pierre52

The aim of this blog is to discuss the viability of an Open Source Model Railroad Initiative. 

Peter

The Redwood Sub

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pierre52

Background

Over the last two years the Capital Model Railway Club (CMRC) in Wellington, New Zealand has been building a new exhibition layout. 

With only 12 active members and lying half a world away from major suppliers, we have had to adopt an in house design and build approach for a good number of the items used on the layout.  That has included virtually all of the electronics and animations.

After briefly mentioning a home brewed  accessory decoder for our layout, a number of forum members have asked for details.   Having been a beneficiary of other Open Source (OS) projects such as Adrian Bowyer’s RepRap 3D printer,  our own Dr Geoff  Bunza  and of course JMRI, we felt the best way to share this information might be to make it an Open Source initiative.   In addition, there may be other components of the layout that could also be shared.

While Open Source is often linked only to computer software I prefer the following description:  “Open source revolves around the concept of freely sharing technological information so that it may be improved through multiple insights and viewpoints. Since the technology is open source, the amount of work that needs to be done is reduced because multiple contributions are added by many individuals.”

I would like to think that this “Initiative” could spread well beyond the tiny contribution that we in the CMRC can offer.  Other examples that readily spring to mind are the many model railroad related 3D printed objects freely available on fora such as Thingiverse and of course Dr Bunza’s animation projects.

I am also extremely conscious of not stepping on the toes of other initiatives such as JMRI, LCC, or commercial projects. This should be seen as complementary rather than competitive.

Peter

The Redwood Sub

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pierre52

The CMRC Layout

As the new CMRC layout forms the core of this discussion, I thought it best to provide a few details about it.   At the design stage we came up with the following givens:

  • Shape and size constrained by our Club Rooms to allow set out in an open rectangle of  17ft x 25ft. (From previous layout arrangement
  • Layout setup and breakdown to be as quick as possible
  • Inter module wiring to be kept to the bare minimum
  • Location and Era – Anywhere USA & Diesel era (This was to meet the varying eras modeled by our members)
  • Staging to be integral to modules
  • Robust storage and freighting cases
  • Accurate and simple alignment and clamping of modules
  • Reliable Operations
  • Operating signal system
  • Fully integrated with JMRI
  • A TOMA approach to construction
  • A draw card for spectators (this to take precedence over prototypical accuracy)

All of the 16 modules are 800mm (2ft 8”) wide The 2ft section is the display area and the 8” wide section is for staging.  The two are separated by a 1ft high backdrop.  The modules are either 4ft or 5ft long

The track plan is essentially 3 nested loops.  A running (display loop) on the outside, an operating loop and a staging loop.  On the running loop trains can only be run in a clockwise direction while on the operating loop trains can be run simultaneously in either direction.   There are 4 links to the staging loop to bring trains on or off show.

We have been the beneficiaries of a deceased former member who left the club a considerable amount of equipment from his home layout.  This included a Digitrax DCS 240 Command Station and a large quantity of Peco turnouts.  A station on the layout proudly bears his name.

Peter

The Redwood Sub

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pierre52

Year 1

As we managed to sell our previous layout at our main exhibition in November 2017, we needed to get a wriggle on with our new layout.

In that first year we managed to construct all 16 modules and  8 aluminum storage cases.  We designed a track layout and laid most of the track together with 68 servo controlled turnouts and about 78 signals. 

Alignment and clamping was achieved with a combination of table pins and “Norse” latches. (This aspect was published in the April 18 Edition of MRH – “Toma: Bringing it all Together)    https://forum.mrhmag.com/magazine-feedback-was-ezines-891776

In addition, our electronics guru had come up with a PCB design that would enable occupancy detection, signal control,  turnout  control, animation and lighting effects and short circuit protection.  We made and fitted one of these PCBs  to each module.   A loconet bus connected each of the 16 PCBs together and to a dispatchers PC running loconet.   

0Decoder.JPG 

Our intra module wiring consisted of three connections:

  • Track Bus
  • Accessory Bus
  • Loconet

ions%202.jpg 

Only one module had any scenery but the bare layout was displayed with trains running. at our Exhibition in November 2018.

Our aim of improving setup and take down times was also achieved.  From arrival at the venue to trains running was under 2 hours (Previous layout was over 4 hours).  Take down was 1.5 hours.

Peter

The Redwood Sub

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pierre52

Year 2

That first exhibition provided a number of valuable lessons so a number of modifications were made to the track plan.  Being a club design each of the members has their own views that can vary from “we need more track” to “less is more”.  Similarly concepts of how scenery should look vary considerably.   It then becomes a case of attempting to achieve compromise between view points while also trying to achieve a consistent “look”

Notwithstanding, we have endeavored to harness individual expertise by appointing Subject Matter Experts (SMEs)  in areas such as electronics, hand laid track, building construction, scenery etc etc.

Of necessity, 90% of the track had to be laid on all of the modules.  However, in this second year we have taken more of a TOMA approach by doing scenery one module at a time.  When a Module is done to a certain level, the adjacent module is connected and the scenery carried across to the next one.  Scenery is now at the 75% complete stage on 5 modules and at about the 30% stage on a further  4 modules.  

None of the modules have been ballasted and we will probably leave this for as long as possible.  Changing track layouts is a lot easier when the track hasn’t  been ballasted  and we would prefer to get a lot more running time under our belts.

The layout was on display again last weekend and I have attached a short video to give a sense of how we are trying to achieve the aim of being a draw card for spectators.  This is my first attempt at video editing so please forgive all the issues.

Peter

The Redwood Sub

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pierre52

Railex 2019 Set Up

In addition to the video, I thought it might be useful to show some photos of the layout set up at Railex 2019.

ing%201s.jpg 

All sixteen modules in their frames ready for loading.  Adjustable feet being wound down to 0

ing%202s.jpg 

First two frames in the truck.  It's a tight fit

ing%203s.jpg Truck loaded.  Everything fits - Just.  The grey box is a carry frame for our Blast furnace structure.  The top unbolts and the base plugs straight into the module with connections for both track power and lighting.  There are over 2000 LEDs on this structure alone.

 

0up%201s.jpg Set up begins.  The length of timber in the hands of the guy in the middle of the picture is actually a layout jig that sets the spacing for each of the 8 frames.  The frame at the left of the picture contains our power supplies and Digitrax DCS 240  command station.  One switch on the front panel switches everything on/off.

tup%202s.jpg Set up nearing completion with all Frames/Modules in place.  As you can see, the Frames double as legs to support the Modules.  With the Norse latches there is no risk of modules pulling apart.  We use a laser level to set the height correctly for each Frame.

tup%203s.jpg 

Two hours after arrival at the venue, set up is complete and trains are running.  The two monitors on the Dispatchers desk show the JMRI panel on the left and Route selection options on the right.   The backboard is in place and you can see the staging loops on this side of the backboard with one of the staging exits just to the right of the second monitor.  Plywood tops on each of the Frames make great shelves for storing rolling stock etc.

We run a Wifi router and make extensive use of Engine Driver and Wi Throttle for running trains.  Many of our members prefer to run their trains from outside the layout as it makes it much easier to communicate with the public.  It also makes it a lot easier to avoid running red signals. 

Interference with the Wifi signal has yet to happen. Duplex Digitrax throttles can also be used.

Peter

The Redwood Sub

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pierre52

Crowd Reaction

I mentioned at the start that we would focus this layout on making it attractive to the public as a priority over any claim to prototypical accuracy.  To that end, we make no excuse for what some might regard as excessive bling.

Over the two days of the show, I believe our approach was vindicated if the level of interest and number of comments made to us was anything to go by.  Her are some typical photos of crowd reactions during the showowd%201s.jpg 

owd%202s.jpg 

owd%204s.jpg 

owd%205s.jpg 

Most of those taking photos with smart phones were actually females in the 20 to 30 age bracket!!   There was also a huge number of kids of all ages.  (Who says the hobby is dying). 

Comment of the weekend went to a 30 something female who had clearly been dragged to the show by her partner.  However, when she stood in front of our road works scene with the roller going back and forth and various Faller cars and trucks stopping for the Stop/Go lights, she turned to one of our guys and said "I could stand here and watch this all day".  Her smile said it all.

 

Peter

The Redwood Sub

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pierre52

Faller Cars

I should point out that the Faller Cars are fully integrated with the trains and JMRI.  A train on the ops loop will activate lights and barrier arms as it approaches a crossing (occupancy detection).  When that happens the stop coils in the road bed are activated and both Stop/Go lights at the road works go red.  Once the  train clears the block the arms go up and after a brief pause the vehicles head off.    This is all coordinated through JMRI Logix.

The Road Works scene was actually devised to regulate the spacing between cars. Every vehicle is stopped at the road works and released after a short delay to ensure even spacing between vehicles.

The Road Roller is driven by a small stepper motor and a I will share details of that later.

 

Peter

The Redwood Sub

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Neil Erickson NeilEr

Following!

Thanks Peter. This is a terrific idea.

Neil Erickson, Hawai’i 

My Blogs

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dark2star

Cool!

Hi,

when looking at the topic of module transport boxes, my first thought was always how they could be integrated into the legs... You've done an excellent job!

Your concept with the three concentric loops is rather nice. It reminds me of N-Trak, somewhat

I'd be interested in a bit more detail on the road-works scene - it sure sounds nice.

Finally, I like your suggestion of collecting solutions in an open-source manner. I've recently been looking to solutions on very similar things (electronically), however my situation is somewhat different (DC, ...). Still it would help me to compare.

Thanks for the inspiration and have fun!

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filip timmerman

Bravo

Well done and inspiring initiative Peter ! 

Female interest is most appreciated and we should welcome them. A number of women already have a 'name' in the hobby and their contributions are most interesting. And I must say that I feel happy to have my wife supporting my 'love' for trains.... as long as I do the jobs on her wish list - off sure!

Thank you Peter for sharing your Capital Model Railway Club with us .

Greetings to the members and success with the 'happy modeling'!

Filip

(Building the "AnneliesVille" model railway in France - see Blog)

Filip

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pierre52

Open Source Process

To Neil, dark2star and Filip.  Thank you for your encouraging words.  As the module frame is relatively straightforward and components available in most countries I may make a start on that.

However, before I get into the details of any of the items mentioned above, I suspect it will be important to discuss the best way of sharing ideas, designs and build details.

One of the most common ways of sharing Open Source material is through a hosting service such as Microsoft owned GitHub.  To be blunt, I know very little about the way these hosting services work so I am hoping that better informed forum members may be able to make suggestions.

I know that Geoff Bunza uses a variety of ways to promulgate details of his outstanding projects including GitHub, MRH articles and his own website.  While that works, it can be a bit discombobulating for an old fart like me.

I have a view that a better method may be to make a sharing repository here on the MRH forums.   Again, I have no idea if that would work and more importantly if Joe and his team would have the time and energy to set it up.   However, from my perspective the concept of having all of the details available on one site is very attractive.   People already post build logs on here but posting links to things like PCB files, Software programs or Bills of Materials can be a little more challenging.

If you have any thoughts on this please post them.

Peter

The Redwood Sub

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andy ambrose

Wow. And more Wow!  I love

Wow. And more Wow!  I love your single PCB module per baseboard that does everything! I could fill this page with superlatives. Our Modules, have loads of different modules beneath them. Your electronics guy is a Wizard.  Are the PCBs for this going to be supplied as part of your Open Source. Ie. Can we buy them either as kits or pre-made?

Brilliant layout, and that's precisely what is needed to bring life to our 'ageing' hobby.  Switching operations are fine in the Clubhouse or at home, but they tend not to be popular at Exhibitions. If a Club wants new younger members, more of us need to do exactly what you are doing.

Well done...

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pierre52

Limits of Open Source

Andy thanks for your kind words and you have neatly opened the tin that has  "Worms" on the label.

The question is: How far does Open Source go?

I have previously had a similar discussion on this subject with Geoff Bunza and I am inclined to follow his sage advice which in a nutshell was - " If you wish to avoid a pile of pain, do not attempt to commoditise  your designs.  but by all means make the designs and the methods to make them freely available".

In other words we can make the PCB design files freely available such that anyone can send it to a PCB fabricator and have it made.  We can also make up a Bill of Materials for the components and provide world-wide source links.  Additionally, we can publish the Arduino and JMRI scripts that make it all work (NB any such scripts would require modification to suit individual circumstances).  On top of that we can create some instructional videos and/or PDFs to cover the process.

What we don't want to do is become a seller of RTR or kits.

I would suggest that many  model railroaders are a resourceful bunch and a have a wide range of skills.  If you can build a layout then (With the right instructions) you certainly have the skills to solder a bunch of components onto a PCB.   However, nothing would prevent someone from manufacturing and selling the boards.   Nick of Decoder Buddy fame is an example that immediately springs to mind.

One of the interesting developments that is occurring  in the PCB manufacturing industry right now is an option to get the manufacturer to populate the PCBs with surface mount components.  We have done this with our second ancillary board

DecoderS.jpg 

This board has an Arduino Nano and a bunch of other SMD components supplied and installed by the PCB  manufacturer.  We still had to supply and install all of the through hole components such as Pin headers and external connectors.  This service is somewhat limited at the moment and the list of components available can change on a daily basis.  However, I am picking that it won't be long before PCB manufacturers will have the ability to supply fully populated boards.

 

I

Peter

The Redwood Sub

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pierre52

Another question

Another thing that falls out of the can is the question of hosting.  I raised this a few posts up. 

Since then I have emailed the MRH  team with a suggestion that this website might be the ideal venue for hosting such material.  This could be done along the lines of Bill Brillinger's Track Plan Database, That database can be found in the "Goodies" menu on this website.

I have yet to receive a response to that email but in the meantime, if anyone has any bright ideas for hosting, I would love to hear them.

 

Peter

The Redwood Sub

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joef

Permanent hosting

We're happy to "host" material that's of interest to our readers. However, we're starting to get to a place where we need these "hosted goodies" to have their own page with links to the relevant threads. Just explain how you see the dedicated thread working and we can certainly make it more official.

Joe Fugate​
Publisher, Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine

[siskiyouBtn]

Read my blog

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pierre52

Joe thank you for your

Joe thank you for your positive response.  I make no claim to have a finished solution, nor how one might be achieved.  I am no expert in web hosted data bases but here is the sort of thing I am imagining:

1.  A new option is created in the right hand column: "Make an OS Project"

3. Clicking the Make an OS Project option would be a bit like creating a blog and would be shown in the recent posts  list as a "Project"

4.  The project listing should also be accessible under the Goodies menu as a searchable index/database.

5.  The creator of a Project should be able to upload the following formats: Gerber files(PCB design); Arduino IDE files; JMRI xtml files; and PDFs.  Those files should be listed in the project database and be available for download.

6.  The Project Post should have a quick link to the database and vice-versa.

I am hopeful that those with more knowledge in this area than me may jump in and make practical suggestions.

 

Peter

The Redwood Sub

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Geoff Bunza geoffb

Comments for Open Source (OS) Projects (OSP)

Hi to All,

I thank Peter and his club for sharing their ideas, efforts, and results -- all really great. I have used Bill Brillinger's Track Plan database too. The same approach cannot be used here. In fact, OSP needs far more than that. Please bear with me for a moment.

Go back and take a look at the main board that Peter displayed. From Peter's description and a reasonable knowledge of most every component on the board, one still would not know:
1. How to power the board
2. How to connect the board
3. How to configure the board (if at all)
4. What assumptions were made in using the board
5. What assumptions were made (via the loconet) for control and addressibility
6. What are the know limitations/problems
7. How do I do XXX?
8. How do I report a problem/bug?
9. What is the general strategy in using multiple boards?
10 What is the overall purpose of the board?

So... the level of documentation is at least equivalent to an article, maybe more. That excludes putting OSP's into a simple database. Peter's ideas in his last post are a good start. All the project specific files could be zipped up, dated with revision info and held online. The index for the OSP's would need the last date modified and the revision of the last upload. Each OSP would need the equivalent of an article of documentation set describing usage, construction, programming, setup, configuration, modification, maintenance, etc. -- at least once. The difference between this and a commercial product would be lack of long term committed support. DCC++ has not been directly supported by its author for years -- it still has value to the modeling community. Whether the author has the interest, knowledge, and ability to "support the OSP for long is, literally, in doubt. This is a hobby after all. Providing a starting point for sharing is what this is really all about.

Having the ability to ask questions, make comments, share personal "modifications" is still of great additional value. Each OSP as a posted "OSP Topic" is a very good form, in my opinion. But your mileage may vary from OSP to OSP. This should not detract from the overall value of the OSP's taken as a whole.

Some further thought from MRH needs to be considered. Projects working with high voltage or 120 VAC (mains to the rest of the world) might need to be excluded for liability reasons, as well as disclaimers for MRH and the authors. Sorry to bring this up at all.

MRH is now considered a source for technology leadership in model railroading. I would like to think I play a small part in such. I think organizing contributions like Peter's club cold make woud move the bar up another notch... or two!

Have fun! 
Best regards,
Geoff Bunza

Geoff Bunza's Blog Index: https://mrhmag.com/blog/geoff-bunza
More Scale Model Animation videos at: https://www.youtube.com/user/DrGeoffB
Home page: http://www.scalemodelanimation.com

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pierre52

Thanks Geoff

That is a most useful contribution and I agree entirely with all of your points. 

I suspect there was a lack of clarity in what I was suggesting so let me endeavor to amplify.

There should be two parts to any of these OS Projects.  

1.) The Project "Post/Article": This should be considered as a detailed description of the project, how it was put together and all of the sort of information that Geoff highlighted in 1-10 of his post above.   It also then becomes the forum discussion venue where other forum users seek clarity on various parts or add their own suggestions to improve the project.  I would suggest that one of Geoff's own SMA series of blogs form the perfect examples of this.

2. The Project Database.  This is simply a listing of the various projects.  Each listing would contain a brief description of the project, a link back to the "Project Post", and a repository for all of the various Project Files.

Noting that this an entirely voluntary contribution by the OP, there should be no unrealistic expectations of the OP's ability to update files, answer questions or any other request that creates a significant workload for the OP.

The contribution that Geoff has made and continues to make with respect to his thirty plus SMA projects is extraordinary.  He has set a bar that is beyond us other mortals.

The aim here is to enhance the enjoyment of the hobby for everyone by sharing some of the marvellous developments made by forum members. The Projects certainly won't be to everyone's taste or abilities but if one other person benefits then that should be regarded as a win.

 

Peter

The Redwood Sub

Reply 0
Will_Annand

Interesting

This sounds like an interesting project, I will be following it for sure.

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John P

Hosting

Another idea for hosting would be a board on the Groups.IO system, which has been the refuge for a lot of former Yahoo groups, since Yahoo no longer wants to offer that service. It provides a discussion forum and file and photo space. I'm on a couple of groups there, but I'm not an expert on how it functions!

p.s. I had the pleasure of visiting New Zealand in February, along with three hiking buddies (tramping, as you say). I tried to persuade them that the Remutaka Rail Trail would be a good place to visit, but the chief planner wasn't interested. I'll do it next time.

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David Husman dave1905

Format

I would think that you would need an article that would contain the article description and documentation.  It might have attachments or links associated with it.  In addition there would be a series of one or more topics that would contain the discussion.  You want the documentation separate from the development.

Dave Husman

Visit my website :  https://wnbranch.com/

Blog index:  Dave Husman Blog Index

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pierre52

Time to kick this off

At this stage I still don't have any viable options for hosting storage of things such as Gerber files.  No doubt someone will chip in with a suitable framework at some stage.

 

In the meantime I will kick this off with a description of how we designed and built our module frames.  I will probably follow that up with a description of our Road Works scene and include a section on using cheap stepper motors.

For the moment, I plan to shamelessly steal  Geoff Bunza's SMA  series idea and simply devote a separate Blog to each topic.  Thus the naming pro-forma will be OSMRI followed by a sequential number.  So the blog for the Frames will read "OSMRI 1 Module Frames"

Peter

The Redwood Sub

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joef

We're ruminating on how to best accommodate this

We're ruminating on how to best accommodate this. It's a little tricky using this very old Drupal version. How would you feel about a sub-domain? Like https://open.mrhmag.com... ?? Then we could stand up your own separate little space using newer tech with forum, file repository, and so on. There's also the MRH Wiki, which has been on the back burner. Maybe putting an active new section like this out there would give the wiki effort a shot in the arm? The wiki has a discussion area and file storage space.

Joe Fugate​
Publisher, Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine

[siskiyouBtn]

Read my blog

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pierre52

Thanks Joe

I am a complete noob when it comes to things like web sites and file repositrys but what you are suggesting certainly seems to fit the bill.

By listing the main discussion post in the forum area and being able to post links to a file repositry should work well.  So long as we can upload files and provide links to them, it should work.

Peter

The Redwood Sub

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