a DZ125 turned it around and put a Bachmann small Vanderbilt tender behind it. Put metal wheels on it with pickups. Wires to the loco as hoses.

Put a TSU Micro and small oval speaker in the tender with holes drilled in the bottom of the tender. Split shot for weight. One hundred ohm resistor for motor leads. Modified couple CV''s to prevent over heating resistor. Turned loco into an oil fired cab forward loco. Both decoders, same address.

Decoders will run on DC today with some sounds. The option has to be selected on DCC. Loco will not start moving until track voltage is about seven volts DC Decoder wakes up at about five volts DC.

Rich

Update

(must have happened when I originally shorted that engine on a Shinohara double crossover?)

Electrical Pick-ups

I'm back fooling around with these locos, and was hoping to get one at least operating on just pure DC. I was thinking of experimenting with the engine I previously 'burned' up the stock board in.

Concurrently I was looking to investigate the electrical pick-ups on these later model 4-8-4. It appears that there are metal contact strips (wipers) that rest against the backside of the driver wheels,....most all of them, AND on both sides of each driver/axle. These individual metal wipers are then connected to 2 feeder wires that exit the rear of main truck.

I assume these 2 feeder wires are then routed back to the decoder board in the tender, prior to connection back to the motor in the main shell? This might explain why the loco will NOT run without connection to its tender,...even though it appears to have 'all wheel pick-up' ??

I'm wondering if I can bypass that tender connection (particularly for the one loco I have with the 'blown board', and thus get the loco to run just by itself?? ( I have some Mehano mountain locos that do that extremely well,...just the loco, WITHOUT the tender)

History of the Bachmann 4-8-4

I just happened across this site that presents some history of these Bachmann engines,...
http://spookshow.net/loco/bach484.html

But I can't see a why to contact the fellow to ask more questions?? Seems as though he has done quite a bit experimenting with electrical pick-ups.

Reset the decoders

Programming track

cv 8 = 8 

Then it should run on dc and respond to address 3 on dcc on your main track.  

Both Digitrax decoders shown in the opening photo will get reset to the same address. 

If that doesn’t work, take the sound decoder out of the circuit and get the motion decoder working first.  Then hook the track leads from the sound decoder directly to your programming track with alligator clips and program an address just for that sound decoder.  Something you’ll never use, like 01.  Then try and consist the decoders on your mainline. 

I believe a factory reset overcomes a lock.  If it didn’t and you forgot an address, you’d be forever buggered, right?

This unit is numbered 3783, so you might want to set the address for the motion decoder to 37 and the sound decoder to 83, or some sort of convention that you follow.  Red shirted engineers for double decoders  double agents as it were  something easy to remember.  

Personally, I’ve yet to hear a Digitrax sound decoder that sounded remotely decent.  If cost isn't a factor  I’d be inclined to get yourself either a tsumani hard wired decoder or a decoder buddy and a 21 pin steam sound decoder, presuming these models run well in the first place.

. . .

What you have here is a dual decoder setup. Command stations will have a slight problem reading this setup unless you separate the two decoders. 

CV8 = 8 might reset both decoders to address 3 but then again it may not if the decoders were locked via CV15 and CV16 which is ONE approach.  There is also the CV29 long address versus short address than is a second approach.

Those wires you indicate should NOT be attached together. The green and purple are function outputs 1 and 2.  The other decoder is sound only and those wires are power pickup. If you attch the wires together you will blow the function outputs of the motion decoder.

Marc

It is on by default, DC conversion ?

This is not quite accurate. Soundtraxx changes things from time to time based on what the OEM wants. 

Soundtraxx native is DC power disabled by default (CV29 = 2). 

Soundtraxx for BACHMANN are  DC power conversion enabled (CV29=6)

Soundtraxx for Athearn are DC power conversion enabled (CV29=6)

Digitrax is DC conversion enable by default (CV29=6 default)

On Soundtraxx to enable DC you have to set bit 2 ON  of CV29  (CV29 = 6)

and also CV12 bit 0  ON (CV12 = 1)  which is the default state.

Brian, a few things.1

Brian, a few things.

1 Spookshow.net is a fairly famous N-scale site. SO that information is specific to the Nscale version.

spookshow used to hang around on trainboard.com (which is all scales, but had a strong N-scale contingent.) I haven't noted if he's been around recently. 

2 On your 3rd engine. I'm almost positive that's the older style bachmann engine, not the DCC ready version. That explains the odd setup.

. . .

https://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/dwg/dwgs/H508X-IS001.PDF

This would put it in the DCC Ready version, speaker perfs and all.

derp, you are correct.

derp, you are correct.

My Experiments with the one with burned-out board

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. I decide to just leave those other 2 engines 'rest in peace' until I could get around to more experience with decoder installations. I am thinking of doing one of them up really right,...perhaps with a WOW system, and then a real nice weathering job (something else I must learn). I believe these locos will look VERY nice with a good weathering job.

So I decided to experiment on the one loco with the burned-out stock board. First off I wanted to confirm the arrangement for electrical pick-ups. Here you can see the 2 strips running down either side of the METAL frame, then insulated from that frame by the black plastic strip underneath it. One of those arrows points to one of the eight vertical wiper strips that contacts each of the driver wheels,...in other words ALL WHEEL PICK-UP.

Those 2 collection strips down either side then go back and connect to 2 wires that go back to the circuit board in the tender (you don't get a good view of those wires connected to the underside of those 'buss strips' at the rear).

One point I was trying to verify was the 'ALL WHEEL PICK-UP',  including the gear driven axle !
This means that this loco could be set up to run without any tender at all,...by just connecting those 2 buss strips to the motor.

Next I went back to the tender where I had first thought of cutting all those wires leading to that stock burned out board. But on second thoughts why not leave the board in there for now, and bypass all of its circuitry. Interestingly (and credit to Bachmann) the board had its terminals labeled,...wow, even a dummy like me could figure this one out.

The ones labeled "M" must be motor,...those leads feed the motor. The two designated by my arrows are obliviously the tender wheel pick-ups L & R.   So the other two wires in the circle must be the 2 coming from those 'buss strips' in the main loco,....a little continuity test verified that.

So I decided to bring my motor control wires over to the buss wire terminals, thus a direct connection of the driver wheel pick-ups to the motor. As an aside I bridged those terminals via solder blob with the tender pick-ups. Now I really had an ALL WHEEL PICK-UP engine. It runs like a TOP!!
 

It has me wondering why don't many other manufacturers utilize this same sort of ALL WHEEL pick-up on their steam engines ???? (I have an Allegheny loco,...and probably a number of others,  that could benefit from such an arrangement).