Black Paint Fade

Try this on a scrap piece of plastic: paint it black, when dry, spay dull coat over the paint. When dry, use a wash of isopropyl  alcohol over the dull coat.    Joe

Deja vu

https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/painting-realistic-black-diesels-12212892

The “fade then patch” or “patch then fade” could be determined by the proto you are following , got one?

Seconded

I second what Joe said about a paint fade. it's an interesting effect. Just be careful when you actually try the loco shell.

So True about fade.

Wow. I feel better now. I did not know this is done on purpose.  I had some nice rolling stock with a couple coats of Dullcoat and some colored pastels. When I added my "wash" of water, India Ink and alcohol I was shocked at the fade and thought I had ruined everything.  I found that anther coat of Dullcoat moderates this effect if gone too far. 

I have not dared try a loco shell yet but Dullcoat the heck out them.    

I discovered it by accident

I discovered it by accident as well, many years ago, but yes it's a thing.

Reference Photos

The best photos I could find were these Alco's (the last one is an RS11) for the fading that I'd like to emulate. 

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2088779

http://conrailphotos.thecrhs.org/Images/CR-2025

conrailphotos.thecrhs.org/Images/CR-6947-Rochester-NY-4291978

Fade and patching

I know the dullcote and alcohol technique has its place, but when trying to replicate the look of a specific prototype, I'm not as much of a fan of it since, at least in my experience, the results can be unpredictable.

Personally, I really like PanPastels (applied with makeup brushes and NOT the foam applicators that come with them) for fading.  You can go anywhere from very subtle to extreme with them, with great control over different parts of the model getting different effects.  I show several black tank cars with varying fade in my PanPastels post at  https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/iaiss-west-end-weathering-fun-with-panpastels-12213175 , but here's a more extreme example:

SRIX 20516 (crudely-remarked Athearn RTR 20,600g), with oil streaks added using artist's oils.

Both the SRIX car and the GATX tank to which it's coupled started out in plain black factory paint.  I think your Alco would weather beautifully using PanPastels

As for fading lettering, heralds, etc., there are a couple options I like.  When fading factory lettering, my favorite method is usually a pencil eraser.  On most factory jobs, it can take a few minutes before you start to see a change, so you can easily remove as much or as little as you'd like.  I've noticed that on at least one Walthers car ( TFM 81064 that started life as a factory-painted NdeM model), though, lettering started to come off after just a few swipes, so be careful until you're confident in how the lettering on a particular model will react.  Here are proto and model pics of that car:

2010 prototype pic by Chris Palmieri from http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1993410 :

A-side of model

B-side

Sometimes, though, it's necessary to fade decals, and in those cases I prefer doing a wash over them.  With the IAIS 250, I blended the standard IAIS yellow-on-red stripes into the custom red-on-gray decal using thinned Floquil paints dabbed on with a small sponge:

October 2005 prototype photo:

On UP GP38-2 503, I used PanPastels to fade the overall body color, but used an acrylic wash to fade individual letters:

September 14, 2007 Joe Rogers photo from http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=907942 :

Prototype pic by Paul Rome on November 15, 2007, from  http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3205958 :

On the conductor's side, the "5" is not only higher than the "03", but tilted a bit to the left.  

More details on the UP 503 can be found at https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/iaiss-west-end-faded-up-glory-12201722 .

Regarding your question about whether patching or fading should come first, I think it depends on the look you're after and the techniques you use.  If you have specific thoughts about the look you're after for your Alco, I'd be happy to assist if I can.

Just Black + Weathering

On my Penn Central locomotives I paint them a gloss black (for ease of decaling). After decal application I spray the sides with a 3-part Dullcote/1-part Glosscote. I spray the top surfaces with Dullcote. I then weather the locomotive with very thin Railroad Tie Brown and a 50/50 mix of RR Tie Brown/Grimy Black.  I also apply a thin coat of Aged Concrete to represent sand from sanding applications...mainly on the trucks and frame. I model the ~1973 so the PC engines are not as dirty or faded as they were towards the end of PC or beginning of Conrail.  

Tom Haag

Beautiful models Tom.  I always enjoy seeing your work.

Nice work guys

Both Joe and Tom. I need to get around to weathering my steam locos and I have a black steel viaduct that needs some weathering work so I'll keep these ideas in mind. I agree the dullcote/alcohol effect is unpredictable. My accidental discovery of it years ago almost ruined an N -scale loco. It's a tool but one I use sparingly.

Dullcote/alcohol

Another nice thing about the Dullcote/alcohol technique is that, if you don’t like the outcome, it can be completely undone by simply re-spraying with Dullcote. 

A million thanks...

WOW...!!!

Thanks for the ideas, I hadn't even considered using my Pan Pastels to do the fade. I really appreciate you taking time to reply Joe. And Tom, LOVE the models, excellent work... my very first experience was watching PC trains with my Dad down at Goodman St Yard in Rochester, NY... I've always been a big PC fan... 

hopefully I can find some time this week to try this out and post the results here on my blog @ MRH

Thanks again everyone...!

More here from a couple months ago

https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/painting-realistic-black-diesels-12212892

Joe A, your fading techniques

look awesome, thank you for sharing. After 30 years of custom painting and always having an airbrush at my disposal I find myself in a condo and researching techniques that do not require the use of an airbrush. I have used PanPastels before but never thought about them for an overall fade. I will be trying that very soon.

Thank you

Michael, Ben, and Steven, thanks very much for your encouragement.  I've really enjoyed using PanPastels.  I've never really liked using my airbrush for some reason - maybe the noise of the compressor?  Just seems to go against the relaxing atmosphere I strive for with hobby time.

Really nice work guys

I need to work on my weathering skills. I used my airbrush several times for painting locomotives and achieved decent results. I feel like setting up and cleaning up the airbrush is a major chore. I also don’t have a proper place to use it. So each time I use it the process feels like work. 

PanPastels sealed?

Thanks for the excellent suggestions on using PanPastels.  I have used chalks but was disapointed my work disapeared when I sealed with Dullcoat. Your ideas show that streaking and irregularities really work out wonderfully. Do you do a final seal with Dullcoat?

Weathering Videos

Like I had said in an earlier post, I can't believe I hadn't thought of using Pan Pastels to do the paint fade. You can use dullcoat after. Mike Confalone made these two videos and I cannot stress how highly I would recommend them... worth every penny, Mike does an EXCELLENT job on the videos weathering cars and locomotives.

https://store.mrhmag.com/store/p118/dwnld/weather-like-pro-v1.html

https://store.mrhmag.com/store/p128/dwnld/weather-like-pro-v2.html

I've done several cars with a ton more to do. These photos were handy to show a before and after. On a side note I used Pan Pastels to weather a bridge in my recent blog post and in earlier post the locomotive was done with them as well.

Before:

After:

Dullcote

Thanks very much Brodie.  Dullcote will mute PanPastels also (though not as much as it mutes chalks), so I only use it before applying them.

@Ben

Nice job weathering that covered hopper!  BTW, I really like the weathered appearance of your track, too!  And you are spot-on with your Mike Confalone video recommendations on Trainmasters TV.  Just his weathering videos made the TMTV subscription worth it.

I choose to put a dull finish over my Pan Pastel weathered cars and structures, because I do handle them, especially the cars.  So if the finish disappears somewhat, I just add more PP until I end up with the degree of weathering I want.  

I use Rustoleum's clear "Dead Flat" spray, which works just like Dullcoat and is way, way cheaper.  

Al Carter

Pan Pastels

Hey Joe (@IAISfan), you were right the Pan Pastels were great for fading and the eraser trick to fade out the lettering. This is just a real quick job for now, I'll go back later and pull Mike's weathering video out and give this unit a proper "Alco" weathering. I was going to do this as a temporary thing until I could do a full repaint but now looking at it this unit may just stay this way. Just need to add those Cal Scale details and do some patchwork for a roadnumber and initials. 

Mr. Haag, I have a soft spot in my heart for Penn Central, I looked through your posts but didn't see any pictures of your work. Care to share some URL links and/or photos... 

Ben

Really nice work Ben!  1980 was a tough time for railroads, so it'd make total sense for the R&S to just do the bare minimum to get that unit in operation.  I doubt there was a lot of extra money laying around in the paint budget back then.

Tom, I like what you have

Tom, I like what you have achieved here. 

I have faded other colour, but not black yet. Glad I came across your post.

I'll soon be trying it on this.

CN vs PC

Dee: I had always thought that the CN and CP for that matter, were rather careful with their equipment. So like I've been saying "don't overdo it".