Double Slip at Peninsula Entrance

As I mentioned in the opening here is where I had posted that original peninsula plan over my plans.

My initial thoughts were that I would be 'feeding' this central peninsula area with 2 tracks coming in from 2 mainlines,...one from the helix area, and one from a track along the right hand side of the layout. My next thought was it would be nice to have the option that either of these two 'entering tracks' could select either of at least 2 tracks into the peninsula area itself.... THUS the double slip turnout up at the junction of these 2 entrance tracks.

Container Terminal Zone

Container Terminal Zone

We will look at this area first, since that is the order I took it in, and it is likely more 'developed' in my mind at this time.

Since my container yard is relatively short (only partial length of the peninsula) I figured I needed at minimum 2 tracks of length running under the loading/unloading cranes to get a decent amount of container action in the scene.
Yes, I realize that this is not prototypical, but I was heavily influenced by these 2 images,..

I had used this same 2 track configuration on my upper west coast container yard, but with the 2 tracks spaced apart to the outer edges of the space under the cranes. The truck/trailers up there can run down the central strip of concrete between the 2 outer tracks to gather, or drop off their containers, to be handled by the train loading/unloading cranes.

I was unsure of exactly how I wanted to space those 2 tracks down in this yard? Then I got to thinking, what if I went ahead and installed 3 tracks, with the option to chose later which combination of 2 tracks I might make use of in the future.? Wait a minute, aren't these tracks under the cranes paved flush with concrete so the tires of the cranes can roll over them? ...Of course, so why not lay down that 3^rd container track under the cranes, such that the option exist to use any 2 of the 3 tracks. This might exist in real life as well? I'm pretty sure I want to go forward with this option of 3 container tracks that are buried flush with the concrete paving that the cranes and trucks can drive all around on.

Upper container yard with 2 tracks,...

Lower container yard with 3 tracks

NOTE: Those 3 tracks and their cranes are set inboard of the edge of the peninsula by another full track along that edge; 1) It keeps those train loading cranes away from the aisle traffic, and 2) it provides an escape / runaround track for locos that get stuck out at the end of the peninsula, once having pulled a train into this container area.

So next I had to provide turnouts to those 3 'container tracks'. I did this utilizing 2 dble-curved Peocs coupled to the dble slip switch., then another dbl-curve,  and 2 long Y's. I played with various combinations of turnouts to arrive at this solution.

One particular aspect that made it more difficult to solve, was that I also wanted to be able to route a locomotive using that 'escape' track to jump back over to the broader radius track of those 2 tracks that are curving off to the left. Most of the steam engines (particularly the long ones) need to use that outer 24”-25” radius track to get to their turntable/roundhouse stowage. Most of the diesels can use that inner 22” radius curve to get back over to the freight yard.

If the primary mainline loco arrives pulling its load into the left most container track, then it could uncouple and back out onto that 24-25” r escape track WITHOUT having to proceed to the end of the peninsula,...so there may be good reason to bring long steam engines in on that container track, uncouple it and send it backwards to the turntable, then let a switcher type loco take over from there.

One other thought about that double slip at the entrance. If a train arrives that has misc cars interspersed in between container cars that need unloading, then those odd ball cars could be uncoupled and backed onto the other incoming track,..awaiting placement once the container cars are all handled?

Yard size and access

Hi,

what I like is the fact that the container yard is of a similar size compared to your other yard.

As for the access, I cannot give you any advice on that as I don't have a good enough understanding on where your trains are coming from and going to. Anyway, when you mentioned in the text you had tracks coming in from two sides my first thought was you could have those two tracks coming in on either side of the peninsula, the one from the back right going along the left peninsula side and the one from the helix along the right peninsula side. That would give you wider curves, but would split the peninsula into two separate scenes. Which might not be what you want.

Anyway, I applaud your laying the scene out as far as possible and letting it develop "on the layout."

Have fun!

Locomotive Escape Routes

Locomotive Escape Routes (from the container loading/unloading)

First off, here is an overview of the container yard trackage that I am currently considering very seriously.


Here is the primary problem that keep running thru my mind as I was developing this container zone. The 'big guys' would be bringing trains into this container area, and possible be selecting one of the 3 tracks available under the cranes. Once they have done their mainline delivery service, how do I get them disconnected, and then back to their maintenance or storage areas, and then let the switchers go to work. And can this same capability exist 1) on all 3 of those tracks, and 2) for very long engines??

I decided to select a very long steam engine I had, to determine the possibilities. If I can make it work for this loco, I shouldn't complain about any others. The loco is a Santa Fe 4-8-4 Northern with a very long tender.

At first I thought I was going to be able to utilize the short parallel track plan similar to that of the original TPFJ along with some simple crossings. But I shortly discovered that I would need a (much) longer peninsula to both accommodate the required 'tailing track' (don't know the proper name for this), AND the turnouts to get the loco onto that runaround (escape) track along the edge. Without a much longer peninsula I would be left with a container yard of only 1 or 2 car lengths,...maybe?

This resulted in my introduction of another double-slip crossing. Here you can see how that allows for that very long SF loco to sit on either of those 'tailing tracks' and still back down to the escape track on the far left. And with the addition of 2 other crossover turnouts the 3^rd track can delivery a long steam (or consisted diesels) engine to one of those 'tailing tracks'.

A happy result also, is that these 'tailing tracks' are long enough to accept a pair (rather than just one) of the unloaded container cars to be towed back to the freight yard, or brought in from the freight yard.

The tailing end of the escape track can be used to temporarily hold two container cars, or might be used to hold a switcher engine that would work the container yard.

Container Cars on Tailing Tracks

3 of those 'tailing tracks' can accommodate 2 container cars

Switch Tower

Just for the fun of it I thought I might play with a couple of structures on that peninsula.

That dbl-slip switch and two dbl-curves at the entrance certain deserve a switching tower. I have a better one than the one shown, but it was the most accessible at this time.

It might also be appropriate that those track crews have a bit of an off-duty resting spot.

Multi-unit Container Cars

After mocking up this container area, I suddenly became concerned if I would be able to fit a '5-unit set' of container cars into my terminal?

I went on the forums and discovered that:
1) a 5-unit set of 40 foot cars is 36.5" overall length
2) a 5-unit set of 48 foot cars is about 41" long

The shortest length terminal track I have is that one with the 2 container cars sitting on it,...and the distance between those 2 turnouts on either end is about 42",...WOW., looks like I can fit both of those 2 size sets on that track.

Interestingly that is the only container track of the 3 that I could spot such a 5-unit set on, while being able to get it off and back over to the freight yard after unloading.
 

Is the clearance...

Is the clearance enough not to interfere with the adjacent track? In the picture the well car by the double slip switch doesn't have enough clearance. I hope when you measured the tracks you left enough clearance on both ends? 

Just asking...

Neal

"Here is the primary problem

   I think it would be more common for the mainline trains to terminate somewhere near the waterfront and then a switch engine or local engine switch out the intermodal tracks and the car float . The intermodal tracks could be made stub ended and longer  if you didn't have to worry about the long engines escaping. A run around track somewhere before the intermodal yard could handle run around for all the intermodal tracks. In addition a carfloat yard would typically contain enough tracks to hold cars going on and off the float, so  3 spur tracks between the float lead and the intermodal yard might be added ( or share the intermodal tracks with the car float facility as needed) .....DaveB

@Neal You are correct there,

@Neal
You are correct there, as pictured there is not enough clearance. But that was just a rough draft mock-up. That stub track can be longer.

@DaveB I think it would be

@DaveB

Not sure what waterfront you are referring to here? Are you saying I should consider terminating the mainline trains prior to that entrance way dbl-slip switch?...then provide for a route for them to 'get home'? Is that what you are saying here,....

If so,  I do not see any way I could provide a good runaround track of reasonable radius that would get mainline locos from those two entrance trades to the turntable or freight yard home ports.

Agreed.
But then I am left with how to get the container cars themselves out of stub ended tracks. I am believing that to get container yard tracks only marginally longer, then subsequently losing the ability to get locos and cars out of stub ended tracks is not worth that option.

I have additional discussion to add, that may effect this idea, but I was trying to get thru much of the container track plan before I went over to that other portion of the peninsula.

Video of 2 track arrangement

Video or a dbl-track arrangement under the crane, along with a third row of stacked containers on the ground

Head end of the container yard

Hi,

Overall this is looking like a very nice scene, however I don't like the complexity of the escape track arrangement. The "head end" so to say.

Looking at the scene, do you really need three tail tracks (head tracks?)? If you delete the center loco track, you can get rid of the double-slip. Also I seriously doubt the extra crossover on the inner track - it will shorten the effective length of your longest track and it doesn't really add that much value operationally.

The container yards I've seen are rather massive affairs but they have really simple trackage. If you look at the large facility near Munich https://www.openrailwaymap.org/?lang=null&lat=48.14434133756473&lon=11.698476076126099&zoom=16&style=standard - check out the east side. There is a train-sized yard lead attached to about half of the tracks and an arrangement similar to yours only on the southern group of tracks.

I've seen mainline locos hauling unit container trains straight into the facility. Which is interesting as the locos are electrics and there is no overhead lines where the cranes operate. That is actually the reason for the very long shunting lead - the train is pulled right into the yard lead from the main track, then pushed back into the crane track.

Would it work for you to have just a single head shunt (edit: tail track) with simple trackage connecting it - you would still be able to pull large locos in it from tracks 1 through 3 (counting from the aisle)? Track 4 could either be a stub track and require some shunting to get a train into or could be connected to the tail track only allowing short locos.

Actually, you could even consider not having any escape track at all. This is the "best spot" in your layout, in terms of what people see when they come in first. Now you have all those beautiful steamers. Why not leave them sit there as long as the train is being loaded and display them?

Have fun!

Change to 2 Track Container Yard

A good number of participates on this forum and another have encouraged me to reduce the tracks in container terminal to 2 rather than the 3 I was contemplating. So here is my quick mock-up.

I had to choose those 2 tracks that were the furthermost to the left, due to the manner in which they intersected with that diagonal track at the end of the peninsula. This would leave me with longest tail track to utilize in routing the loco(s) back onto that runaround track on the far left.

Even then I can only accommodate the longest steam engines, or double headed diesels, on the tail track if they are coming ONLY from the far left container track. Here are a few photos that show those length accommodations,..

You can see here that the longer length steam engines or dbl-diesels could not successfully use the right most container track to runaround,...they would be confined to using just that one track on the left.

There is a very nice consequence of going to this 2 track arrangement,...it greatly simplifies the number of switches, and eliminates the dbl-slip. 

(PS: so please don't accuse me of never listening to advice from the peanut gallery....ha...ha)
 

Peanut here.

What I haven't seen so far is any consideration for a temporary track extension to the right of that BNSF unit in the last photo.  Is that aisleway sacrosanct, or could you put a temporary extension on it to allow a longer consist without pushing the switch further into the yard?  That's what I'd be thinking about.  Maybe a swing-up length of ply, 12-16" long, held in place only when you're wanting a consist to escape?

Blair

@Blair, I don't think that

@Blair,
I don't think that would be kosher. Prototype rr have to work within certain physical constrains, and in this situation I think my model rr should try to do that also.

Wye

My mistake, I mistook the two diverging routes at the base of the peninsula was two legs of a wye.

Faust Junction

Hi Brian,

Following this discussion with great interest as I have no practical experience with operations. But I do have a question about your plans for the yard at Faust Junction.
I seems to me you could only pull out from the yard onto the turntable. Would be an ideal alignment for you?

Following this discussion

I assume you are speaking of pulling out of the container terminal yard, then going where?.....NO,  not only to the turntable.

Here is an earlier full-scale track plan for that area in question.
 

The white area in the center is the aisle. The brown area on the far left is the head of the 'freight yard', and the brown area on the right is the trunk area of the center peninsula. Those 2 tracks curving up out of the peninsula are the escape/feed tracks for the container yard tracks.

The bigger (outer) radius curve is a 24-25" radius one that handles the bigger steam engines. It can bring those engines into, or out of, the turntable OR the coaling tower area.

The smaller(inner) curve is 22' radius. It can handle most diesel engines being moved between the container yard tracks and the freight yard located (out of site) on that left hand side.

Does that answer your question? (thanks for your interest)

Try minimizing the trackage

Brian, you've got a lot of track, and I'm not sure you have a purpose for all the tracks.  Why two tracks around the end of that aisle - surely one track would get the job done just as well?  That would simplify trackage on the peninsula a little, and in the yard area.

And speaking of the yard area, I'd suggest thinking about a previous suggestion on this thread - make the container yard tracks on the peninsula stub tracks.  Terminate the container train in the yard, run the big power into the roundhouse, use a switcher to shove the container cars around onto the peninsula.  That would let you have a bigger container yard (no need for the switches and tail track on the end).

BTW, here is a pic of that

BTW, here is a pic of that freight yard area, and the coaling tower structure. You can see where that inner curved track becomes a ladder arrangement to get trains into the freight yard. That ladder also can send locos on out to the mainline over there, OR to a diesel engine servicing (fuel and sand) structure further down the freight yard.

The coaling tower can be accessed from that outer curve, and/or the engines can run on out to a mainline to the far left. And/or the coaling tower links up directly with the turntable for steam engine service. (there is also a track provided for the coal cars to bring their loads in to supply the coaling tower)

Port Facility / Carfloat Possibilty

I guess its time to start taking about this right hand side of my peninsula trackplan,...a port area.
I'm definitely going to need help here.

Before I lose track of it I wanted to make a link to this discussion I just discovered that dealt with using a trackmobile for loading a carfloat
http://www.carendt.com/articles/layout-design-contest-entries/
http://www.carendt.com/articles/layout-design-contest-entries/07-port-nairn/

...and a image that might end up helping with track planning?

"...and a image that might

  I'd suggest looking at real float yards instead of layout plans of float yards. Eliminate the middle man in the process to reduce the distance from the reality. The Goldstein website has real float yards of all sizes for study and inspiration.......DaveB

Brian...

Brian,

You're posting images of too many areas. We're all trying to help you with one specific area and then you show us something else. Don't want to sound crass, but let us help you with one area and maybe start a different thread for the other area. 

Still trying to see what's going on with the intermodal and port area... 

Neal