What kind of square footage

What kind of square footage we talking? Maybe I can help you come up with a viable design to fit the space.

N scale performance

N scale performance is pretty nice.  With really good decoders (zimo, loksound) you can get smooth creeping speeds.  To put my perspective into perspective, so to speak, I consider myself fairly picky about slow speed performance.  I switched to N scale from O scale where I had finely tuned switchers (Atlas SW-8, MP-15) with zimo decoders carefully set up that had amazing slow speed performance.  The N scale locos weren't quite as smooth, but they were darn close and plenty good enough.

Other things you should consider include reporting marks.  Is your eyesight good enough to read them easily at a normal viewing distance?  Is your dexterity good enough to easily use an uncoupling pick with derailing the small light cars?  And same two questions for any friends you may expect to be regular guest operators.

San Jose Branch

I wanted to build something off the SJ Branch in the 1960s. 

Looking for more of the urban industrial feel of SJ befor the tech boom.  Produce packing, light manufacturing etc. 

Im building moduels for now. 18" by 5' each. 

Im not as concerened with reporting marks, I am sure eyesite will eventually make even HO an issue 

I think my biggest concern is just the light weight of N scale locomotives with a lack of keep alive and a bunch of switces and diamons on a track plan

structures

Are you planning to scratch build the structures? have you tried building a structure in N scale?

the SJ Branch in the 1960s.

I did a lot of surveying over there in the early 70's. It was a neat area , food processors, winery warehouse, scrap iron dealer,etc.    I had an N scale layout for a while and found the engines run quite well. The size was a bit small for my taste when it came to making buildings, fences,and other intricate stuff so I'd prefer a less complicated HO layout in the same space as a more extensive N layout. If you haven't tried N scale before I'd suggest buying one good engine, a Kato or Atlas or similar and setting up a small test track and play with a bit of scenery and see if the size works for you better than it did for me. .....DaveB

My vote for HO

N is getting better and better, but HO still has the size for good details, extremely good decoders, and keep-alives. The performance of a back-EMF'ed loco with a keep-alive during switching is some of the smoothest performance you'll ever see out of a locomotive.

Lack of keep alives

There's no question that you need to be able to keep the track clean.  I didn't have trouble in the layout room I had my N scale layout in, but if your space is more prone to dirt, or you've had trouble keeping HO track clean, you might want to think about that.  See the recent MRH article on track cleaning for some good tips on what to use.

When I was a teenager (last time I had N scale) I had no trouble with N scale car numbers.  This time around, a couple three decades older and with progressive lenses, it was a bit of problem.  I ended up using tab on car to avoid the hassle.  One of the reasons I'm going with HO for my next layout.  But I do miss the ability to put a big industry in a small space!

N-scale switching

Don't overlook the importance of trackwork, in N-scale it is just as important as locomotives maybe more so.  I recently tore down a 600 sq ft N-scale layout (moving) that had over 600 cars , ran 22 trains per session and had mainline, industrial, mines, and classification switching. Most issues were self inflicted.

David P.

Uncoupling

Uncoupling N scale requires a very steady hand.  I run on several fine N scale layouts and everything is great until you knock a car off the track while trying to uncouple.  Bring out the Big Hook and the Bad Words.....

Oh, and in times like these, don't sneeze!  You can derail a whole yard!

N scale cars are just harder to put back on the track.  Now factor in your desire for an urban switching environment, with buildings close to the tracks, and it will be frustrating at times.

I am building an HO scale industrial park layout myself.  I could certainly build it closer to scale in N, but ease of uncoupling is one reason I'm sticking to HO.  

Scott Chatfield

N can be astonishingly good

I'm in HO, but two of the layouts I operate on regularly are N, and I'm blown away by how well they perform. I will mention that the owner of one of them is a retired surgeon - working with precision is his specialty and he is extremely talented. If that's your thing you can really get a lot of operations into a given space, but you have to have a knack for it and enjoy the feel of an Optivisor on your face. 

Scott's point about re-railing is important. You need to provide not-to-scale track spacing to be able to reach in with your enormous fingers, and anyplace you put an uncoupling pick on the fascia you should also hang a small flashlight to help reading car numbers. 

I enjoy operating on those layouts but I'm not sure I'd want to maintain them. But then, I'm used to HO so what do I know.

Jeff Allen

Couplers, rerailing

I didn’t have a problem uncoupling in N scale, the thing that bugged me about the N scale KDs (pardon me, MicroTrains - first time I was in N scale it was all KD) is the slinky action. The HO KDs the coupler can’t move in and out, just pivot.  The N scale MTs the coupler can move in and out as well as pivot.  That means pulling a small number of cars can set up a slinky like back and forth action especially at certain slower speeds.  A lot of cars there’s enough drag so it‘s less of a problem (except near the end of the train).  There are workarounds that involve slight modifications to each coupler.  There was also talk of a new coupler that wouldn’t have the problem, but I don’t know if that has come to pass yet.

Re-railing N scale didn’t seem hard to me - I use thumb and forefinger on each side of the truck, low enough so I also feel the rail so lining it up is easy.  Oddly enough I found O scale harder to re-rail - it’s too big to get your hand over, it needs two hands.

45 years witrh N scale

Yes 45 years in N scale, never has the feeling or the need to change this scale, just because it permit a lot and run like a charm by today standard

I completely agree with the use of ZIMO decoder for N scale, don't know why, but they perform extremely well in N scale, probably  better than the other brand.

More to the scale, more scenery or track on a same surface beside HO but don't use a 1/2 ratio to use a HO track plan in N scale, this does'nt work.

Uncoupling on my layout use self made uncouplers,  which work great and avoid for the most the use of giant hands or sky pick to uncouple.

Like in any scale, track need to be  layed  perfectly to avoid any gray hairs in the future; this is particularly true with a future switching layout.

Switching is great in N scale with great switch train with numerous cars; I suggest you if you switch in N scale to use Micro Trains couplers exclusively.

Slinky motion is often opposed against MT couplers, but with cars weighting the minimum of NMRA request or over, this effect is reduced; anyway I prefer to live with and with a Cadillac coupler.

It exist numerous device to keep back on track  any derailed car on track, extremely useful and quick process.

All the locomotives produced after 2005 are fine runner for the most.

All car cards for operation are better used if they includes a picture of the car; this is easier to recognize each car.

Yes I'm a N scale man with glasses with a number 3 dioptry just to say bad eyes are not an argument against N scale.

Hope to see you in the N scale world.

Marc

Operations

You can have a well operating N scale switching layout.  I have operated on several N scale layouts where I did switching and it operated on par with an HO layout.

Caveats due to the size of the equipment.  It is easy to knock something over while manually uncoupling.  It is harder to read reporting marks.  

HO does have some advantages in sound, more availability of equipment, engines, buildings, details.  

You can have fun either way, just have to choose whether the relative increase in size is more of an advantage than sound and availability.

"don't sneeze!  You can

When I first started to build my N scale layout I weathered a car with paint wash and chalk an took it outside to spray on some clear coat from a typical spray can I'd been using on my S scale cars. I set the N scale car on the patio table and gave it a shot and it rolled over about three times and landed on it's side :> )   I found I had to switch to a small Testors dull coat spray can or use my airbrush, but I got the cars built,weathered, and dull coated  .....DaveB   

+ and -

Seems to be many pluses and minuses to this choice. 

Sound could be the big factor, Likely most of the time Ill be operating alone and I feel sound will add a lot to the experience. 

On the other hand I do like the idea of have nice gaps in scenes and longer 12-15 car trains.

Sound in N, thoughts...

Dear WP,

"Sound in N", esp for single-operator/single-loco-consist-at-a-time layouts,
is prime for a "headphone sound" deployment a la Lance Mindheim.
https://lancemindheim.com/about-us/wireless-headphone-sound/

FWIW, IMHO switching in N is imminently do-able with the current crop of smooth can-motored, all-wheel-pickup, no-traction-tyres diesel locos, esp when running on graphite'd rails. The MT coupler "slinky effect" can be mitigated by following the MT instructions (whodathunk?) and installing one of the provided single "axle drag springs" on a single axle end per-car.
(or only on cabooses/shove-platforms/RCPs, if one is paranoid about the cumulative-drag and is operating in the appropriate era). 

Under such conditions, a single MT SW1500 or LL-era SW7/9/1200 can haul easily 2.x times driven-axles-worth of cars on flat ground, which is about right for both prototype loco performance, and for "model layout sized" switching.
(If you're switching with larger locos like Kato NW, GP, or SDs, there literally is no excuse for "equal to HO" switching performance).

While I personally prefer "hands on" uncoupling in HO and above, for N I would try to deploy hands-off magnetic uncoupling wherever possible. "Where to place magnets" is a subject well covered by one of the oldest "How To" documents ever produced by Kadee...

https://www.kadee.com/documents/delay.pdf
(Read, heed, and file for future reference)

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Even with DC...

My layout is set up to run with both DC and DCC, and I have had great switching with N Scale. My favorite two DC locos to switch with are my Micro Trains SW1500's and my Life Like (then Walthers, now Atlas) GP20. Almost all of my cars are MTL, adding a spring to a car or two can help with the slinky effect. 

The SW1500 is really geared low and has great throttle control. 

If you look at my layout, most of the structures on my layout are scratch built. 

I've been running N Scale for almost 30 years....

and DCC for about 25, and have found it emminently practical for witching and operations.

My first N scale DCC switchers were a pair of LifeLike SW1200, which I put Lenz decoders into. I got incredible results from them - crawling speeds of about 5 minutes per tie! With the body shwll off, I could watch the armature twitct a little at a time. The more modern switchers from Bachmann, Atlas, Kato and Tomix are remarkable, running very slowly and smoothly even over turnouts. The Llfelike locos would easily pull 10-15 cars on the flat. I could MU the two and pull 30 cars without even trying hard.

If you use proprtly placed uncoupling magnets, you can sacrifice a little unprototypical back-and-forth movement to gain completely hands-off uncoupling.  You can paint the magnets to look like a walkway if you prefer.

I'm not a fan of sound in N scale. I'm a musician mysef, and to me the complete lack of audible low frequencies in the response from a tiny speaker, small enough to fit in an N scale locomotive does more to break the illusion than the complete lack of sound does.

Switchers vs road units' pulling power

The Prof wrote:

(If you're switching with larger locos like Kato NW, GP, or SDs, there literally is no excuse for "equal to HO" switching performance).

Professor,

I'm not sure I get your point here.  In the real world a typical 1,000 horsepower switcher of the transition era, say an NW2 or S2, could drag _more_ cars than a 1,500 hp F7 or GP7.  That's because the switchers weighed more.  A typical NW2 weighed 246,000 pounds to a GP7 at 242,000 pounds or an F7 at 230,000 pounds.  It was above 10 mph that the extra 500 horsepower came into play, along with the ability to make electrical "transition" that really made Fs and Geeps "road units".  

However, these things don't scale down at all.  Many of our models have the same motors regardless of exterior appearance.  Weight is the overriding factor in pulling power given equal motors, and in most cases the drives with less axles have less internal drag.  In other words, our switchers often don't pull as well as their prototypes simply because we can't make them as heavy compared to models of physically larger prototypes that actually don't weigh as much.

The prototype industrial park I model was switched by an SW1200 in the '80s and '90s, my era.  It is now switched by Geeps.  No increase in pulling capacity.  One reason for the change is laws and/or labor agreements require toilets on engines that leave yard limits.  Except for a few MP15s, end cab switchers don't have toilets.

Scott Chatfield

Great Comments

Liking this conversation. 

Hearing, understanding...

Dear Barr,

Hearing, understanding, but thats why "headphone sound" as an option works...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Uncoupling in N scale

I use exclusively MT/Kaddee couplers since they exist, clones are…...just clone even if they have the color and…..

MT charts explain how to use permanent magnet for uncoupling the couplers.

Unfortunately, fixed magnet in the track, sometimes uncouple train when it's not asked, so following is the link to a design I use, this one use HO Kaddee permanent magnet uncoupler; one is suitable to build two N scale uncoupler following this design

This uncoupler was designed for HO scale use primarily, but can be used in any scale.

https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/new-age-for-permanent-magnet-to-uncouple-kadee-and-clone-couplers-12211276

Uncoupling N

A thin bamboo skewer works well for MT in N scale, if you’re steady and you get a little slack before dropping it between the knuckles and twisting.  The cars need to be close enough and well lit enough so you can see the coupler well.  You can rest your forearm on the front edge of the fascia to help steady your hand as you go for the coupler.  It’s not hard once you get the hang of it.  A round toothpick also works well, but I like the longer handle of the skewer.

Some people are just better at uncoupling than others, and not necessarily due to dexterity or steadiness.  I know someone who can hand solder surface mount components who at times has a bit of trouble uncoupling cars in HO scale, for example.  I don’t know what makes the difference.  My advice would be to get a few N scale cars and a little track, put MT couplers on them (which are vastly better than what comes on most N scale cars), and try it.  If you find it’s easy, that’s one less thing to fret about.  If you find you can’t get the hang of it, well it would be better to know that upfront than after you build a layout and buy a bunch of equipment.

uncoupling N scale

  When I had my N layout I tried skewers but found it easier to just lift the end of one car till it cleared the coupler then slide it apart a bit and set it back down. The Skewers sometime hung up and knocked the wheels off the rails which meant I had to lift up the car to rerail it anyway so I just eliminated the intermediate step. Of course when I first started modeling in the 1950's in HO scale I used dummy couplers and uncoupled the same way...DaveB