I was under the impression

I was under the impression Matchbox cars are 1:64 scale, which is significantly larger than 1/87 or HO scale.  A quick check on the internet seemed to confirm they are not HO scale, if that matters.  YMMV.

No

Matchbox cars are each "scaled" individually, as Brad's friend Damon pointed out, to fit the "matchbox".  That's why a bus is the same length as a Rolls Royce.

There have been a few (very few) over the years that scale out to 1/87 or very close.

Vehicles are my favorite part of the HO scale world, and I probably have over 500 scale (not Matchbox, not Hot Wheels, etc) vehicles.  Part of the fun (for me) is finding new (or former) sources of 1/87 vehicles and I've discovered quite a few relatively unknown manufacturers of such.  One resource to check out is 1-87vehicles.org which is the web address for the 1/87 Vehicle Club.  Lots of information there.

Al Carter, Mount Vernon, WA

1:87 scale to 1:64 scale

@jim Fitch

Correct. But they are not always built to that scale hence my chat with our shop employee. It could take another discussion..but i'll take the small difference in scale to spend 10% of the money I would on a 'proper' scale model. Like I said, it's about careful selection of detail, accuracy and the scale size. 

And remember, I do have the River Point and Diecast Masters models to hold them against to! My Film prof said "never use your best shot". But these models hold up, for me.  

1-87vehicles.org

@al carter

Thanks for this! 

Good to have resources should one need to find more HO

 Things like out-of-scale vehicles bothers me so I prefer to stick with 1/87 vehicles. 

Another reason, besides appearance, is over size vehicles would not fit open auto racks and I've been working on filling a number of autoracks.

As for finding vehicles that are close to 1/87 as reportedly some Matchbox etc. are, that would take some research.  So far I've been able to find a reasonable number of vehicles that are already manufactured in HO scales but maybe, now knowing, that there may be more options ...

Matchbox cars

are to large for 1/87 scale, but their trucks do scale close, the older GMC cab over is close to Athearn’s ford cab over. Same with the old dodge truck, the Chevy snowplow, the ford cab, and some others. You have to look at them, you find older ones at train shows and flea markets.

Scale

Yep..Like I was saying..you have to hunt for them and voila I found accurate ones here at our 'Dollarama'. It's like the music saying for vinyl 'Dig Through The Crates".  

Consider Oxford Diecast Also in Diecast Vehicles

Oxford Diecast 1/87 are reasonably good buys but are largely limited to a splashy/exotic type automobiles. At least they make some 1930-50's vehicles usable for transition era HO. But they make a huge selection of British 1:76 4 mm scale vehicles which if you buy directly from internet discount retailers in the UK are reasonably priced.  Judiciously used these OO scale industrial vehicles can also be used for HO particularly as many European industrial designs are smaller in prototype than North American. 

Oxford Diecast products are made in SE China whereas Matchbox and Hot Wheels may come from Maylasia, Viet Nam or other SE asian countries. With Taff Davies who started Oxford now CEO of Hornby which owns Corgi and Airfix who knows what will happen.

Another good source for

Another good source for models is the Maisto Adventure Force Long Haulers tractor trailers at Wal-Mart. While not perfect and some are kind of toyish looking and sport tacky paint and graphics, they have some fairly decent ones that are reasonable stand ins with a little repainting and decaling. Some are exactly if not pretty close to HO scale and you can't really complain for 4 bucks. They're also sold under the name "highway haulers" in other stores. Their cars and pick ups though are usually closer to 1:64 so you'll have to do your homework on those ones.

Maisto

@DirtyD79

Yes I have Maisto vehicles too. And you're right, not kid like toys, bad paint jobs or too wrong for scale. Thanks for pointing out to the Long Haulers at Walmart! And at @ Mike horton.. you're right the selection process. 

Here's a Walthers dump truck parked ahead of a 'Dollar Store' construction vehicle. In front is the Snow plow i recently purchased. Now look at the scale difference. Not too bad for the price point! 

@  smadanek thank you for your direction too!  

I replied here earlier this

I replied here earlier this AM, with a picture.  It's gone, never mind!

Mike.

Case in point

My Herpa model of a dump truck that i've never seen a prototype model comes in at $21.95 usd.   

It's a shit piece of plastc, you breathe on it and it falls apart. $21.95!!! The bucket fell off immediately and its questionable how it fit on in the first place! How come Matchbox, Hot wheels (nothing near protypical there) and the like that you can purchase for under $2.00 at a Dollar store or Walmart, mind you the right size for close to 1:87 scale as mentioned before, are made of Die Cast metal?! 

Also, i've yet to see the prototype for this dump truck. I'm looking for dump trucks with a higher bucket and the third back wheel that is only lowered when needed. 

I was naive in this purchase and will never buy a Herpa model again. What a rip off.

End of rant.

Fixing Herpa

Dear OSCR,

I would have thought that a "high side dump body"
(I'd guess you're thinking of a dump truck more like what we non-US-based modellers think of as the NYC dumpers as seen in "Die Hard 3"?

 

??)

would be a reasonably easy styrene scratchbuild, or 3D print modelling mission?

As for "lift up tag axles",
(which IIUC is more-common for _contemporary_ late 1990s - 2010s dumpers?)

surely that's just a case of:
- extending the chassis as required
- elongating the relevant axle slot,
- and gluing the axle up higher?
(Spare/extra axles and wheels are available,
check in with the team over at 1-87vehicles.org , or direct with Herpa
https://www.herpa.online/spare-parts-for-scale-187/296--herpa-spares-050357-truck-bus-wheel-caps-chromium-plated-4013150050357.html)

...oh, and a quick Google did bring up some simiar prototype "low-wall dump body" Kenworth 1980's-era W900-based rigid 6x4 trucks...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

PS Remember that Herpa is a Euro-based brand, so don't be too hard on them if the bits behind the cab-chassis have a slightly "euro flavour" out of box...

PPS if you want to cast off your as-is-in-box Herpa/Promotex truck models,
rest assured there's plenty of modellers who'll take them off your hands,
look at them as useful "scale model kitbash fodder",
and make them into exactly the models their particular prototype calls-for...

Large dump body 3-axle trucks by Herpa

Dear OSCR,

Um, just stumbled on this, by Herpa, via the Walthers site,
maybe more like you were thinking of?
(more modern "ant-eater" T800 Kenworth,
we'll consider the trailer as "bonus kitbash fodder"...)

Again, I think removing the "euro-esque" curved mudguards over the drive axles, 
elongating the axle slot(s), and gluing the "tag axle" in a higher position would be an easy,
say, 10 minute(?) modelling job...

(arguably quicker, if the model just "falls apart" as described.... Careful disassembly of models before the actual hack-n-bash work begins is often the slowest part of the project, except of-course for paint/weathing drying-time-lag.... :-(    ) 

...and a dose of weathering could do wonders, which again is not a greatly difficult or onerous task...
(even on a "better" truck model, you'd still have to do the painting/weathering anyway...)

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

...

You mean not too bad against the Road grader?

The truck cabs are horrendously off. The rear truck might be a F250/350/450/550, the truck in the front is an International 2-5 ton truck.

Most dump trucks...

In my experience, most dump trucks use a 2x6 or 2x8 board along the top rail of the metal dump box to increase the height of the dump box. You can see an example of this on the "T-95" photo posted by Prof. Klyzr. 

So most of the dump truck models look odd to me because they rarely include the wood top board.

The high-side units that are all steel up to the top are used around here for less dense materials, like bark dust. 

Matchbox Vehicles Approximately HO Scale

My biggest issue with Matchbox are the wheels, but if you want to take the time to replace them, there are some vehicles that, for use in the background, are pretty close.  In doing some searching on the web I found the following list of of Matchbox cars that are either 1/87th scale or close: http://www.87thscale.info/matchbox_ii.htm

Lou in California 

Add the hungry board

Dear Jeff,

...and if a single hungry-board is the difference between "useless, never seen one before" and "passes muster in-context, on-layout",

I'd suggest cutting two lengths of appropriately sized stripwood (one per side, natch),

dunking them in "Oil Wash" stain,

and gluing them in position is something like a < 5min fix?

(where 4 1/2mins of that is "drying time" after staining...)

Happy Modelling,

Aiming to see "how to get there from here",

Prof Klyzlr

Yup.

It's a simple fix, and it was annoying when I finally figured out _why_ the trucks in the ads and catalogs didn't look right to me. 

Something as simple as a board to let them put a bit more material in back... and absorb the impacts of front end loader buckets as they dumped the load into the dump truck.

Location and user

Dumptrucks are far and away my favorite mode of mechanized transport,plus how I make a living, but I will try not to bore you too much. OSCR is right about the Herpes trucks looking bad, but if they were as accurate as a Tangent covered hopper they would cost $100 per truck.    

The old W900 OSCR showed is a very old tooling, think of the Tyco of model trucks.  The T800 is a more modern truck. It has been replaced by the T880 but there are many 800s still in service.

Here in the states, the location modeled makes a difference in the truck as well as products hauled.  Where I live in Ohio long straight trucks with 3 or 4 steerable pusher axles  are the norm. Virginia is the same way. But just one state away in Indiana or Kentucky most run one non steerable tandem tired pusher and haul the same tonnage.  Years ago when trucks were growing with payloads there were some companies that tried external axles too. Stinger, and Strong Arm but had axles that attached to the frame and stuck out behind the tailgate.   The product hauled also affects the bed. A steel bed is needed to haul demolition materials.  Whereas a truck hauling only new stone is aluminum to save weight. Here in the midwest when stone use slows down in the winter trucks haul road salt from around lake Erie. The will eat a steel bed in a hurry.  Most asphalt companies use steel beds also for durability. Small tandem axled trucks are common for excavation companies but 5 or 6 axle trucks are the norm for a broker truck stockpiling stone.

The side boards Jeff mentioned are common to make a sacrificial piece for loaders on a site.  A modern quarry has auto loaders that fill the truck from above and do not involve equipment.

Here is a few pics:

Besides this being my living I also live on the primary road to the second largest quarry in the state, when I read this thread I figured I would try to get some quick pics. This is the end of my driveway here. The truck above is a fairly new KW W900L.   The bed is from Alfab other companies like East also make smooth, modular side beds. These are lighter, stronger and dont show dents. A truck like this hauls about 21 tons of stone.  Another cheater gets it close to 24 tons.The smooth sides are also advertised as more aerodynamic.  If you zoom in on the mudflaps you can see little eye bolts.  These have cables that pull the mudflaps up when the truck is in reverse.  You used to have to get out and hook them to the bed or they get pulled off.   Not anymore, even dump trucks have been made for lazy people.  

Steve

So, what I'm seeing/hearing is...

Dear Steve, MRHers,

Thanks soo much for the first-hand info! Have to say though, what I'm seeing/heariing is:
- Each state/geographical location may be different in terms of rules, usage case, and mechanical preference,
esp when era is factored-in
- It's up to the modeller to do their research for the prototype/inspiration-location and era that they are basing their models on...
- Judging a model (complete) or source-fodder based on
"...I've never seen that round here (and by extension "nowadays")..." is, shall we say, 
inadvisable, given the breadth of prototypes to reference, esp when considering engineering-eras...

...funnily enough, just like any other prototype-based model one might build within this lexicon we call "Model Railroading"....

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

PS I stand by my previous comments, I'm sure we can find welcoming homes for all the unwanted Herpa/Promotex trucks and trailers, if they really are that irksome...

(...but read from that whatever you will, I'm also the kinda guy who welcomes-in MDC Shay kits,
builds them to "1 sleeper/tie per minute" performance using all stock factory mechanical parts,
and then enjoys putting them to work under "1-Take, First-take, No ReTakes" general-public exhibition conditions...   ) 

I Digress...

Just after posting.. I spotted a low bucket 6 wheeler. I'm looking for this style of dump truck:

  . 

Very common around Southern Ontario at least. 

@Prof_Klyzlr Yes googling Dump truck..even Dump truck Canada.. I immediately came across a throng of low buck dump trucks like this that are closer to the Herpa model, mind you without the lift wheels:
  

Now if I street view a Construction site or any major street here around Toronto you will see the former. They are everyhere. So it's frustrating there isn't a model available. And die cast or non-cheap plastic please.

Yes there are some impressive models on 1-87vehicles.org. One even has a workable roll top!! I guess I could apply my locomotive kitbash/detailing skills to a dump truck. It will take some time to perfect my trade! I saw the Truck with the trailer on Walthers. In fact I always check Walthers to see if there are any new models. You're right, the mud guards would have to go and the bucket isn't right but a good base for a styrene 'fix'. I've yet to get into 3D printing. On day... Thanks for this btw.

@Lou in Cali.. Thanks for the 1:87 Matchbox site. This is great!!

@Benny.. Sorry Road grader. But sometimes used for snow removal or at least they used to. I remember shoveling the driveway and seeing one come along.."oh no!!". More work to do at the end of it! Don't what I was thinking not calling it a road grader. (corrected).

@Steve. Thanks for the info. I've never seen a Dump truck with the 3 lift axle wheels! I remember 'Road or House Excavation Construction site fanning' as a kid..and I sometimes they would but a Bobcat or small Case front end loader in the bucket in lieu of a trailer. I don't know how they got it in there. I asked a worker how come they didn't do the same. And he said that it would damage the bucket. So thanks for the knowledge there. Good to have background moving forward with any aspect of modeling in the hobby. 

Thanks to everyone for their input. 

Brad

You are welcome

I think you summed it up well there Prof. I agree it is easy to find a home for those unwanted trucks. But with a little work most can be passable.  
  Brad  I use black construction paper from the kids craft closet for mud flaps. Color is good, thickness is good and they are not fragile.  
 

share what you end up making.   If you need photos lmk.  
 

Steve
 

Dump beds

It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of the dump beds for trucks were made regionally, particularly in the past, so that different areas will have different appearing dump beds, simply because that's the way the local outfits made/make them. 

If having accurate looking vehicles is one of the things that motivates you, you might check this out: 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/111554826225 - 1/87 Scale Vehicle Models (private group)

or  https://www.1-87vehicles.org/