Station Agent

I'm using my Cricut Explore Air 2 to cut out an image drawn in CAD. I exported a DXF file and brought it into the Design Space. The software re-assembled it and cut the mess shown on the right in the photo.

t%20test.jpg 

A rep from Cricut advised me to "select all" and "attach". However this locks up the DS window, both the browser version and Mac desktop version. She says the image is too complex. So I tried to do only the upper third of the page. It locked up as well.   Here is the workspace with the DXF file:

f_screen.jpg 

If I convert the DXF to an .svg file it displays on the grid in the wrong size.  I cannot "select all" to move it either.  Even converting it to a jpeg has sizing issues.

Could it be I am asking too much of the software?  The Cricut is a great machine but this is leaving me with the impression that the software isn't good for much more than cutting out a circle.

 

Barry Silverthorn

Reply 0
mark_h_charles

As a general observation,

I recommend doing image manipulations and format conversion in a design tool. (I like Inkscape.) Take the simplest possible file into the software that ddives the machine.

Mark Charles

Reply 0
Rick Sutton

Some thoughts

A purely NON TECHNICAL approach based on the problems I have had. Listed in random order.

Looking at your artwork in the upper left corner of your post I have cut shapes like that many, many times without problems. I think the key word is "shapes". The Cricut likes to cut out outlines of a shape. Your artwork looks like it is a series of individual lines (which is verified by the gray column on the right side of the DS software). These  lines might be problematic as the Cricut will automatically rearrange "objects" into the most efficient form for the machine to cut them out.....it wants to help you conserve materials. Even using shapes the Cricut will decide where to put them on the cutting mat which can make a mess of things hence the rep's mention of the attach function. 

I can't remember the last time I had to use the attach function as I have settled (after struggling with SVG and others) on 300 DPI bitmap PNG files with transparent background. Yes, vector files are infinitely more accurate but you are dealing with a machine that does not take advantage of all that accuracy....it's moving and spinning a miniature xacto type blade designed to cut cute flower designs. Considering its intended use it does a pretty good job for modeling if you recognize its limitations. We're not cutting aerospace parts here. I group the multiple shapes in Affinity software, export as a PNG to my desktop before importing to Cricut and the Cricut does not pull it apart like it is doing to your files. They cut very accurately.

If you use a browser forget Safari....use Chrome.

You will always need to be ready to resize in the Design Space software. I often use a thin rectangle shape at the top of the file that is exactly 3.000" in length to help with this. On the file below I just had Affinity measure its width, jotted that number down and when the file was selected in Design Space entered the number in the width box (synched with height) at the top of the DS page. Bam! Sized properly.

 Try taking one of your items and turn it into a solid shape, not lines and see what happens. Adjust and experiment from there. PNG is your friend.

I cut files like this all the time. The Cricut sees this as one set of instructions not hundreds or thousands. Out of curiosity it would be interesting to scan down the cut file column on the right side of DS and see how many cut files Cricut sees in your design.

reenshot.png 

Just some thoughts.

Reply 0
krjone01

Convert to SVG with InkScape.

 

DXF files are a relatively complex format that the Design Space software ignores many entites that can be described with it. Blocks, polylines, layers all get ignored. Then there are different revision of the dxf specification you have to deal with.  I have had better luck with converting the DXF to SVG file with Inkscape, and uploading the SVG.

That being said, there appears to be an exponential performance bug in the Design Space software. The more object you add the worse the performance gets exponentially, not linearly. So try cutting the number of objects down that you are trying to cut in design space at once.

I wish they were more open source about their software as I am sure the community could probably write a much better DXF exporter. However, Provocraft has always been very protective of their trade secrets.

Kevin Jones
On30, HO, Unfinished basement, Lots of Wishful Thinking

Reply 0
Rick Sutton

More thoughts

I went back through my files and found examples of SVG files that cut successfully.

Heres one. You can see that they are individual lines listed in the cut file on the right and the attach instruction at the top.

%20tails.png Notice how solid the lines are and that they obviously connect at the corners.

 

Looking closely at your file the lines that Cricut sees are quite different looking. They seem to have gaps and odd diversions from straight paths. I'm sure that you have noticed it but just wanted to point out the difference. If there is ANY ambiguity or small difference in the originating file Cricut just takes a guess. I've seen that one before. The native resolution in Design Space is IMO fairly low and needs a relatively simple set of instructions to interpret.

This is an enlargement of your Design Space screen shot which looks a lot like the artwork shown at the top left of your post.

ds(1).png           barry.png 

My guess is that the rep was right. All those weird gaps and unsolid lines had the Cricket trying to figure out a boat load of instructions....it isn't THAT smart!

Reply 0
TR

Creating DXF for Inkscape for Cricut Design Space

Thanks Rick! Was afraid I had bought the cutest boat anchor ever...

With the info from your post, I was able to take my SW drawing exported as a DXF into Inkscape, fill in the lines, export that as a PNG, bring that into Design Space and cut...

I had two issues, one is that the Inkscape fill command is graphical and you need to mess with the settings and zoom way in to get nearly complete filling such that Design Space doesn't think you want little slices cut out of the interior.

The second is on bringing the DXF into Inkscape, it thickens the lines thus making the outer shape larger. I could... figure out how wide it is thickening it and make my DXF smaller by half the thickness, but I am hoping you know a better way to import it? That would keep the outer size the same. And potentially fill the shape?

Thanks!

Reply 0
Rick Sutton

TR

Glad to hear that the info helped you out! The issues with fill and line thickening in the method you are using could be solved if you moved to Affinity Photo. I gave up SVG, DXF, vector programs etc. a few years ago and moved EVERYTHING to Affinity output asPNG.....AP is built for graphic editing and easy filling of objects. It is often on sale for $25 (I bought it for $50 years ago with lifetime free updates and it was the best $50 I've ever spent in this hobby). 

 Good luck with your projects. Let's see what you are doing!

Reply 0
Douglas Meyer

While I cant speak for the

While I cant speak for the OP…..  A lot of folks are used to a particular software and while I understand why some people suggest a different software, usually if some wants to use a given software it is because they are are experienced in the software they are asking about.

Personally i use cad pretty much every working day for the last 20+ years.  And learning another software to do the same thing (but worse) is just not something I am interested in.  I am interested in these machines but will hold off until I can export a scaled image from cad and get the machine to cut said image accurately.  
 

And yes I know we are (sort of) asking these machines to go above and beyond the original purpose but more and more they are being marketed for the hobbyist / maker and not just the scrapbook folks.  So hopefully the manufacturers will start updating the software.  

As for the software having problems with importing a DXF…. DXFs are common in use with XY cutter, CNC routers and that kind of thing.  So if there is an issue it is with the software the device is using.

-Doug M

Reply 0
Rick Sutton

Doug

You make solid points. When you learn how to control sophisticated software like a CAD program the expectations are high when sending the file to a cutter/plotter that the product will match the design. And then there is the Cricut and it's software (Design Space). 

Cricut "don't care". I also believe that the Cricut company doesn't recognize hobbyists like ourselves as a viable market for them. I would be ecstatic if they would make a machine and a software solution that could easily cut .040 styrene, have the ability to produce crisp 90 degree corners and have a resolution of 300 DPI. Oh yeah, all for under $300.

 If wishes were horses.

Meantime we become the masters of the "workaround". 

Not venting here........just relating my experiences. When I decided to embark on the journey to design and build unique photo lam structures for my layout the common recommendation was to start with a vector program, transfer the files to a different program to lay out the photo lam shots to match the vectors, move the files into Design Space, hope that it doesn't fracture into hundreds of pieces and resize everything...........what a pain in the butt. Six months of hobby hell and zero results of any value. Yup, I failed and it wasn't until I simplified the whole process did it start to become helpful in limited situations.

 OK, I guess that I am venting. I realize that my use of the Cricut is specific to my needs and doesn't always relate to the level of accuracy a CAD user is accustomed to and I'm convinced that waiting for Cricut to "up their game" is..........well, a waste of time.........

 For those that are just stepping into the Cricut ecosystem please realize that Cricut is a crafting machine, is limited in use, and the Print then Cut feature is useful for small doodads but the image printed is a relatively low resolution print and does not measure up to a proper print that is produced in a good inkjet......even the color accuracy is dodgy. Does it work for microwave antennas for details on buildings? Yes. Would I use it to print the front facade of a building? No.

r%202(1).png 

 

Reply 0
TR

Cricut!

I found myself nodding in agreement to all that was written, and maybe having a chuckle, too.

I design medical devices, super small implanted metal items that are routinely laser cut from DXF files where .0005" matters. Taking a step back with those expectations for what the Cricut can do can lead to many fun hobby projects. Would I prefer to work in vector based software, absolutely. But I can live with however Design Space is creating its version of G code for the little cutter. The extra software steps is a pain, but that is why we call it a hobby!

As for an image of what I am using the Cricut for...Stay tuned to Track 29 on Facebook and you will soon see the next release that will be using the Cricut cut templates as in intermediate step in finishing a model I have wanted in N scale for a long time. Gotta love the new breed of home use 3D printers!

Reply 0
rick112

Cricut Design Space & DXF Files

My wife has been using our Cricut to cut vinyl for simple shapes and she seems happy with the output.  I have been testing the Cricut Maker for cutting polystyrene with an eye to scratch building structures.  I use AutoCAD to draw the models and I want to export via DXF.  Really basic shapes seem to import with some effort and they cut well.  I was very pleased with the preliminary testing and that's why I have put more effort into solving the import issue.  The research I did suggested this was the best device for cutting polystyrene (up to 1mm).  The down pressure being the issue.  It was suggested the Silhouette just didn't have the down pressure to work with the material I wanted to use.

The machine itself seems fine.  It is basically and X,Y plotter from the 80's using a knife instead of a pen.  There isn't really any reason this device couldn't have been designed with a carousel to load multiple cutting tools.  The real issue is crappy software and by now they know it.  The youtube videos on Design Space aren't complimentary when it comes to DXF.  If I'd seen them I might not have bought the unit.  The software development team seems to have really dropped the ball or management didn't have the vision to see other potential markets. That's good news in some ways!!  Software can re-written. 

It may take a lot of continued requests or perhaps a sales drop or potential sales gain to get Cricut management to resolve this issue.  There is a big untapped market for this thing (IMHO) if they get the software issues resolved.  It's not just a great tool for mom's.  At the price they sell this unit, it would be perfect for hobbyists and every Architects office for instance!  It would likely be the choice for anyone wanting to scratch build models.  

It doesn't need to be a fix to Design Space.  It could simply be a Windows print driver.  Imagine being able to cut directly from your favorite drawing program.  

I'm still working with Cricut tech support but from what I've seen so far I'm not going to get very far.  Has anyone tried using a generic windows printer driver?

Rick

Reply 0
rick112

Cricut Not Recommended for scratch builders ... for now.

I admit I've only taken a quick look at InkScape, but it isn't really the answer for me.  Oh if only Design Space would bring in DXF files as quickly and as easily as InkSpace did.  I want Design Space to cut what I've drawn without a lot of modifications.  Perhaps I'm looking at the wrong tool!  At this point from my testing and research I could not recommend the Cricut for scratch building models.

Rick

Reply 0
Greg Amer gregamer

My perspective

While I wish Cricut would embrace the scale model hobbyist market, I don’t see it happening. They’ve got a cash cow model with the craft market and subscriptions, supplies and tools the sell to that market. 
 

I’ve never tried DXF files with Cricut, just SVG and PNG. Those formats seem to work well. Inkscape is a decent program for use with Cricut, but I’ve had access to Illustrator and I find they play together real well. 

I’ve come to rely on the Cricut for scratch building, mask cutting, cutting signs and graphics, and making some specialized parts like coupler shims and prototype parts.

6C2E456.jpeg 
This building was engraved and cut with the Cricut Maker.
345B242.jpeg 
This building was cut with the Cricut.

6A211C9.jpeg 
This building and the mask to paint the sign were cut with Cricut.

Reply 0
Skorpio

As a cad programme numpty! 

As a cad programme numpty!  all this talk of differant complicated (to me) cad progs is no use to me!! However, I have a Brother Scanncut & this allows one to design/draw that which one wants in whichever prog' suits, then print a paper copy which can be scanned into the machine as a pattern which can then be used to cut the plastic sheet!  Is this not a possibility with the Cricut?  

I realise it's another step in the process, but surely so is exporting/importing files from one prog to another?

We can't all be computer wizards, and I'm too old now to start learning complex cad progs!!!

Keith

Reply 0
Thomas Wilson pandwvrr

Cricut is for scratchbuilders

I love scratch building but HATED to cut out the windows and doors. Cricut to the rescue. My wife bought me a machine and it sat for a year , I tried to learn Autocad but gave up on it. The I found Inkscape and I worked my way thru it with a lot of Youtube video watched trying to learn. I am not a expert but my results using Inkscape have turned out ok.  Scratch building is now fun I now have cut a quenching loco for my steel mill also. Picture is of a large building that I cut on it._resized.jpg 

Tom Wilson

Pittsburgh and West Virginia RR & Union RR

Web Site: pwvrr.webs.com

Reply 0
Rick Sutton

@Tom Wilson

That structure is spot on gorgeous and totally unique. Please show us more!

Reply 0
Thomas Wilson pandwvrr

Prototype picture that I worked off of.

Front view of the building before scenery, Second is the prototype pictures of the prototype. The model was built with full interior detail in the restaurant and Isabella's World of Fashion. My grandaughter who is 6 helped with the model. She painted the  strip wood , Picked out the colors. With my help she helped cut out the windows after the Cricut did its job. They wanted picnic tables in front of Olivas Cafe. Oliva is Zoe middle name. She wanted her store  named for her middle name. Tichy windows and doors and a few Grandt Line detail castings for the under eave fixtures . Led's lighted inside . I always make a cardstock model after drawing in Inkscape it to make sure every thing will fit._zoe_bld.jpg ermont_1.jpg mont_2_2.jpg 

Tom Wilson

Pittsburgh and West Virginia RR & Union RR

Web Site: pwvrr.webs.com

Reply 0
scotsman

Cricut and scratchbuilding

Hi Rick.

Thanks for all your research and advice on this topic. But I must admit that after watching the first full episode of your new video series on TMTV, I had assumed that you would eventually be using the Cricut to do exactly what you're saying here that you don't recommend – ie using the Cricut to cut printed buidling facades and parts for scratchbuilding. I don't want to preempt your series, but I also don't want to start thinking about purchasing a Cricut machine (and potentially an inkjet printer – I only have a colour laser) if it's not going to be worthwhile in the end laying out all that cash.

Can you clarify anything for me please?

Best wishes

Jock

Reply 0
Rick Sutton

Hey Jock!

I took the liberty to address your question over on a new thread.

 Here's the link.   https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/qa-about-the-tmtv-video-series-photo-realistic-modeling-with-rick-sutton-12219177

Reply 0
dapenguin
My perspective

While I wish Cricut would embrace the scale model hobbyist market, I don’t see it happening. They’ve got a cash cow model with the craft market and subscriptions, supplies and tools the sell to that market. 
 I’ve never tried DXF files with Cricut, just SVG and PNG. Those formats seem to work well. Inkscape is a decent program for use with Cricut, but I’ve had access to Illustrator and I find they play together real well.


They have with the 'Maker' but still with lousy software.  I am saving my pennies for a Silhouette Cameo 4 in black.  Meanwhile, I have the loan of a Cricut Air 2 in pink.

TC Carr
Malheur, Kopperton & Tejas * Sn3½ in 1923
(the I don't know yet) * Sn2 "Gilpin in Idaho"
​Anaconda, Oregon & Pacific * S Scale Heavy Electric
My Blog Index

Reply 0
Yaron Bandell ybandell
dapenguin wrote:

They have with the 'Maker' but still with lousy software.  I am saving my pennies for a Silhouette Cameo 4 in black.  Meanwhile, I have the loan of a Cricut Air 2 in pink.
As a Cameo user myself, a word of caution: the Silhouette Design Studio application has issues with DXF imports. It can read the files, but in certain cases it doesn't faithfully represent the objects contained therein.

For example I had a simple DXF file with 4 lines and an arc object and when imported midway on one half of the arc, the curve randomly moved away from the path it should take before the line would slowly meet back up with the intended path, i.e. it would cut the corner. On a 180 degrees, 4-1/2" radius arc this sudden deviation from the correct path was nearly 1/4"!!! That same DXF file looks perfectly fine in Fusion360, FreeCAD, LibreCAD and other apps reading DXF files.

I reported the bug, showed them how to reproduce the bug reliably and after nearly 2 years still no bug fix. So I ended up having to use SVG as the import format instead. And that works just fine as is vector based as well.

The problem is this bug is a silent fail: you won't see it until you notice it and then there is no way around it besides using a different vector format like SVG. So I opted to have a SVG workflow to start out with. I strongly caution the use of DXF with Silhouette Design Studio. Maybe one of the 3rd party cutting applications available that work directly with the Cameo as well could be an alternative if DXF file use is a must.
Reply 0
dapenguin
Yaron;
Seems all them do dat🙁  Must be some bug in the conversion from Cad to drawing.  Might be a programing library issue, hmmm.
I am not a CAD user myself so run everything thru Inkscape.  As far as I know SVG works fine and is the recommended method.
I do need to learn CAD so I can do 3D and expand my horizons🙂

TC Carr
Malheur, Kopperton & Tejas * Sn3½ in 1923
(the I don't know yet) * Sn2 "Gilpin in Idaho"
​Anaconda, Oregon & Pacific * S Scale Heavy Electric
My Blog Index

Reply 0
dapenguin
Seems that there is problems with paths that become disconnected in the conversion process.

TC Carr
Malheur, Kopperton & Tejas * Sn3½ in 1923
(the I don't know yet) * Sn2 "Gilpin in Idaho"
​Anaconda, Oregon & Pacific * S Scale Heavy Electric
My Blog Index

Reply 0
Yaron Bandell ybandell
dapenguin wrote:
Yaron;
Seems all them do dat🙁  Must be some bug in the conversion from Cad to drawing.  Might be a programing library issue, hmmm.
Yeah, it's a bug in their DXF library for sure.
dapenguin wrote:
I am not a CAD user myself so run everything thru Inkscape.  As far as I know SVG works fine and is the recommended method.
I do need to learn CAD so I can do 3D and expand my horizons🙂
Yeah, with the Cameo SVG from an outside application is absolutely the way to go. I've got Inkscape installed as well, but I don't really use it. My vector graphics needs are more line technical in nature versus shape based. But once you have the hang of 2D drawing, converting to a program that does 3D isn't too big of a step.
dapenguin wrote:
Seems that there is problems with paths that become disconnected in the conversion process.
That is what I thought initially as well for the bug I reported. So I confirmed by doing several tests that the DXF import bug isn't related to having a properly closed path object or not. But yes, some operations on SVG objects act wonky if the path within the object isn't combined. But for cutting it doesn't matter much if the object is or isn't properly closed path wise. Just made sure the correct end points overlap because with the precision of these die cutters, you can notice of they don't.

Overall it's good to be aware of the concept of paths in a vector object in general. That way you can understand that reducing intermediate points in a path can speedup processing of your file both in the editor and by the die cutter itself.

I've seen people complain that it takes ages to cut around an object they imported. When you ask what the source was, they state it was a gif, jpg or png file where they did a border detect. The fuzziness of such images around the edges of what we see as objects is generating thousands of points on a path. And each path between 2 points in an object is a cutting vector being send to the die cutter. Yeah, better to manually trace the path along the object, or do path reduction on the edge detected result object to speed things up.
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