Joiner selection

Dear ?? (tcrofton)

- For "pre-soldering curved rail lengths", metal joiners are definitely reccomended. The situation is calling for _mechanical_ strength in the joint, which a rail<> rail soldered butt-joint simply won't have, esp if curved tightly.
Metal joiners mechanically re-inforce the rail<> rail joint, and ensure the joint "takes the smooth curve" and stays-aligned.

- For block-insulating gaps, plastic joiners are not _required_. If you happen to have a iso-joint in a location where a (typically visually oversize) iso-joiner can be simply deployed during initial-laying, then by all means go for it.

However, it's equally easy to just:
- lay the track,
- locate the required Iso-gap locations,
- ensure that the ties/sleepers either side of the iso-gap are _mechanically_solidly_ fastened
(extra spikes, PCB ties, anything you need to ensure the rail will stay where it's been put is fair-game)
- then cut the gap with a razor saw or thin motor-tool cut-off disk
(Search box at top right of this page should give you links to recent threads on the topic)
- and fill the resulting gap with a sliver of styrene + ACC
(avoids the gap closing-up and creating "hair-tearingly intermittent" intermittent-short-circuits)

Hope this helps...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Soldering a curved section...

Depending on your skills, this may introduce a point where the curve becomes a kink.  Soldered joints do not retain or create the same stiffness (or straightness) as uncut rail.

As for  the "do I need to... " type questions,  I refer back to one of my High School teachers who answered that Same type question, "...you don't have to do Anything!"   I fondly keep that in mind.

Blocks can be made using open cuts that are later filled... JoeF has plenty to suggest there.  I think a recent thread suggested a filler of corn starch    Baking Soda + CA adhesive. To be sculpted to size promptly, as it dries very hard.

As for curves, I like to supplement my joints (Note: I use flex track, not hand built) ... with a few spikes at difficult locations... luckily, I have only 2.  And I do not solder rail as a rule.  Also, (when handling open rail) my preferred method is to curve all sections to a radius before laying them, paying special close attention to the ends.

But those are my 'rules', and  You don't Have To!

You don’t have to

I use code 70 weathered ME rail glued to CVMV tie strips. I soldered 9’ lengths of rail together with rail joiners as that was a comfortable length for me. I gapped the rails with a Dremel tool and they are 45 degree cuts fixed with styrene. My suggestion is don’t over analyze, do what is comfortable to you.

BUT, IMO, anything JoeF says about tracking laying is worth it’s weight in gold... or in our case few track issues down the way.

Tom

thanks all

that all makes sense to me, thanks

I was hoping to avoid the joiners but can understand the curved issue. I will use 36" lengths of Code 83 and was thinking of making a bending jig as demonstrated on some other threads. As a woodworker, not a machinist, I am thinking of cutting 3 rollers with the correct shape  of the rail (with joiner) on a drill press (like a lathe) and moving the center one inwards with a bolt (like a chainsaw adjuster). I'm planning on 36", 34", and 32" radii on my long sweeping curves where the joints will occur. I have seen pictures of Styrene spacers added and shaped to isolate.straight gaps.

only where needed

i originally didn't use any rail joiners when I hand laid the turnouts and rails of my layout.  The gaps remain near frogs, and of course there are many places on railroads gaps are a necessity such as turntables and movable bridges.

Over time, I found a few places where they solved some reoccurring problems and provided more reliable solder connections.   In particular, around curves, rail joiners helped maintain the curve of the rail.

when I recently built a curved turnout, i slapped together a bender using standard bearings with one mounted on a slide that was blocked by a screw (will i ever use it again).   I found that it curved the rail which could be recurved more finely by just running it through my fingers.

"I'm planning on 36", 34",

  You shouldn't have any problem bending code 83 to those radii, I wouldn't worry about a rail bender, just bend it with your hands to match the ties glued on the roadbed and spike it using the standards gauge to keep it centered on the ties. I solder my joints( using rail joiners) as I go to fair up the curves.You can cut the joiners shorter if you want, they come longer than necessary but it's more work to shorten them. If you can keep your insulated joints on a straight section of track they'll be less likely to get out of alignment so they can be left without any rail joiners.  Hand spiking is a lot of work and time spent so I'd highly recommend flex track for HO scale, just hand laying the turnouts if you don't want to buy ready to use ones...DaveB 

not corn starch + CA

I was trying to use baking soda + CA. That was the title of the other thread. It's good for very narrow gaps, but I didn't feel I'd perfected the technique. And it would strictly be for filling gaps after rail had been bent laid and then gapped for blocks, it wouldn't have mechanical strength for bending rail. 

I settled on liquid nails caulk instead, which was much easier and faster, but probably might not be hard enough to prevent rail expansion closure on its own.

Gaps for electrical blocks can also be cut with a jeweler's saw, which results in a much narrower gap than  a razor saw or thin motor-tool cut-off disk.

Prof Klytzers directions are something of a belt-and-suspenders approach. If you use a truly effective method of making sure that there is no movement (including heat/humidity expansion of subroadbed) as he recommends then you just need to fill the gap for visual reasons and to prevent conductive debris from creating a short, which is why I decided to rely on the soldering to adjacent pcb ties to hold the gap open and just use caulk to visually fill the gap. 

I was working on turnouts, with much shorter lengths of rail involved than hand-laid track, so much less opportunity for rail expansion due to heat or the subroadbed moving around.

seeing as the rail can be

seeing as the rail can be joined off the layout, (to a point) how about just "welding" or silver soldering? much harder than lead solder.

yes a 6 ft or 9 foot length of welded rail can be fun to handle. and a fail if using flex track on plastic ties.

i am using flex track and will be using connectors and lead solder but will be doing the soldering before bending the track. then cut gaps as needed, and ill try to do so only on straight track.