why not run the origional

why not run the origional motor ?? is there something wrong with it ??

"Fun", as in not fun

That's a good question.  Does it run, and if so, how much current does it draw?  And how noisy is it?  Do you want to put sound in it?

You have what looks like a basic single ended Pittman motor or clone thereof.  Can motors that size aren't hard to come by.

It looks like the shaft bearing is soldered into its holder.  That's just the first fun task.  Then you have to pull the gear off the motor shaft.  Now you either have to find a new, quiet motor with that same shaft diameter or get or make an adapter, because I seriously doubt you are going to find another gear like that.

Now you've got to figure out where the decoder is going to go.  A high efficiency can motor will let you use a tiny decoder.  This motor might require a big honking decoder.  And if you want sound, and frankly, after dropping coin for a little jewel like a Heisler you probably want sound, you need space for a decent speaker that will make you believe it's a Heisler, which is to say it should sound like a jet taking off over a tank battle.  You might have space in the cab roof, because my guess is the boiler is full of lead and you don't want to sacrifice weight in a little geared engine.

Have fun!

Scott Chatfield

Swap motor or upgrade

First, if you ask to use DCC, the motor need to be isolated from the frame of the locomotive; from the pictures you share yours is probably  not.

This motor seems to be  like the ones in  many old brass models; it's  an open frame motor; they are a little "has been" motors compared by tomorrow quality motors.

But you can upgrade them quiet easily and make them run better and slower; here is link how to improve them very easily by just changing the magnet of the motors.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjgyfOZlpfpAhVQsKQKHRWIDuMQFjAAegQIAhAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fmodel-railroad-hobbyist.com%2Fnode%2F17774&usg=AOvVaw2fWRIJm5puoKUkdTfm5c6Z

A swap of the motor is also an option, there are numerous good motors on the market, Mabushi, Faulhaber, Canon, Mashima, defunct Sagami; if place is tight some N scale motors like Kato or Atlas are excellent motors too.

Most of these modern motors have isolated frame, but test them with a anmeter for dcc use.

A swap motor need often a new support motor and the need to have the original gear on the motor shaft or a similar one; NWSL back in business, offer numerous gear arrangement.

They also offer some specialized upgrade kit for some existing models in brass.

Some of these new motors also comes with gear box, which give torque but also slower turning shaft which can achieve excellent slow speed performances

Adding a flywheel if place permit it, can  also upgrade the performances of the locomotive

Sweet DCC locomotives need good electrical contact; it's important to check this or upgrade the wheels contact with the track.

Adding weigh after remotoring ang gearing is the only way to improve the running qualities of a locomotives.

The following formula can also help you to calculate a gear ratio if your locomotives run too fast

GEAR RATION  =  MOTOR SPEED AT 12v  :  PROTOTYPE MAX WHEEL RPM

You Tube offer some example of swap motors in different models of locomotives

A complete swap of the motor and the gearbox is an option too, but probably need great  modification.

Better is to keep the original gearbox and just swap the motor.

You just need to make a support for the new motor; this is the biggest modification in this case; piece of styrene can do the job.

My opinion; I have made many swap in N scale locomotive including gerbox.

Iit's just quick suggestion from just the picture you share, so check if it's possible or not.

It seems from the pictures you share, the motor shaft pass through a soldered bearing.

I don't know if the gearboxes is soldered to the frame of the locomotive, but first try to study a way without unsolder the bearing,  to take away the motor and the gearbox

Probably the gearbox  will comes away with the motor attached to it; take care about the coupling between the gearbox and the cast lateral piston of the Heisler system

You can go with the magnet option upgrade here; the simplest to go, this one could be satisfactory for your needs; just when you put the assembly back isolate the motor from the frame of the locomotives with a thin shim of plastic and probably plastic screws.

Picture don't help a lot for me, but seems the motor shaft is first maintained in the brass bearing and there is also a form of maintain just next of the gear at the end  of the shaft.

This could be a good news since the shaft is aligned and maintained in two places and the gear is between.

If this is the case and you ask to swap the motor, there are 2 options to my eyes.

First check original shaft diameter and the diameter of the future new motor; try to find the same if possible, this help a lot; the bigger motor you can put in the better is.

Find also a motor with two long shaft, you can cut them later to length with a dremel disk.

First take off the gear from the motor shaft ( NWSL has a tool for such job), if possible do it it without unsolder the brass bearing, seems to me is faisable .

If all go well put the gear back on the new motor shaft after placing it in the brass bearing; "...….. you just need to do a new support under the motor and align shaft and gear assembly onto the gearbox."""

If the original shaft is really maintained in place by the brass bearing and a second one after the gear, you can cut the existing motor shaft as far  you can outside the brass bearing just along the collector of the motor.

Open frame motor are easy to disassemble and you can take of pieces front of the collector to have a longer shaft to work with

This way you have change nothing from the original gearbox and gear assembly; you just need to couple the new motor shaft with this gearbox by connecting it to the rest of the shaft of the open frame motors.

This would be an "easy" way to go to my eyes, probably the way I would go if this was my model.

Do it with a new shaft coupling or a simple plastic tube coupling, NWSL has coupling shaft too,  to connect the motor shaft and the rest of the original one; there are numerous options to do it again, chech You Tube or forum thread about it; probably some shim will be needed to keep the gear on the good place in this case.

On the other side of the motor shaft you can put a flywheel, again NWSL is a good ressource for them.

Again just what I see from your pictures; this need for sure more study

Good luck

Here is a PFM Heisler

Here is a PFM Heisler re-motoring project: http://cwrailman.com/Loco%20Projects/PFM%20Heisler/PFM%20Heisler.htm

I think in a DCC locomotive with Back-EMF, adjustable accelleration and deccelleration rates a flywheel isn't worth the effort. A keep alive would be the better investment.
Regards, Volker

Taking a closer look...

A)  Is this a set screw?

If so then you can loosen it... and I believe if you remove the two screws at (B) on each side you’ll be able to separate the frame into two halves at (C) just sliding them apart. Don't lose that gear though, you'll need it later. It looks like the screw at the bottom of (C) holds the gearbox (or bearing block, or retaining clip, whatever that thing is just to the left of the rotor) in. There should be another in the same place on the other side, too.  Remove them both, and you might be able to slide the motor out. Once it's out you can figure out what path to follow.

@barr-ceo

What you show with the blue arrow next to the gear, is like a six pan allen  nuts, may by with chance, this is part of the gear; meaning this part is the gear itself; if you unscrew this nut, may be the whole gear would slide over the shaft.

This will be a very easy swap motor if a motor exist with the same diameter of the original open frame motor shaft.

Place it again on the new shaft and hop, a bracket for the new motor ant that's all !

Flywheel could be placed on the other end of the motor

  What you show with the blue

yes, we call it a set screw, and that’s exactly what I suggested. 

. . .

Effectively a set screw to the left on the gear.   Circled in green is , I believe, the screw holding the motor to the base. I can see very faint thread.

So replacing the magnet should be simple enough and permit re using the motor itself.  Other wise it is find a proper motor and shim it  to align the motor shaft with gear box, find a proper shaft size or additional sleeve,  glue can motor.

Marc

Maybe a dumb question ? Why

Maybe a dumb question ?

Why remove the motor? Looks to me you could replace the magnet without removing the motor ?

Can't you just remove or loosen the screw that holds the magnet in place then replace it?

Just a thought.

T.C.

. . .

motor isolation. There is a wire going to frame of motor and probably to a brush. That must be resolved for DCC operation.  Guess it is time to break out the ohm meter.

Marc

dead easy to put in a

dead easy to put in a decoder.  I have an original PFM Heisler and connected a very small (and very simple) TCS decoder.  Red wire goes to the screw between the brushes, black to the trailing truck (if that's what you call it on a geared locomotive).  Orange and grey go to the brushes.  Won't work on yours, I'm afraid, unless the brushes can be isolated.  Worth checking though.  If that is insulation I see on the brush spring, you're in business.

At least you have the replacement drive.  In the original the worm was on the motor, and the axles had helical gears.  That allowed for an amazing amount of slop in the mechanism.  PFM offered a replacement gearbox complete with cranks and pistons.  I got one but never installed it.  I think it would require worms and gears down at the axle level.

Ah, my first ever brass engine!  Fifty-odd years ago, that were...  And it turned out to be the spitting image of an engine run by my prototype Capilano Timber Company.

David

Thank you everyone!

Great comments and suggestions. I bought this engine from pictures. When it arrived it was a mess. Lots of broken solder joints including the cab to boiler. When I contacted the seller he was sorry and refunded my money minus shipping. Very kind on his part. I spent an afternoon repairing all of the broken solder joints, straightening bent bumpers and getting the visuals to look good. I removed the motor easily. The gear uses a set screw. I did not have to unsolder the bushing. So this is where I am at. I just thought it would be good to replace the motor with one comparable with DCC. Yes, I do plan to add sound. I feel I just need to decide what motor will be best. 

Again thank you all for your patience, time and great info!

. . .

Then it is a question of measuring your motor, it's shaft diam and finding a proper replacement from some source.  You are in luck as NWSL is back in business under new ownership.  They are your source for motor, step up sleeve (if required)  and all manner of goodies in this regard.

NWSL.COM

Marc

UPGRADE AND REPLCEMENT PARTS AVAILABLE

Replacement parts,motors, drive components and a mountain of information is available from Northwest Short Line http://www.NWSL.com. Also check out http://roundbell.com/hoconversions.html. Lots of information and upgrade kits for many brass engines including your model.

Good luck

Al Perry

PERRY & TIMBER CITY RR

Problem solved

Several years ago i remotored, regared and rebuilt some of these PFM Heislers. A part of the solution was to remove this third bearing on the motor shaft permanently.

Lutz