Tri-Level

I had a tri-level layout inside a modified 24' RV trailer. (The idea of using the RV worked pretty good. Completely self contained and easily moved, and it did get moved once during its life.)

My idea of a tri-level: Not so much.  The heights of my levels varied from about what you're proposing. With an office chair as you're using, the middle level WILL interfere with your ability to view the lower level. (And my benchwork was only 18" at its deepest.) I ended up going with mechanic "scooters" to operate the lower level, placing them at the two lower towns.

My upper level had 60+ inch areas. Even with me being at 6' 1" and a long reach, I still ended up using movable "kitchen step-ups" to assist in use. All visiting operators had to use them the step-ups.

A tri-level will mean less useless time spent by trains in a heiix, but you'll have two of them to build. (Mine were stacked.)

Also, my experience indicated that for me a tri-level would visually be better for flat land modeling better than mountains. (Mine layout theme was the Ozarks.) However, one might be able to lean heavily on the backdrop to give the impression of vista with some distant mountains or something.

Even with its drawbacks (and there were many), I ended up having that tri-level layout longer than any to date (11 years or so). By the end of it, I swore I'd never again do a tri-level, and never again do a helix. I've held true to that with my current final "medium" sized layout.

Suggest MUCH thorough experimentation as to shelf depth, seating, visibility, lighting, wiring, and access before you commit to a tri-level concept. Once you're underway and should you discover it's not for you, that will be an expensive mistake.

Best of luck!

Andre

I'm looking at pic of you standing, reaching 3rd level.

Your bicep is cutting off 4 inches of the shelf.  I don't think you could reach more than 6 inches without a step stool.  Any scenery in the front part of the shelf is in danger of being damaged.  If you have others operating with you, carrying a step stool around to reach 3rd level may be problematic.  I'm not sure of room size, but it looks like your are "biting off more than you can chew."

Shelf heights

Deck level ergonomics

One other thing

Something else to consider: if your operators will be switching the lower level using rolling chairs or stools then the aisle will need to be extra wide (like at least 4 feet) in those areas so that other operators can get by.  Otherwise the sitting operators will be continually jostled by others squeezing by and/or will need to roll out of the way to let people pass, interrupting their work.  Yes, I have been the seated operator at quite a few operating sessions.

Bob Bartizek

Operation and sight lines is

Operation and sight lines is one thing (OK, two things) but what about how easy it is to work on each level. It looks to me like that top level would be bear to work on. And I’d advise building the lower levels first, so you don’t have to reach in between levels to lay track, build scenery etc. lots of potential for cracked skulls and the associated bad language.

Don't see any problems with your deck heights

My deck heights are at 25", 45", and 65".  No problem on my railroad with getting takers for the yard jobs.  Plenty of options to choose from for the yard operators in terms of stools / platforms.    One thing that I do have going for me is 8' ceilings in this part of the basement. 

On the other side of the scenery divider, the lower level, when switched, is worked using a mechanics stool.  In the photo below, there were three trains meeting here, and there was ample room, and no problem viewing for the three people operating the three trains.  As Bob pointed out, I would have liked to have four feet on this side of the layout, but the space available did not allow for that.  It hasn't been much of an issue, it isn't like there is a lot of traffic when the person is working the lower level.  The aisle width is 3'.

Regards,

GNNPNUT

More Work

Thanks everybody for your input. I’m going to make some supports with 1x3 lumber and do some more testing before committing to these heights. I would like for top level to not exceed 60” and for space between levels not to be any less than 14”.

There are two plans in progress, one puts staging and the main classification yard on the lowest level, then goes directly up a helix to the second level with significant mainline running. This also gives my kids two levels they can view without assistance. The other plan, and probably the more logical plan, puts staging alone on the bottom level under only a portion of the RR, then uses a helix up to the classification yard on the second level. That would allow the second and third levels to drop around 4 inches for better access without stools or benches, but a bit less mainline running.

We are in a rural area that tends to have a sparse model railroader population. Regular operating sessions won’t be a realistic achievement for me. Maybe a special event or open house coinciding with Pittsburgh area conventions and jamborees for those traveling up from the south. So while I do want to be operator-friendly, I may as well build for my comfort (and the family) than for the average hobbyist.

You have obviously put a lot of thought into this already.....

Just a couple of observations. 

• I went and looked at your track plan on your blog.  For the most part, you have nice wide aisles to allow for the use of a mechanics stool when working the lower level, where you seem to be leaning towards putting your yard and staging.
• I would limit your benchwork width on that lowest level to 24", or if you really want to stretch it, 30".  1/3 of my lower deck is 16" or less, and just will concentrate on scenic elements in these areas.  In the other areas where there will be industries (a limestone pit, and on the other side of the wall, a lumber mill), I have limited the depth to 24 to 26", and most of the track to be switched is within 16" of the edge. 

This view has a good overall view showing my viaduct.  This photo is three years old, and the bridge now has a piece of plexiglass in front of it to protect it, and shows up in the earlier photo. The scenic backdrop is 16" from the edge at this point.   There is not much painted on the backdrop, as I am modeling eastern to southeastern Washington state.  It isn't exactly a scenic wonderland in this area except immediately south of Spokane. 

On the older section of my railroad, the benchwork height is 52".  I designed and built it before I had children.  That didn't stop the kids from enjoying the railroad, and they spent a lot of time on two step step stools.  My mill gons hauled a lot of revenue traffic consisting of dinosaurs.  My son fought many a battle with his 1/87 miniature German and American army miniatures.  I think my yard at Worley doubled as an acceptable stand-in for Stalingrad for a few afternoons.  He was always careful around my equipment too. 

I'm enjoying you starting your journey on this layout.  Brings back a lot of memories from 20 plus years ago.  BTW, my daughters painted the backdrop on the upper level about 7 years ago. 

Regards,

Jerry

shelf height

a broken arm

I have always viewed the idea of building a layout so high that to use it you have to carry a step stool or ladder around to see it a bit like being in incredible pain from having a broken leg, but then just taking painkillers to take the pain away but not doing anything about the broken bones but just hobbling around on crutches so that you don't have to use your leg. it just seems like defeating the point of the objective. Just get the broken bone fixed and then the pain will be gone AND you will be able to use the leg. 

A layout built so high that you can't use it is like the broken leg, and carrying a stool around to stand on is taking the pain killer to solve the problem.Just build the layout (fix the broken leg) at a level that you can use it surely. 

perhaps this is an irrational thought but maybe you could do it.

I have not see it done this way so there may be good reasons to reject this right off the bat but I'll mention it anyway. Could the rear of the upper shelf be raised while the front is a bit lower - of course you could still keep the track level - except where super elevation is needed on curves and such. There is room later to install LED strip lighting near the front with less problems reaching and seeing the top shelf. I think all three layers could have the same pitch from back to front and therefore look more esthetically pleasing to the eye.  it may however cause difficulty on the bottom shelf trying to cram your neck to look under the lip of the mid layer. 

Hinged upper deck

Rick:

Thats a really good idea. I’ve seen a short clip somewhere that demonstrated a hinged upper deck that provided access to an equipment panel behind the layout.

There is a spot on my layout where the rear wall is 3’-3 1/2’nfrom the front of the layout. I wanted a deep scene to represent the town “up the hill” from the tracks (and am contemplating smaller scale structures further back) but working on this area seems like a head banger. There will be 20” rail to rail but that isn’t really much space in 1/4” scale. 

The idea of a hinged portion has gotten me thinking ...

State of Flux

Thanks everybody for their input. My wife wants some space in the basement for her crafting area. Originally we settled on a 7’ wide space in the corner of the basement, but I drew up a new track plans that might accomplish multiple goals:

• 8’x9’ crafting room with 4 walls.
• Two deck layout with “Nolix” design
• extended mainline run
• staging does block water heater access

The design is still in a fluid state right now due to multiple factors, but I think we’re closer than we were before. Projected deck heights of 36” and 58”. After 40+ track plans drawn in the past 6 months, I’m getting tired of planning and would like to build soon, lol.

I haven’t cleared the larger craft room with new walls with the wifey, and the HVAC in our house is older and “unbalanced” due to a large addition added by previous owner. The HVAC needs whatever it needs before building a layout. We’ll know more in a few weeks.