Yes!

I am sure this could be accomplished in some kind of format that it would be deemed "successful".

I envision something like the meeting Apps "Zoom" or "Skype" would be utilized where numerous people could log into and attend a clinic. Besides the Presenter, it would need a Moderator to control when people could "raise their hand" to ask a question, as well as keep the discussion focused so as to prevent people "taking over" the discussion.

I could see layout tours happening this way as well. They would have to be planned out in advance as to what will be shown, presented, focused on, etc. Could be a general overview of the layout, or some specific aspect of the layout, like the signal system, operations, staging, car cards, T&TO, etc. This would require a good (professional?) Videographer in addition to a Moderator. It would be neat for a Virtual Attendee to be able to "raise his/her hand" and stop the Layout Owner to ask a question about something being currently shown on the layout.

I would start small with something of high interest that would help build interest/enthusiasm for more. A prototype/test-bed of sorts. It also has to be led/organized by a well known figure-head or organization (NMRA?). I say this because it needs to be something that has draw. Something/someone that is broadly/widely recognized. Think Marketing/Branding....

Bring it on!

How about finding and supporting

one of the smaller RPMs as the test bed?

It doesn't have to be either-or

Virtual

I'm not seeing it.

There in lies the rub.  All that is going to take time, plus you have to figure set  up and pack up time, then travel time between layouts.  If you can video one, maybe two layouts a day, you would be doing good.

I think that would derail the presentation because it would wreck the whole "they would have to be planned out in advance" thing.  Plus live tours would be really difficult to orchestrate, setting up the camera, getting the lighting right, getting the angles right while narrating it while answering questions.  Way high degree of difficulty, then having to do it all on a schedule because people will have to know when to log in.

It would be waaaaaaaaay easier to film some layout tours and then maybe do an hour of layout tours or fit them in between the other festivities.  If you want show the tour, then have a Q&A session with the owner AFTER the tour.  Kind of a film festival approach.

Filming clinics would be much easier, probably only one or two camera positions, in a set location with a very constrained subject.

Plus one of the advantages of a "recorded" virtual convention vs. a "live" virtual convention is the recorded one is available on MY demand.  Plus it lets me choose what to see and if there are conflicting things going on at the same time (a layout tour and a clinic both scheduled for 200pm Saturday) I can watch them both if they are recorded.  If its live then I get to choose one.      

Virtual

Don’t we have “Virtual” already on Facebook and YouTube? I would love to see good well presented clinics on line but for every good presenter IMO on YouTube I must have gone through 10!

I will watch anything a Luke Towan will put out. I really like JerseyHighlandBruce who is actually Dr. Bruce DeYoung and is the Educational Director of the NMRA. Both always informative, well paced, good video and very concise. There are a few others of course but not a lot to want to pay for this. 

When I can watch Ken and What’s Neat this Month that’s as close as I want to get to virtual. Those are well made videos and again few and far between. I just see Virtual being what Lionel S and his podcast are, What Neat This Week is and again IMO gabfests and there is nothing wrong with that. Lionel can be a great laugh at times.

Can’t wait Joe to read what your ideas are on this. You are bright and creative and maybe you and your team can pull this off. I am willing to check it out. Costs I think will be high.
 

Tom

Virtual Clinic

I told Gordy Robinson that I’d be happy to do a virtual clinic if there was interest in the idea. Working on it either way but shooting for the April 25th deadline. 

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...

Zoom is a no-go for me...

Zoom has some security issues, and they're not limited to "Zoom-bombers" (Google it...) who are using  publicly available "sniffer" software to find otherwise private conferences and school sessions and dropping porn into them. I have a little more faith in Skype, though I'm not a fan of Microsoft, either. 

A better option might be Twitch, which by design is set up to stream gamers (live) and their screens to large numbers of simultaneous viewers.

Either or?

Cool but that wouldn't help us now at all, because the thing you described is a broadcast of a live event.  But if there is no live event there, is no broadcast.  

If there is no live event it takes a completely different infrastructure to support, for lack of a better term, a "distributed" convention.

Are we discussing how to record or broadcast a live convention or what to do when there is no live convention.  Two completely different animals.

Yes but it is not an either

Yes but it is not an either or situation.

If you are set up to broadcast a life event with remote participants (question and answer) vs just broadcasting.  Then you are 75% to being able to do it completely remote in cases that you need to.

This same technology would also be useful to have if for some reason you need or want a present or that can not attend the convention.  Or in the case of the convention in England it would be useful for people in the states.

Frankly a lot of things become possible as soon as you accept modern technology and loosen up a bit on insisting that the convention has to stay 100% the same as it has been for the last 30 years.  
In this hobby we constantly talk about wanting to get youth into it but then we have issues with changing the old people stuff.  Youth has little time or money or inclination to go gather in a group someplace far from home with a bunch of folks they don’t know and who are old enough to be their grandparents and pay a very large chunk of change for doing so.  But a lot of younger folks are very well used to doing things remotely.  So this may be a chance to encourage younger folks to participate.

-Doug M

Logistics

This boils down to what the purpose is.  Is it to share a live convention with people who are not attending in person or is it to create a virtual convention where there may or may not be a live convention?  Two very different problems with two different solutions.  Once the content is in a computer they overlap on distribution and delivery of content.  Getting the content into a computer is the challenge.

The logistics of a live convention and a virtual convention are very different.

If you have a live convention then the interviewer and the cameraman can interview Kadee, walk 20 ft interview Bowser, walk 20 ft and interview Marklin.  Cool.  One interviewer, one camera, easy logistics.  All the clinics will be held in 3 or 4 locations, at set times with set staging.  Easy to video.

If you DON'T have the live convention, then Kadee is in Oregon, Bowser is in Pennsylvania and Marklin is in Germany.  Then you need multiple interviewers, multiple cameraman, more complex logistics.  If you have clinics in  a dozen locations in different time zones with different staging.  Not as easy to video.

I'm not saying that that virtual convention or broadcast is bad or impossible.  The reality is they require different logistical and organizational approaches.  

Its more flexible to set up for the distributed, virtual show because that approach doesn't care about location.  Then if its a live convention you have 200 shooting video within 500 ft of each other, if you don't have a live convention then you have 200 people shooting video spread out across 3000 miles.  The logistics are the same either way, live convention or distributed. The organization required is the same live or distributed.  The coordination is the same live or distributed.

If you set up for a live convention, with a dedicated, centralized video unit and the convention is cancelled then you have to convert to the distributed format.  Different organization, different coordination.  Not only does the content and process have to be managed, the transition from one organization to the other has to be managed, adding to the degree of difficulty.

Logistics

Let's say there are 10 clinics with people in anywhere from 3 to 10 different places. Okay clinic #1 live 9 to 10:30AM, and it has the ability to ask questions as others have outlined. It is also in Denver and recorded. Clinic #2 is in Germany and is live from noon to 1:30PM and so on through a few days. Two or three clinics a day is probably enough. Only live clinics will have Q and A, but all clinics would be available as soon as they can be posted somewhere. Each will need the presenter, a couple/three video cameras and lights, a video mixer and recording deck, a capable person to handle the electronics, and a moderator. None of this could be done during stay-at-home orders, but if there were several years worth "in the can" they could be used in the unlikely case that we would ever go through this again.

Layout tours will be much more technically difficult as Dave outlined above. It is just much more difficult to get the feel of a layout on "film" than it is in person. These could be similar to TMTV segment. Here the speaking skill of the host and moderator are critical. I would expect that the production would take at least a day per layout and the final product (ie. these are not live events) would last an hour or so. Nothing beats being there! But second best beats nothing every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Celebration room? What ever happened to click-n-spin? Obviously this is recorded. People could look, leave comments, ask questions (to be answered later?), and even vote if that was desirable.

On the other hand, a virtual banquet? Speakers could be broadcast and recorded, but virtual food...........

Video production is NOT cheap and take lots of time. If it's going to be worth doing it's worth doing well, but that takes time and money. There's no sense in making a bunch of "junky" videos and calling it a convention. If that's what we want, it already exists – u-tube! These additions to a convention will likely have to come with a price tag.

Dick

Let's say there are 10

I disagree with the part about needing several cameras and all the associated gear. 

Most clinics are put together using PowerPoint or something similar. The presenter's face is irrelevant to the clinic. We need the voice, that's all. I believe a very presentable clinic can be provided using only the presenter's computer, a microphone for the presenter to speak into, and the right software to stream the clinic and handle the Q&A. In fact, I gave one at a couple of national and regional conventions a few years ago, and could easily do so again without needing to be in front of a camera.

In fact, based on the recorded clinics I've seen, we'd be better off without the cameras in almost all cases. Video recordings of projected images in the recorded clinics is of much lower quality than slides shown directly on the monitors, and even the video of presenters in darkened rooms leaves much to be desired. A simple photo of the presenter at the beginning of the clinic, plus their voice throughout, should provide adequate connection to the audience. Unless it's purely a matter of the presenter's ego, in which case I wouldn't know what to do.

You would need a moderator (for lack of a better term) to hand off the stream to the presenter at the beginning and to take it back at the completion of the clinic. 

As far as recording goes, the clinics chair could task someone with the right equipment to record each clinic for future release.

Not exactly

While I get your point, facial expressions do add a satisfying richness to the Powerpoint presentation and can help convey some points with less confusion. Most good presentation casting tools include the presenters face as well, so that's a default -- nothing special needed except a common inexpensive webcam.

So this is out-of-the-box functionality with no special "fancy" cameras nor extra staff needed.

virtual clinic

You need IMHO 3 people.

The presenter of course.  They need to dress as they would at a live convention.

A moderator would me more like an MC.  They would introduce the clinician and 'moderate' the question flow.  These could be open floor or at the end as the clinician desired.  If you'r doing a "convention" or "symposium" the MC/Moderator should be always the same person.

The third person is the technician.  They are running the software like Joe mentioned.  Blending the slides or video feed with the clinician etc.  This person is also capturing the final feed to save it for later.  Say a week after the event.

Of course you need an audience.  During the question the technician can blend in the face of the questioner of the moment.  At other times maybe a 'audience shot', but do not know if that is possible.

My 2¢

I haven't had a chance to

I haven't had a chance to read through this whole thread other than the OP's comments.

As someone who lives on an island state in australia that has very very few USA prototype modellers i would jump at the chance of a virtual conference wth prototype and modelling information being presented.

I look forward to seeing this idea progress
 

On the attendees side.

A virtual convention has a large potential for involving many more people in the event.  The cost of the event ticket is trivial.  The ancillary expenses of attending an actual convention/show are significant.  Consider the $3 bottle of water and the $100 or so per night hotel room, meals, rental car, parking and travel costs.  That’s not to say that talking with Joe et al isn’t worth it.  In person is the ultimate experience along with being able to go back to see whatever or whoever freedom.  This is indeed an interesting proposition.  Thanks for your thoughts.

Nick

I think a virtual version of

I think a virtual version of a real convention would be a path worth following. It seems like it could open up conventions for folks who cannot make the live event. I do not think it would compromise the live attendance count as the folks who typically make the investment in the trip are likely to continue.....obviously live is best, but a virtual attendance would be better than not seeing it at all. 

That's just my personal opinion, which is basically worthless, just wanted to toss out my thoughts

Powerpoint

Depends on what the subject is.  If the subject is an activity or a demonstration of a technique then a static slide show may not be adequate.  While you can have a large number of clinics that can be presented, limiting clinics to narrating a slide show will exclude some or make some less effective. And that risk might be way less than not having anything at all.

Virtual clinic

Once again, it depends on what you mean by "virtual".  If you are broadcasting a regular convention then it has to be recorded real time.  

If you are doing that there you would need a presenter and MC for each clinic venue (most conventions will have 2-4 clinics going at the same time) and one, maybe more, "technician".

If it was a year like this one, that plan would mean we would not have a real or virtual convention.

If you are doing a true virtual convention with no real meeting, then you could have one MC and one Technician because the clinics could be scheduled over a wider time span and there would be no need to duplicate clinics.  They could even be recorded over a period of weeks or months before the "convention".  Then they are shown at a scheduled time during the "conventions" and at the end the presenter could be available for Q&A period.  The archived versions wouldn't have the live Q&A.

Not that they are necessarily mutually exclusive, but they would require different software and a different organization, and would produce different product.

You could go with the broadcast of the live convention as the default.  Then if the live convention was canceled at least 3 months before the convention, you could transition over to the truly virtual convention.  The "MC" would notify the clinicians to submit their presentations in whatever format is required by a certain date, the technician would load them into the "convention" deck.  If the clinic presentation wasn't delivered with audio by the clinician, the MC and Techie would schedule a time for the clinician to "present" the clinic and record audio for it.  

They would create the clinic presentations in whatever format or method it was going to be presented to the attendees.  The clinics would be scheduled.  The clinics would be presented, the clinician would dial into the presentation and at the end, would answer questions.  That way if there was issues with connectivity between the clinician and the "convention" the only thing that would be lost is the Q&A and the actual clinic could go on as scheduled.

Conventions No Longer Have a Reason to Exist

Conventions and trade shows came about and became useful because it was the only way to get the information passed around.

It has always been expensive to travel, so you needed to give people a reason to spend that much time and money. You gathered a lot of vendors and other activities.  While you had them there you had a banquet and stuff for the spouses to do.

The reason you have 20 clinics on the same day is because you got all those people together in one place for a short time.  When you put them on-line, they don't need to happen at the same time.

The tech has existed (and has been in use by others) for a couple of decades that can do everything that's done at a convention. In most cases better.

The clinics on TMTV, Model Railroad plus and other places are much better than the hotel room gatherings where I can't see what the clinician is doing at his table.  The video tours of layouts are much better than packing a bus load of people into a typical basement. 

The RPMs and Ops Sig Events seem to a great job for for less cost for those that need the in-person interaction.

And for those people that fall back on the "it's the friendships."  My gosh, if your friendship is so strong, why are you meeting at a convention?  We have great ways to meet face-to-face  And if you want to meet in person - under normal circumstances - travel has never been so cheap. Go see them if you are such good friends, or create your own event, as do many families and friends for reunions.  Then you can concentrate on those friends without being distracted by the train show.

Sure - conventions are fun, and I'm sure some will still be around in a few years. But, for the most part, they have no reason to exist. They are a left-over habit from a time past.

gs 

It is nice...

...to have SEVERAL FRIENDS get together all at once and participate in activities TOGETHER, IN PERSON.  SO i'm sorry I strongly disagree with anyone that says Conventions have no further use.

Ken L.

Nope

Personal networking is a key value of conventions, and always will be. You meet people you didn’t know had valuable insight or tips, you see products you hadn’t heard about elsewhere due to information overload, and you find out about projects you didn’t know existed. Real conventions will come back, because people want to see things in person, not on a screen.

Real conventions vs virtual ones

I'm as pro-progress and as pro-tech as anybody, but I think the idea that new tech always makes old tech obsolete is simplistic and betrays a misunderstanding of how progress works.

What often happens if the old tech was very useful is the new “replacement” tech simply changes the dynamics of how the old tech is used, it doesn’t totally replace it.

Let me give you many examples.

- Television did not replace radio, it simply changed how radio is used.
- DVDs have not replaced big screen movies, they’ve simply made “going to a movie” into more of an event.
- Video phone calls have not replaced audio only phone calls, they’ve simply become a new option when you want more.
- Digital books/digital magazines haven't replaced paperback books/paper magazines, they're just a new publishing option.

In the same vein, virtual events will not replace face-to-face events. Virtual events will become a new option, either to augment live events with a virtual option, and/or become their own kind of event in addition to a live event. While traveling and meeting in groups is considered unhealthy or especially risky, then virtual events become a great plan B option to the live event.

But mark my words, the second a live event is no longer considered unhealthy, the live event will return with gusto. There’s just too much benefit from face-to-face interaction. And in fact, I hope one takeaway out of this pandemic is that people realize anew how special a live event really is.

Let me give you a personal observation.

I can do video conferences with a modeler, I can see them on YouTube videos galore, I can accept an article from them and conduct many back and forth emails and phone calls with them — but once I get to meet them in person and have a meal with them, only THEN do I truly feel I KNOW them.

After meeting someone in person such as at one of these hobby events, any later video calls, emails, and texts back and forth have a fresh new dynamic to them — the face-to-face meeting enhances all my follow-on interactions with them.

So face-to-face large event group meetings will NEVER disappear. They're just too valuable and enriching.