My $.02 worth

I am no layout planning guru but I feel your pain. I finally went prototype with Seaboard System early-mid 80's where I grew up. As far as your dilemma the only thing I know to offer is this podcast I listened to yesterday. Maybe you can get some info to help you nail down a plan. They talk about operations and sounds similar to what your trying to do. I found it interesting.  Dave is in New Jersey.

Here is his blog.  A little hard to navigate but worth it. Scroll down a bit and the menu is on the right side.

https://onondagacutoff.blogspot.com/2009/

Start simple

If this is your first layout, going whole hog with a double deck full room plan is likely to end up with you stalled not knowing where to start.

Perhaps if you pick a single small town with a couple industries and a passing siding and build that following the TOMA approach.  Then you can complete a loop with quicky temporary benchwork and flextrack.  You’d get continuous running around the loop, and some switching.  And more importantly, you’d get a good feel for building and operating something.  After that ideas for your larger longer term plan may start coming together more easily.

Quit letting others decide for you

Just remember there's no wrong way to build a model railroad and don't let other people tell you what you want. Follow your heart. If it says freelance, fine, if it says prototype, fine.Quit worrying over terms like "believable" and "plausible". Do what you feel. For years I tried to reconcile my vision of a model railroad with what all the pundits were telling me and I started and failed at many layouts. It hasn't been till I actually trusted myself and my own vision that I've come close to actually finishing one and truly been happy with it. I do agree with Ken that you should keep it simple at first but other than that, just sit down, close your eyes, filter out all the noise of the pundits and ask yourself..."What is it that "I" truly want?

What Ken said

I just re-read the original post and realize I was off in the deep end. Sorry. 

Lots of good advice here.

Just Get some Track Down

Run some trains. You are trying to imagine all of this stuff that took most people YEARS to learn. Almost everybody started with something simple, learned from it and moved on. I model the SP in California in the 50's. I never saw it then. I've been out there a couple of times long since then but books and videos give you some of the sense of where and what you want to model.remotely.

But, the bottom line is get something started, some basic trackplan, some simple scenery, basic operation. You will find that your "givens and druthers" are likely to change over time as well.

HAVE FUN !!!

Espee over Donner

Filters....

You do have to do some filtering of elements that can appear on a layout. When I started my layout, I knew I wanted to model northern California, but was torn between the Sierra Nevada and the coast.  If the Sierra Nevada, I'd feature lots of mining and logging activity - including detailed logging camps. The coast would be redwood logging and interchange with coastal freighters. In the end the coast won because I really want to model the ocean.

Now, logging operations are indicated on my railroad by a switchback and interchange with a logging railroad whose operations are not modeled. I will have a port to interchange freight with sea going vessels. No mines. Even though my trackage is sparse compared to other railroads of a similar size, I find that I have trouble fitting structures and scenery (especially elevation changes) in the spaces I allotted myself. I will argue with my friend Michael above that plausibility is important to me. This includes not having to do a lot of shear rock faces to make up vertical differences between parallel track elevations.

My advice would be to pick a couple of industries to focus on. Even though you're modeling modern, if you freelance you can still include a team track at each town and switch in a variety of loads. You'd be surprised how challenging and how much time it can take just to switch a local freight between two or three destinations.

There was a GREAT article about "you"....

by Lance Mindheim.  I'll see if I can find it

Found it!

VERY sound advice for someone in your situation.  Well worth your time

https://www.shelflayouts.com/post/large-space-small-skills

and another to also help

https://www.shelflayouts.com/post/large-starter-layouts

I feel your pain....

Rodney - Your soliloquy very much describes what I went through.....

I am very fortunate (blessed actually) to live in the greater Cincinnati area which has an abundance of accomplished model railroaders (railroad modelers?). All of which are very supportive and willing to share their talents when asked. With that said though, I can't tell you how many times over the last two decades I've been asked, "so when are you going to start your layout?".

Well that time has finally come (I recently retired) and have started on my SP Lordsburg Sub, set in the 1980-ish time frame.

I worked on my track-plan for years - literally.... I went through the same machinations as yourself. Long-story short, I wanted to model from Tucson to El Paso and DESPERATELY tried to fit all of that into a double-deck plan in a 20' x 20' sized room. I've been inspired by Gerry Alber's Virginian Deepwater District layout because he has a large amount of hidden staging to simulate branches and interchanges, and this stretch of the SP had numerous interchange points that would have afforded similar "hidden staging". Gerry likens "hidden staging" to a play where various actors come on and off stage throughout the play. Same with trains coming from and/or going off to various other non-modeled points (hidden staging).

Finally got honest with myself and had to abandon that fantasy and shorten it. Now it's Tucson to Bowie. This still gives me a couple of inter-changes. Like you though, my area is sparse on industries which is problematic because I'm planning for my layout to eventually host operations. So, what did I do you ask? I'm going to create plausible industries where needed to "enhance" operations. A moniker I'm freely steeling from Randy Seiler and his Cincinnati West layout.

In the end I have a track-plan that is faithful to the SP in that area but will have free-lanced industries included/added so as to help make sure eventual operations are interesting and fun. You can find my track-plan here:

https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/sp-lordsburg-sub-as-of-170226-12206184

No reason you can't adopt this same concept with the area that calls to you - "Spokane and points east".

If you'd like, I'd being willing to share my "Givens & Druthers" document with you, Send me a PM if interested.

Get something reasonable down on paper and stick a fork in it....

I'll be watching. Good luck!

Present day is easier to research...

...but more challenging to model plausibly.  Just because everything is bigger.  Bigger engines, longer cars, longer trains with DPUs.

If memory serves, there's a railcam in Sandpoint, Idaho, the eastern end of the Funnel.  Just watching that will give you an idea of what's running through there.  As you already know, they run stacks, racks, grain, oil or ethanol (maybe both), a few manifests, occasionally coal, and the MRL comes through too.  There used to be a branch line to Couer D'Alene, but I gather that's mostly gone now.

Like most of the busy western mainlines, there's lots of scenery and not many on-line switching opportunities.  There's a lumber mill or two in Sandpoint, perhaps still one in Columbia Falls, Montana, a gravel pit in Essex, Montana, and after that not much other than grain elevators until Minot, North Dakota, where you get into the oil field.  Across Montana you're going through counties where the phone "book" is one page and dogs explode while looking for something vertical to pee on.

On top of that, the former GN "High Line" is double track, which reduces opportunity for trains to interact on a layout.  A layout of such using a single large staging yard is not just a big oval, it's a big double track oval.  So if almost all your modeled trains are through trains like on the High Line, your operators aren't going to have a whole lot to do other than "start", "run", "stop", and "don't run into the train ahead of you." Just like on the real High Line.

The former NP east of Sandpoint is mostly single track, and there are a couple large industries at Thompson Falls, Montana.  (Or maybe were.  It's been 25 years since I've been there.)  MRL uses BNSF power on some trains, but of course it's not as busy as the High Line.  Single track with bidirectional running means trains and the dispatcher have to interact with one another, which makes the runs longer and to most of us operators, more interesting.

If you don't expect to have a lot of operators and want switching, I'd look at just modeling Sandpoint or Thompson Falls.  Use the space you have to model the industries closer to life size.

A little more than 2 cents worth...

Scott Chatfield

  "I am desperate to find a

If you don't already have a prototype place you'd like to model you might as well just create one of your own. I'd make a list of what I'd most want to have in my train room then design something that includes as many of the desired features as possible  without over building the room. Searching for photos of the BN should turn up plenty of typical PNW scenes that you can incorporate into the design, interpret the ones you like best into you layout plan and get building, once you get started the design won't seem to be the roadblock, you'll be too focused on the creation that the design will seem to be a minor pothole in the rear view mirror.....DaveB

To clarify

I'm not saying to throw out "plausibility" completely. There was and is a stage where it comes into play for me. I'm just saying there was a point for me when I had to throw that and the rest of the "noise" out and just think about what I really wanted my pike to be. After reconciling my dreams with what was practical, a lot of plausibility factors just sort of fell into place on their own. Identification of certain "must have" features helped to narrow down time frame and the location to a general area. There really is something to be said for the "givens and druthers" exercise. In the end my little line is entirely fictitious but it feels real to me.

Details

Most of that type of stuff can be found by getting involved with forums, historical societies, Facebook pages, io groups, etc. dealing with the railroad or geographical area in which you are interested.  I belong to a half dozen Facebook pages of historical groups in the areas I am modeling.

However, the dirty little secret is that to a large extent, it doesn't matter.

You only have 300 sq ft.  You only have room to include just a tiny flavor of what the prototype actually had in the area in which you are interested.  Whatever the prototype had, you are going to have to condense and simplify it in any case.

Therefore, don't sweat the details.  All you need to do is capture the flavor.  Something that conveys the concept.

I am in the process of doing the detail design the 2nd half of my layout.  I have enough info on stuff to fill a basketball court sized layout.  But I only have a 12x24 space.  That means I will condense 20-25 stations into 5, I will have one yard and a passing siding instead of a yard and 3 passing sidings.  I had hoped to have 4 switching areas, instead I will have 2 (with a couple spurs on line). In order to get a few critical things I am going to have to give up many other things.

Also realize that railroad operations in many cases are subject to a lot of variations.  I worked for a railroad for 37 years.  I could describe the operation on one area at a particular time and then the next week, that operation could be completely different.  While I was locomotive director, we did major renumbering on the locomotive fleet two or three times.

Bottom line, I am all in favor of doing prototype research to understand how the railroad operated.  I also realize that that information is only a basis, a starting point to create a different operation that works on your layout.  You have to figure out an operation that works on YOUR LAYOUT that captures the flavor of the prototype.

@Michael T.

Agreed. I guess I went through some of the same indecision for a while. You and I have discussed having grown up with John Allen as a hero. Well, like it or not, John Allen and his style are not universally popular anymore. And yet the railroad in my head looked a lot like the G&D. I was trying to reconcile what people 'expected' a layout to be now with what I wanted it to be. Eventually I just decided to heck with it and I'm going to build what I want. It's no GD - maybe a little more down to earth - but it is a freelance railroad.

I only recently (6 months) started participating in forums and online discussions about railroad modeling so most of my ideas about what the hobby had become were coming from publications. Of course the overwhelming predominance in all the publications now is prototype railroading. I'm not ashamed to admit that it doesn't hold interest for me. I like researching and creating realistic scenes, but don't want to be limited to exact prototypical practice. I guess it's just the kid in me but I'm happy I went the way I did.  As you said, entirely fictitious but feels real.

Great Thanks!!

This was the first time I ever posted anything anywhere and I wanted to thank everyone for responding to my post.  I have read all of your comments and tooled around your blogs and websites.  I was impressed with the talent I saw.  The truth is you can't have it all in 300 square feet modeling modern equipment with mile long trains; it isn't going to happen, I "just need a flavor."  While I am the kind of guy who doesn't like to do things multiple times in reality I already have with unsatisfying results.  I will have to learn to be patient with the learning curve, learn as I go, make some compromises and ask for help when I need it.  I started building my staging yard yesterday and I am going to get some track down so I can see trains moving soon.  Over the years I have gotten good at shopping, I have a lot of stuff I can't wait to see again.  Your comments have brought me down to earth and inspired me to get  going and for that I am grateful.  I look forward to posting again, what a great resource!

Rodney

Freelance worked for me

[Edit: Well it seems I'm a day late and a dollar short as usual...  ]

Rodney, there's some great advice in this thread!

I had a similar dilemma to yours and had analysis paralysis for many years. What follows is how I broke free and got stuck in, in the hope it may help you a bit.

I like early Diesels to watch, listen to and operate, but I enjoy modern switching more than earlier eras. I get to watch some modern shortline action by GEXR and OSR close to where I live which helps. 

On OSR today you can see 2 F Units pulling 70 multis and a GP9/RS18 consist switching modern hoppers, tanks cars, box cars, bulkhead flats etc.

So my "compromise solution" was to create my own shortline, the GHR, with a roster simialr to OSR, and have it serve modern customers simialr to what I see around me. I made a fake history of it to justfiy its existence in southern Ontario. 

To be honest, I delayed for ages partly because I was worried that the kind of experienced operating crews I would like to invite wouldn't find a fictitious railroad plausible enough to be fun for them. But that turned out to be a bad assumption. I now have regular crews of excellent operators who seem to enjoy it because they do come back for more.   

The GHR operating theme is also based on how the local shorltines work. It receives loads and empties from interchanges with GEXR and OSR. It has a small yard where shorter local trains are made up to switch cars from the interchanges with local industries in 3 industrial areas. At the end of a day, the cars pulled from the industries are brought back to the yard where they are classified into trains that go back to the GEXR and OSR interchanges.  Rinse and repeat for the next session.

To try and make up for my totally fictitious railroad concept, I attempt to replicate the rules, communications and working practices of the real thing as closely as practical.

We operate with 2-man crews and try to use the same language to communicate that you'd hear on your scanner when railfanning around here today. We try to operate by the same rules as the real thing where practical.

Every car move is determined by customer supply and demand. As well I've tried to  make a few large industries with multiple spots (some with designated loads/car types) rather than more smaller ones.

Perhaps you could do something similar but use the real BNSF that you like, but make the locations fictitious. You could use real industries too, just in different towns.

I wish you great success with whichever direction you choose. But above all, as others have said, just dive right in and try something, however small, right now!      

Pete   

Good !

Everything else in life is so d---- serious these days you need something you can enjoy and relax without beating up on yourself.

Glad to see you starting. You will figure it out as you go. Sounds like you have already made some positive decisions.

Espee over Donner

dieselpower...

You are entering a hobby that is so vast that I can sense the trepidation on your part. But, like the little worm that was asked how he intended to cross that huge field, his response was: "Inch by inch it's a cinch!".

You might consider one of the cornerstones in the development of realistic looking freelanced model railroads that operate in such a manner that it reflects the prototype: Allen McClelland and his "Virginian & Ohio" model railroad.

If you don't mind spending a bit of money, there is a book that is a compilation of his multi-part series that ran in Railroad Model Craftsman that took us newbies (at the time) by the hand and introduced to us the concepts he used to create his very believable and fascinating railroad (for its era), the V&O. Very down to earth and great reading, Allen takes you through the thought processes in creating his theme and its execution, even explaining how he manages car movements (operation). VERY good reading. His concepts forever changed the way I do model railroading.

If you're interested in "The V&O Story", here's a direct link to an eBay search for "The V&O Story":

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=The+V%26O+Story&_sacat=180250

Whatever you decide... best of luck and enjoy the journey!

Andre

Freelance is a mirror of any prototype

I think some simple tracks with some switching possibility are enough to start; a Lance Middenheim design seems very appropriate,  may be with a small return loop or a wye to make complete runaround  back and forth

Freelance is somewhere inspired by the real thing and since it's freelance you can apply any real railroad rules to operate it.

Freelance also give you the opportunity to build the track as you ask for and you are not closed in a prototype

You can also invent and use your own schedule and way of operation again, the real thing can be an inspiration.

You can also put the layout in any area you ask from, in t he south, middle east or in the north, no matter.

But building a prototype layout is also an option, but you need to follow a bit this prototype to build somewhere a convincing layout.

Operations need to be also a mirror of this prototype

Anyway for a starting layout the simplest is the best and in any case it will be an excellent learning curve for the second one in the future.

You don't need to have gray hairs because you spend night to draw a plausible track plan; numerous books or design can be found here on the site; Kalmbach offer many books about track planning but also track plan, Atlas offer also some plan you can build using the geometry of their track.

It exist also some plan groups for model railroad and they offer versatile track plan for small or big empire layout.

You don't need to follow exactly the plan but you can adapt it for your needs or your feelings, you can also pick up a part of a plan and put it in an another one; it's completely open

Givens and druthers sounds boring at first,

Until you realize how much time, money and energy you wasted buying everything. Those links to http://www.shelflayouts.com are both easy ways to start your layout. Limiting the complexity of your first layout is a good idea to help you get up and running.  Once you run trains you may realize that track plan provides satisfaction or you can modify the layout later. You probably will make changes eventually.

Getting started without understanding what RRs do.

We all have to face this dilemma. We want to get into this hobby; but, do not know much about railroads; or, railroading! I had both HO and American Flyer S-scale when I was a kid. Most kids just want to see trains run and don't really think about scale like operations. Many adults are this way, also. So, when I started my layout 31 years ago, I knew I wanted to design in some realistic operations; but, knew little about how to operate. This is the largest problem we all face when starting out and we all end up putting the kart afore the horse, in this matter! We are expecting that we can design a layout that will keep us happy, even though we lack experience! So, I am paying for my lack of knowledge back then, now! My layout does not have enough online businesses to take care of, although there are far more now, than when I started. Back 31 years ago, I began the process of designing my layout by reading John Armstrong's book: "Track Planing for Realistic Operation". This book is still available from Kalmbach:  https://kalmbachhobbystore.com/product/book/12148 I managed to build a great yard for my model railroad using the information in John's book; so, I highly recommend this book! The facts I have just presented, might be why it makes some sense to build layouts previously designed by and recommended by people who have been in the design side of the hobby for years. If you can afford, you could ask for someone to design your layout for you.

Now, given the fact that I have been in the hobby for more than 30 years, I do think I could do a better job of designing my own layout. The fact is however, at 70 years old the idea of starting over is not very appealing! Know that the process of designing a model railroad is a complicated affair and taking time to do so makes a bunch of sense! Starting small is a good idea, also. With a small layout, you can possibly incorporate the small layout into your eventual big one, not unlike what the famous John Allen did with his Gorre and Daphetid original layout.

Mark

Just a piece of advise from Nike

Just a piece of advise from Nike shoes.  Just do it.

Try desperately to avoid the analysis paralysis.  You can always build a better layout later, but the practice and enjoyment you get out of building a less than perfect layout will be rewarding, educational and fun!

Operations, in general, no

Operations, in general, no matter what railroad you work for, are simple. Move freight from point A to point B in the most economical way possible with the fewest “handlings” on the way. I do have a simple drawing to show a bit more in depth of what I mean, but the image attachment tool is giving me issues currently. In general, pick a friendly prototype railroader’s brain. Most times they know way more than they look like they would. Some of them are also model railroaders, railroad historians, and secretly rail buffs as well. Just gotta know who to talk to.