Empties in Loads out

How about doing it as an empties in loads out set up on your coal mine? The late master track planner John Armstrong liked to set up that type of operation on layouts to add more operation possibilities. What you do is pair your coal mine with a power plant, or a coal breaker plant or something like that. You would have two hidden tracks between your coal mine and the power plant, and at the coal mine you would shove the empties into one of the hidden tracks, and then pull the loads out of the other hidden track.

The loaded cars then have to navigate the entire layout to reach the power plant where they would be shoved through the power plant back into the hidden track, and the empties would be pulled from the other hidden track to make the the return trip back to the coal mine. It definitely adds fun to the operation, and gives the illusion of actually loading cars at the coal mine and unloading them at the power plant.

Modern coal

Modern coal mines, in the west at least, are flood loaded on loops, not much switching.  I can think of one that quit in the early 2000s that was spot coal and might work for you.  It and its operations are described on Al Krug's site and has one of my favorite railroad stories to go with it;

http://krugtales.50megs.com/rrpictale/kiewit/kiewit.htm

Paul

ARM

Western Coal

Hi Prof:

Western it is, but I can certainly learn from the east, THANKS!

TIM

Switching

There really isn't any switching at a modern coal mine.

All the switching occurs many miles away at a yard where the railroad will work empty coal trains.  They fill the empties to size, cut out cars needing to go to the shop, replace cars set out bad order, and "purify" the trains (cutting out cars coming off lease or other railroad cars).

Edna Mine

This is one I was considering at one time,...but don't have room for it now.

Interesting to note that the

Interesting to note that the Edna Mine is the supposed prototype for the Walther's New River mining Company which, for the most part, is used in different variations on many Appalachian coal mining layouts. I'm no prototype expert but I believe a modern day western coal layout is better served by Flood Loaders and unit trains full of rotary dump cars. At least that was still the case 10 to 15 years ago back in my N-scale days.

Pennsyltucky collieries

Collieries and Coal Breakers

my understanding is that track at a colliery were on a slight grade.  Empties were pushed past the point where there were filled and as they were filled, brakes were released allowing the next empty to be positioned, moving the string of cars toward the mainline.

True in the hills

Building the loading tracks on a slight grade and rolling empties down to the loader and then the loads to the outbound track(s) is quite common where possible.  That's exactly what they did at Edna Mine in Oak Creek, Colorado.  Doesn't work too well in central Illinois though.....

The loadout tipple at Edna was replaced with a flood loader silo until the mine itself played out and was closed.

One function of tipples was to sort coal by size.  Almost all modern mines, especially out west, only ship one size of coal, either "steam" for power plants or "met" (metallurgical) for steel mills or export.  The flood loading silos are built on loops where possible so no switching is required at the mine.

Scott Chatfield

Refined Ideas

HI Folks

Ive been working on refining my ideas for the coal mine scene on my railroad, I looked really hard at a loads in empties out situation, but my original intent was to do something like the way that the Virginian that was published in Model Railroader.  The idea is that coal is mined, and picked up, and brought to a marshaling yard, and then shipped out to the power plant.  I think the plan is going to be similar to the edna mine

TIM

Virginian

If you'd like another take on the Virginian plan, go to Byron Henderson's site here https://www.layoutvision.com/why-waste-the-space-on-a-4x8.Also sometime in the last few years, MR had a plan for an N-scale modern coal unit train layout using Kato Unitrack.

Real transportation ?

Yes we need loaded and empties; so often the mine is against a backdrop and a track dissappear in the backdrop to hide a new loaded train or an empty one to come.

Yes it work well and numerous well know layouts have used this trick.

I never liked this idea and in fact, my mines are really loading hoppers and the new coming trains are really empties.

Trouble comes for lot of us how to unlaod these  loaded cars ?

I model in N scale and I have scratch some car unloaders including an unfinished high lift coal dumper.

This give alot of work for operations and Schedule need to be tight.

My Hoppers are unmodified 33' hoppers ( I model in the 40's)

Mines and tipples are loaded with a volcanic black sand which simulate perfectly coal; I have two grade of coal , small clumps and big ones; they comes from the same sand, but I just make a pass in a mesh strainer  to have fine and "big "grades"; this sand comes from IKEA and he is used as a decorative sand for plants; they sold it  in like plastic bottle.

One great attest of this sand which I beleive comes from Iceland, is his very light weight.

I have three rotary coal dumper working on the layout but also hidden one in small factory and I plan to hide one in a Walthers coal tower; they are just a balance which rotate at 180° with a spring clamp.

The sand go in a small container Under the layout.

Just a suggestion

Fast coal loader

Hi Tim,

also have a look at  https://forum.mrhmag.com/magazine-feedback-was-ezines-891776  and some of the comments might be helpful,

First Draft of Track Plan

 Ok, so I broke out the planning software and tried to get some ideas in line for the coal mine area.  Attached below is what I came up with -- Id appreciate some critiques -- this is going to be modeled in N scale.  Each grid square is 1 foot, what is not depicted is the level change which is on the grid line to the left of the main, To the right will be scenery, rocks, cliffs etc as well as the entry to the mine, and conveyors and such.

Please let me know how I can improve this for appearance and operation both

THanks

TIM

Interesting to note that the

Loaders and the Edna Mine

Hi Guys:

jimfitch, ya thats something like what I am planning to do -- I have to modify a little bit to get more room on the tripple tracks, and I may add a single track flood loader as well, we'll see how things fit

TIM

Updated Plan based on Edna Mine

Hi Folks:

After visiting a club today that has a mine scene, I came home and started drawing, and came up with the following plan for the coal mine area.  A couple notes about this area .  The tipple has outputs of 2 sizes of coal, Stoker coal for electrical power and metallurgic coal for steel production.  Loads will generally be made of one or the other, so one or the other loading track will be used.  This will allow cars to flow smoothly down from the top end of the pic in the empty storage tracks, under the loader, and on down to the loads storage yard.  Im not going to try to set the grade and all the associated problems, I'll have a switch engine move them around as needed.

I looked again at doing a loads in empties out type scene, but it really doesnt fit with the operational story, so I decided not to do it.

TIM

I'm all for wide access

I'm all for wide access aisles but if you widened out the top of the plan left side benchwork some you could give a more generous radius to that turnback curve. I'm assuming one foot squares. The larger radius the better within practical limits and space consideration.

Wide Aisles

HI Michael:
 

In this particular case, the room is also my bedroom, and I need the extra room for getting dressed etc, I sleep under the portion of the layout at the bottom of the picture, my work bench is under the right hand side, and dressers are under the portion at the top of the pic.  The door is upper left, and the closet along the rest of the left wall. I live with my parents and we have a smallish house

TIM