Adding sound...

Just be warned, once you get into the tsunami's, there is no going back...you are going to love them...I have been there and I am still there, lol.

I don't know if you have it already, but with JMRI and a Digitraxx PR3 (this is how I program my Tsu's) the TSU's are even more fun. Specially when you get to play with the equaliser and the reverb settings and on the TSU steam decoders the settings are endless, like I said , you will love them.

In for a penny, in for a pound

Being the frugal soul that I am, I'd much prefer a forty dollar decoder or for that matter a twenty dollar one but I am also a realist. The 165 series decoders from Digitrax were very appealing to me especially the idea of first installing the motion decoder (at just $20 apiece) and then gradually plug in the soundbugs.  All of this of course would be easier said than done.  Cost wise it would be $60 per locomotive verses $80 for the Tsunamis.

In that Tsunamis receive near universal praise everywhere and the Digitrax gets so so reviews, it seems prudent to spend the extra twenty dollars.

By the way, I came across this neat site with a comprehensive what works where listing and an excellent tutorial on speakers

If you run some locomotives in consists

like A-B-B-A sets of F-units or E-units or Pa's, you can save by putting sound in some units and leaving it out of others.  Perhaps putting sound in the B-units and leaving it out of the A's

So far the plans include

So far the plans include three AB sets. I have a P2K PA/PB for the Daylight.  The PB is a dummy so I think that I can put a couple of speakers in it. My two Genesis F3 sets have powered B units and I am considering stripping out the motors and gearing to do the same.  My freights top out at 12 cars plus a caboose, and my passenger trains at six.  My maximum grade is 2.25% (approximately) and one loco can pull such trains easily.

To be clear, my plan is to mount the decoder in the powered A unit and mount the speakers in the dummy B unit. Unless there is a compelling reason not to go this route.

Oops! On my last post I forgot to list the neat site.  Here goes: alcomodels.blogspot.com/

Sound in A-B-B-A sets

As I have several A-B-B-A sets of F Units (F-3's and FA/B's) that I want to have in A-B-B-A sets, I have been debating whether it is worth the investment to have multiple sound decoders in them, or if one would do.  For those who were able to actually listen to these units, could you tell there was more than one prime mover or did they each have a distinctive sound.  I am attempting to weight the cost vs benefit of having mulitple sound units in a set.  If the actual prototype units did have them where you could tell there was more than one prime mover (from similar engines, obviously if it was an Alco and EMD units together they would sound differently) that would tip the scale towards having the mulitple sound units, on the other hand, if they all sounded like one unit, then having the one unit, with perhaps multiple speakers, would make a more wise choice.

Ken L.

multiple sound sources

"SoundTraxx DCC Mobile

"SoundTraxx DCC Mobile Decoders
These decoders provide high performance operation and Hyperlight lighting effects in a variety of easy to use formats. They are designed to be compatible with all Tsunami® Digital Sound Decoders, making a simple task for customers who wish to speed-match their Tsunami sound decoders to a motor decoder. "

Quoting the SoundTraxx website.  Maybe these will work for those who need to consist sound decoder equipped locos with non-sound equipped ones.

QSI Sound Decoders

Sound being in the ear of the listener, I trying to establish a base line in my sound adventures.  True that the two Tsunami decoders from Litchfield are now in my possession but so far they haven't made their way from the shelf to inside the locos.  In the mean time I bought from a guy on Ebay an Athearn Genesis 482 mountain with a factory installed Tsunami because by my calculations it was a $75 more than the cost of buying the decoder and installing it in the Spectrum Union Pacific Mountain which I would have to add a vandy tender too so I'll just sell of the Spectrum (take a loss oh well).

Following the same line of thought I am looking to find some motive power to pull some heavy weight Western Pacific passenger cars.  I have a lovely P2K GP9, a Stewart FT set and a Bachmann Spectrum 280 but none of them really seem right for the task.  So I am looking at an Intermountain FP7 that comes with a QSI sound system preinstalled.  And I'm wondering how you guys out there who have locos with QSI systems feel about them.

Sound Decoders

Digitrax is the mainstay for my sound fleet.  I have added a sound bug to two 165 series decoders and they work and sound fine.

I have an Athearn A/B set that I added a DH123 to the motored A unit and a Digitrax sound only decoder to the B unit.  Sounds fine.

I do have two DSD Tsunami sound decoders that I picked up cheep, but have yet to install them in anything.

I also have an Atlas MP15 which came with the QSI decoder installed.  It works and sounds great, and programs fine with Decoder Pro/Digitrax MS100 + Power Pax.

I will probably stay with Digitrax as I have a large fleet of Athearn SD40-2 that need sound.  I am not adding sound to the entire fleet, but adding one or two sound locomotives to a consist.

Athearn Genesis 482

The Mountain arrived and I ran it around the layout a few times in DC.  Kinda strange, the whistle blew almost continously and tended to drown out the chuffing.  The next day I hooked up my old MRC Prodigy system ( I had put it away when I demolished my previous layout and preferred DC for track testing the new one). The mountain performed admirably - so much fun to blow the whistle and I gradually retuned my ears to listen to the chuffing instead of the sound of the metal freight car wheels rumbling along the track.  It's probably just my imagination but the loco and another with DCC (an Athearn Genesis F7 with a Digitrax non-sound decoder) seemed to learn the layout and got very smooth in operation.  A big hit  with the five year old and seven year old, though they had to tell me that it's a lot more fun running the sound equipped loco and when am I going to get the horn working in the diesel.

Maybe some day I'll have a crew of adult operators.

Using Two Diesels and one

Using Two Diesels and one Decoder plus a speaker in the A Powered Engine & in the B unpowered engine just use a second speaker for sound only comming fron the A unit decoder.

Since many B units are unpowered, then running 2 small wires from the first speaker in the A engine to the second speaker in the non powered B unit with a micro plug just out of view under the A unit so when you unplug the B engine the A Engine will not have any loose wires following behind.

I have seen a number of people putting two speakers in a single engine using Tsunami sound Decoders on other web forums like the Yahoo groups so, Two speakers hooked up to one decoder doesn't seem to be a problem. Running a couple wires to a second engine should power a second speaker and won't be that much of a problem.

Then later when you can afford the second sound decoder your speaker will already be mounted you will just need the sound decoder for the B engine.

It sounds like it would work. I don't run enough Diesels to test this Idea because 99.9% of my engines are Steam with their own sound decoder in each. I thought I would toss the Idea out there for you that do run diesels in consists may want to try this. If someone knows of a actual reason to not do this please tapp in and explain how or why this wont work.

Dan

Adding sound...

Although this comment does not concern sound I feel compelled to congratulate you on the excellent pics quality. Having been a commercial/industrial photographer for some years, I cannot but say that the pics you shared are few and far between that I have seen displayed that are of your calibre. Keep them coming 'cos they are an inspiration to me and I believe to countless others.

It's the Technology

Thanks for the flattering words but it's really the technology.  I use a simpe digital camera - my wife's Nikon Coolpix L3 set at it's museum setting on a tripod. The lighting is just the normal room lighting - a mix of compact florescents and some halogen minifloods set in  four inch recessed cans.  There is also some natural light coming in through a window.  I edit the photos  on a Mac in a program called iPhoto.  Mainly I crop them, lighten them and sharpen them.  Three clicks of a mouse, takes all of two minutes.  If I can do it anyone can.

As an alternative I have been

As an alternative I have been working on a poor mans SurroundTraxx for my n-scale layout.  I have not been impressed with the sound quality in n-scale, so there are few choices.  I have been ex[perimenting with two Tsu's and am pleased with the results.  This does not follow the train, but it does make for good sound. 

Here is a picture of the board in its current state.  It has the ability to handle 8 decoders, 4 satelite speakers and 4 soundsscape speakers.... still working on the soundscape section.

Gizmology 101

Wow! Gotta admire the determination to make it happen. Do you consist the decoder your locomotive with the decoder in the panel?

 Submitted by Bindlestiff on

Yep, That is the plan.  So far it seems to be working fine.  I need to explore how to make the decoder not the top engine in the consist and still be able to easily play the horn and other sound functions easily.  Still expmloring that part.

Stumped

Today I began my first attempt at installing a Tsunami TSU-AT1000 in an Athearn Genesis F3A.  You think that it would be easy.  The board snaps in, the wires are held on with little plastic clips.  The only soldering is the leads to the speaker.

Because the F3A has more than enough power to pull it’s consist without the assist of a powered B unit, I decided to strip out the motor and gears from the F3B and use the space to install a larger speaker.  It was also neccessary to cut down the frame some what to make room for the planned OSI high base speaker.  So I clamped up the frame and sawed away with a hack saw.  I then cleaned up my cuts with a belt sander and a little filing. So far so good. 

I then reinstalled the trucks and soldered on extended leads to the pickup wires.  I tacked the speaker in with hot glue and soldered on it’s leads.  I then passed the four wires (+&- for the speakers and left and right for the pickups) through a length of heat shrink tubing and went to work on the A unit.

I removed the Athearn board and clipped in the TSU-AT1000.  I soldered on the power leads, and the speaker leads and clipped on the motor leads.  I left the lights off as I was anxious to see if it worked. I  put both units on my programming track, set my Prodigy system to program loco number, held down the button for five seconds, a decoder led blinked red and I thought I was done.  I then switched the Prodigy to run and two LED’s on it began to flash indicating an overload.  I tried it again and same thing blinking. No smoke though.

I checked and rechecked my connections for a crossed wire or some bridging solder but could find nothing.  So I removed the decoder and installed a Digitrax DH163 that I had on hand.  The power pickup and motor connections were made the same.  The only difference being that there is no speaker.  I put in on the program track, pressed the button, switched to run, turned the speed control and it worked perfectly.

So what did I miss with the Tsunami install?  What did I do wrong?  I’m stumped.

Pickups....

I suspect you crossed the pickups from the B unit to the A unit somehow.

Cost effective speaker enclosures

That's what I thought too.  But then I pulled the decoder out and installed a digitrax motion only decoder and it worked just fine. After the Tsunami was out I noticed that one on the wires to the capacitor had broken off the board so I resoldered it.  I realy don't know if it was broken before, during or after the removal the decoder.  Another possibility, though I don't no why it should matter is that the motor leads (M+ & M-) were reversed. Maybe I'll try again tomorrow. As well I didn't start at the default address 3 but wanted to use another.

In the meantime. I've been having better luck with installing a TSU-BW1000 ALCO 251 (V 16) in a P2K Daylight PA/PB set.  This time the B unit was already a dummy which should have made things easier.  However I needed to saw, grind, sand and file a considerable amount of metal from one of the PA weights to make room for the decoder.  Fortunately the weights are held on by screws and easy to remove. I then made a mounting platform for the decoder out of styrene which I screwed to the modified weight. The TSU-BW1000 has two holes in the board which seem to be for screws so I was able to use these to firmly mount the board.

With the various wires attached with the little plastic clips (including the leads to the high bass speaker),  It was moment of truth time. I set it on the program track, the address set to 3, pressed program.  The LED lit, the loco moved a little - very hopeful.  I switched to run and it ran.  Control was erratic and the sound was very disapointing (the speaker just sitting unmounted.) The loco shut down over frogs etc.

I checked the wheels for crud, none to speak of and looked at the transfer from wheels to pickups.  Maybe not the best on the P2K PA, the half axles ride in dimples on a metal piece that fits behind the truck side frames.  Luckily the side frames on the B unit also used these metal pieces.  So the next day I added pickup wires to the B unit trucks and connected these to the decoder.

As well I needed to do something about the weak sound so I searched around on the web and found alot of complaints but not a lot of solutions.  Interestingly there is a very good discussion of the importance of a speaker enclosure at the Litchfield website.  So I figured that I better install one in the PB and evaluate any difference before getting too carried away.

I've seen pictures of enclosures made from carboard tubes, pill bottles  bottle caps, etc. They are also available from the suppliers. However they do seem simple enough to make so I looked around for a pill bottle of the right circumference but no luck.

For a number of years I have been saving the plastic cores from ahesive tape.  This is because I saw a little piece by Dave Frary about making storage tanks from them.  I have never got around to this project - probably never wll as I already  have all the storage tanks that I need for the layout. But I just  don't like to part with things that I have been saving for so long. I wondered if a  wider core would work.

It turns out though that the inner diameter of the tape cores is very close to the size of the  1.06" High Bass speaker. The sides of the outer core needed to be sawed off for it to fit in the loco.  As well I notched both inner and outer rings to allow the speaker wires to pass out of the enclosure.   I then glued a rectangular plate of sheet sytrene to the bottom and used silicone to attach the assembly to the locomotive frame. I also used silicone to seal the speaker to the enclosure.

Moment of truth take two. With another twelve wheels picking up power and the speaker securely mounted in a sealed enclosure, the loco now glides along and the sound that was almost to faint to hear is now almost too loud. I wouldn't have thought that the enclosure would make such a difference.

+ +

Ah but it makes all the difference in the world as you have learned.

Put the bare speaker on the desk, wire the decoder to it and try the sound, awful. It vibrates, has no volume.  Put it in any enclosure where the sound wave from the front of speaker does not come on contact with the rear sound  wave too soone and the sound changes.  Put the speaker in something very stiff walled and the sound changes again.  Vary the size of the enclosure, it changes again.  The stiffer the baffle, the better the sound.

Marc

Enclosures are huge...

Enclosing, (baffling) a speaker properly, is crucial to getting good sound from the speaker.  Sound waves emitted at the rear of the cone cancel sound waves being emitted at the front of the cone, particularly low frequency bass sounds.  Enclosures or baffles restrict the movement of sound waves to vastly improve the efficiency of the speaker. As Marc mentions, the quality of the baffling also effects the sound produced.  Loudspeakers often contain insulation to dampen some of the reflective qualities of the enclosure.  It's like the way soft surfaces affect the acoustics of concert halls.

  Happy New Year to one and

Happy New Year to one and all.  At this point in time I have three and a half functioning sound equipped locomotives.  My best results so far have been with AB units.  I started with a P2K PAPB using the dummy B unit for additional pickups and as a place for the speaker. This proved to work very well so  I stripped out the motor and gears from an Athearn Genesis F3B  and did the same. The hack job of  easing passage for the electrical connections proves that I'm not a purist but in due course it will all be hidden by diaphrams.  The draw bar came from some Walthers well cars.  At any rate I have  another very smooth operator.

It still confounds me why the decoder didn't work the first time in my F units. I abandoned the first decoder and found success with a second one.  Emboldened I attempted to install the non-functioning one in another F unit pair and got the same frustrating results. I then tried my third  TSU100AT  and that too failed.

The decoders and the F units have gone back to Soundtraxx for trouble shooting and I am confident that they will make it right.

I'm kind of half satisfied with my installation of a Medium Steam Tsunami in a Genesis Mikado.  The hook-up was easy.  Remove the harness from the decoder and plug on the Athearn one. And while there is enough room in the tender for the decoder and the speaker I'm still working out how to mount them effectively.  As well the sound cuts in and out and the loco hesitates and stalls when crossing unpowered frogs.  This also confuses me.  It didn't do this on straight DC.  Maybe this problem will be solved when I add power pickups to the tender.

In the meantime my Athearn Mountain just cruises and creeps through it all with nary a flutter.

Our experience in the modular club is that sound cuts out

and starts over anytime a locomotive stalls over a dead connection ro even if the flywheels cause it to manage to coast over the dead spot.  Your Mikado has a short pick up length with just the locomotive drivers picking up power.  Putting pick ups on the tender wheels should solve your problem.  In our latest club module standards, dead frogs are not allowed because of problems with small locomotives.