Saturn / NASA Rocket Program and our trains

CPR Sudbury Division (Waterloo Region Model Railway Club)

Reply 0

peter-f Prolific poster 1,534 posts

peter-f

NASA railroad may have

May have the type of car you refer to... Cape Canaveral has NASA railroad operations, for heavyweight movement from barges to assembly. It's more like a terminal railroad than anything else, but it has its own locomotives.

- regards

Peter

Reply 0

railandsail Prolific poster 8,843 posts

railandsail

Rocket Scene on a Diorama Module

I originally thought this 'space scene' might be in a modular form such that it would appear at various public events,...train shows, mall shows, etc

Quote:

I personally have in mind having 5-6 of these cars feeding into a diorama/module with a Saturn V rocket set to be launched. That rocket should be relatively easy to model, and should be over 5 foot tall in HO scale. That should be quite an eye-opener for both kids and adults….’the old RR transportation system lending a helping hand with the new space transportation system’.

Boys, and men, and rockets, and trains all go together in real life and our fantasies.

Brian

1) First Ideas: Help Designing Dbl-Deck Plan in Dedicated Shed
2) Next Idea: Another Interesting Trackplan to Consider
3) Final Plan: Trans-Continental Connector

Reply 0

David Husman dave1905 MRH Author 9,872 posts

David Husman dave1905

LOX

They probably didn't get shipments of liquid oxygen. It was probably made locally and shipped in by truck.

Dave Husman

Visit my website : https://wnbranch.com/

Blog index: Dave Husman Blog Index

Reply 0

railandsail Prolific poster 8,843 posts

railandsail

Shipped by truck

If I recall properly I think that is what I found. I believe I read that it was produced somewhere south of Orlando, then trucked to the cape. Wish I could remember.

But then I thought it would be exciting to see those diminutive cryo railcars setting in the vinicity of the Saturn rocket

Brian

1) First Ideas: Help Designing Dbl-Deck Plan in Dedicated Shed
2) Next Idea: Another Interesting Trackplan to Consider
3) Final Plan: Trans-Continental Connector

Reply 0

IHB_SD20 New member 21 posts

IHB_SD20

Components

What about the components for the Saturn V? Wouldn't that have been brought in by rail?

Michael Miller

See what's happening here;

https://www.facebook.com/IHBHarborDivision/

Reply 0

Ken Rice Super User 5,938 posts

Ken Rice

Components

Components were brought in by barge. Most (if not all) of the pieces were too large for anything else.

My blogspot blog: http://rices-rails.blogspot.com/
My MRH blog index

Reply 0

railandsail Prolific poster 8,843 posts

railandsail

railandsail wrote:

Just yesterday I was reminded of the current extortionary news coverage of the history of our space program. I've been watching it also.

There was a time when I considered the links that might be made between that space program and our model railroads.

Module Scene with Saturn Rocket

Liquid Qxygen Cars and Space Exploration

Helium Cars and space exploration

https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/helium-operations-12200080

I see where MTH (Mikes Train House) chose not to ignore this NASA theme on some of their freight cars. It does appear as though a lot of them were in O gauge trains, and perhaps not prototypical.

This particular prototype photo caught my attention. it appears as thought that single tank car on the right side of the photo is a cryogenic car very similar to a few of those produced by Broadway Limited models,..

So perhaps I'll paint up a few of those 'undecorated' ones I have in a NASA theme. Might be interesting to kit-bash a few of those 3 cylinder cars as well.

Brian

1) First Ideas: Help Designing Dbl-Deck Plan in Dedicated Shed
2) Next Idea: Another Interesting Trackplan to Consider
3) Final Plan: Trans-Continental Connector

Reply 0

railandsail Prolific poster 8,843 posts

railandsail

https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/9110/how-are-cryogenic-rocket-propellants-delivered-to-the-launch-pad

Quote:

Kennedy Space centre in Florida formerly had its own plant for the manufacture of cryogenic fuels and other liquids. This is now closed as noted earlier. The procurement for cryogenic fuel for NASA is done via the office of procurement at KSC. It was determined that the US has only one supplier cryogenics that can supply the cape with the necessary 30 trucks per day necessary to fuel a launch, and that is Praxair. They supply both oxygen and hydrogen to KSC.

Other NASA sites are also supplied by Praxair, and other contractors.

Vandenberg has an on site cryogenic plant operated by Air Liquide of America, but it is not clear what volume they supply for launches there - its probably classified.

ESA's launch site at Kourou has an on-site cryogenic plant operated by Air Liquide. More information at the Kourou web site.

Baikonur also has an onsite cryogenic plant, mainly because it is hundreds of miles from anywhere! There is also a plant at Plesetsk, and one will be built at Vostochny. Most of the Russian Cryogenic plants are now owned and operated by the Cryogenmash company.

There is an extensive railway system at Baikonur and the fuels are moved from the storage tanks to the launch pad by rail cars. Here are some photos from Baikonur to illustrate that:

Brian

1) First Ideas: Help Designing Dbl-Deck Plan in Dedicated Shed
2) Next Idea: Another Interesting Trackplan to Consider
3) Final Plan: Trans-Continental Connector

Reply 0

railandsail Prolific poster 8,843 posts

railandsail

I don't have a destination for my cryogenic and helium tank cars on my new layout, .....BUT I certainly will have generation facilities....ha..ha

https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/cryogenic-plant-helium-plant-12213985?pid=1332135816

Brian

1) First Ideas: Help Designing Dbl-Deck Plan in Dedicated Shed
2) Next Idea: Another Interesting Trackplan to Consider
3) Final Plan: Trans-Continental Connector

Reply 0

p51 Super User 3,143 posts

p51

This is one of those cases where I wish I modelled the postwar era as I'm a huge NASA fan (having gone to Space Camp as an adult several times, between 2012 and 2018).

railandsail wrote:

This particular prototype photo caught my attention. it appears as thought that single tank car on the right side of the photo is a cryogenic car very similar to a few of those produced by Broadway Limited models,..

I'd never seen any tank cars like the ones to the right, thanks for posting this. This helium car must be in captive use as it has friction bearings. Note the 1955 mfg date on this helium car. The reporting remarks are for the US Bureau of Mines, Helium division.
If I had to bet, I'd expect this was taken in a certain spot at Kennedy Space Center, near the USAF base. I'd love to know where this was taken for sure.

Lee

https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/etwnc-stoney-creek-branch-12197690?&trail=25

You can never have too much detail or too many trees!

Reply 0

railandsail Prolific poster 8,843 posts

railandsail

p51 wrote:

I'd never seen any tank cars like the ones to the right, thanks for posting this. This helium car must be in captive use as it has friction bearings. Note the 1955 mfg date on this helium car. The reporting remarks are for the US Bureau of Mines, Helium division.
If I had to bet, I'd expect this was taken in a certain spot at Kennedy Space Center, near the USAF base. I'd love to know where this was taken for sure.

Help me understand. Are you saying that this car would NOT be operated outside the base as it has friction bearings?

And since it is helium gas I doubt that would be produced on base?

BTW, I've sent a reference link to the 'tank car king', Bobby Pitts, to see if he might comment on either of those 2 cars in that photo.

Brian

1) First Ideas: Help Designing Dbl-Deck Plan in Dedicated Shed
2) Next Idea: Another Interesting Trackplan to Consider
3) Final Plan: Trans-Continental Connector

Reply 0

p51 Super User 3,143 posts

p51

railandsail wrote:

Help me understand. Are you saying that this car would NOT be operated outside the base as it has friction bearings?

No class 1 railroads want friction bearings on their lines. Some will outright deny any rolling stock equipped with them. Some people will tell you none will ever allow it, but there have been some movements of friction-bearing rolling stock with railroad cooperation. But that is not very common. The idea you can just interchange something with friction bearings without prior notice and a lot of 'mother may I' with the class 1 lines is, at best, overly hopeful. They would rather everything have roller bearings, as there are no hotbox issues with them.
That's the biggest reason if you buy a car with friction bearings; most railroads will require you to truck it to where you want it, or place it on the back of a long flatcar.

railandsail wrote:

And since it is helium gas I doubt that would be produced on base?

Helium is produced (that is, extracted) only in a few places on earth. None are in Florida.
That's one of the reasons the Hindenburg went up, as we wouldn't sell any helium to the Germans in the 30s.
That helium tank is marked for the bureau of mines, which controls most helium in the US.
As helium is finite (as is any other natural gas found in the ground), eventually we'll run out. Barring the 'sky is falling' comments where people declare we're going to run out at any time so as to scare people into conserving it, I have no idea how much there really is left.

Lee

https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/etwnc-stoney-creek-branch-12197690?&trail=25

You can never have too much detail or too many trees!

Reply 0

Chris VanderHeide cv_acr Super User 2,354 posts

Chris VanderHeide cv_acr

railandsail wrote:

Help me understand. Are you saying that this car would NOT be operated outside the base as it has friction bearings?

That depends, what is the DATE of the photo? That wasn't mentioned.

Plain bearings were banned from interchange service in the 1990s.

Chris van der Heide

CPR Sudbury Division (Waterloo Region Model Railway Club)

Reply 0

Chris VanderHeide cv_acr Super User 2,354 posts

Chris VanderHeide cv_acr

railandsail wrote:

I see where MTH (Mikes Train House) chose not to ignore this NASA theme on some of their freight cars. It does appear as though a lot of them were in O gauge trains, and perhaps not prototypical.

Total fantasy collection as far as I know.

Chris van der Heide

CPR Sudbury Division (Waterloo Region Model Railway Club)

Reply 0

p51 Super User 3,143 posts

p51

Chris VanderHeide cv_acr wrote:

That depends, what is the DATE of the photo? That wasn't mentioned.
Plain bearings were banned from interchange service in the 1990s.

Good point, but NASA departed from what many call the "meanball" insignia of the blue ball with the red vector, in favor of the stylized "worm" logo which was used from 1975 to 1992. They returned to the meatball on everything in the early 90s. Oddly, the worm came back very recently, harkening back to the shuttle era where NASA as truly busy.
Seeing that the tank car at the background has the older meatball, which would have been placed on such a car on either end of those dates. I would seriously doubt it was taken on or prior to 1975...

Lee

https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/etwnc-stoney-creek-branch-12197690?&trail=25

You can never have too much detail or too many trees!

Reply 0

Chris VanderHeide cv_acr Super User 2,354 posts

Chris VanderHeide cv_acr

p51 wrote:

I would seriously doubt it was taken on or prior to 1975...

And why would you make that assumption? All the cars visible in the photo are of the right design vintage. It could be taken any time within the next decade or so and still represent cars in older liveries.

Chris van der Heide

CPR Sudbury Division (Waterloo Region Model Railway Club)

Reply 0

p51 Super User 3,143 posts

p51

Chris VanderHeide cv_acr wrote:

And why would you make that assumption? All the cars visible in the photo are of the right design vintage.

Becasue I really don't think they used the meatball on tank cars even back then, but there's always the chance it might be from that area. If this was taken where I think it was (at a spot in the area between KSC and the USAF base), that location was different before the 80s.
But yeah, it might be from the 70s.

Lee