First draft

Here is what I came up with for my On30 return loop. 

"What would you do?"

  What is the overall layout plan? Traffic density, operational pattern,etc. Does it really need staging to function? How would staging enhance the on-scene operations and could that function be carried out with on-scene staging? As we age hidden tracks become less attractive to build, access,and maintain so some form of on scene staging( before starting the session assemble trains or cars  on an inbound track, run the operations scenario, park the outbounds on the same track and end the session) might be worth looking into.Storage shelves or cabinets in the room along with an easy to access staging track make it painless to assemble and dis-assemble inbound and outbound equipment......DaveB

Reverse loop

Reverse loop staging yards are a cool idea. Trains stage themselves. As long as the tracks are long enough for the trains you want to stage they work great!

Mole

Hidden staging loops can have downsides (is the track clear, people crawling along the floor, how do I know my train is in the right track, how do I know the track is clear, etc.), but if you have a mole that tells me it won't be buried.

What is the purpose of the "mole".  Will he or she be fiddling the trains?  Swapping out power or cars?  How will they do that?  Will they be in the 48" hole or the 36" hole? Will they be able to rearrange the trains on curved track?  Do they need to use the "passing sidng" to do that?  does the "passing siding" need to have wider track spacing for fingers and three or four straight rerailer sections in it to help put cars on the track?

Staging of Fiddle Yard?

Neil,

If your intent is to just stage complete trains for an operating session, your sketch looks pretty good to me, not withstanding the previous comments about us "oldsters" crawling on the floor to pop up in the middle. 

But if this is a fiddle yard, where you would add/subtract cars from your layout, doing so on curved tracks can be more of a challenge than on straight tracks, which it doesn't look like there are many of....

Al Carter

JMRI and staging

Thanks all!

The idea for the layout is a once around the room, one-town”, layout built museum style. The staging (not fiddle) tracks are to be “backstage” and represent both ends of the line. The mole holes are for inevitable issues and maintenance. 

This layout is an opportunity to learn JMRI and I hope to automate some or all trains on this lower deck. The actual space is in the slopes ceiling area of the train room so not really very useful as anything but storage. I can sit in an office chair comfortably in these “holes” but won’t be fiddling cars. 

This is a one person layout that will need to entertain occasional guests. An interchange is the focus of the layout where cars will be dropped for the branch local. How that is done in JMRI is currently beyond me! An upper deck will be a switching layout with a simple design and few industries. 

How much inter change was actually done on narrow gage?

In Colorado where there were at least 3 interconnecting narrow gage railroads, they may have interchanged cars, but since most of the country's railroads were standard gage, interchange to or from narrow gage lines was usually done by transferring loads from narrow gage cars to standard gage cars or vice versa, I think.  

I would suggest a big enough classification yard to hold most or all of your rolling stock.  Typically narrow gage trains were fairly short and rail cars were short, especially if in mountainous terrain.  If your max train size was 10 cars + a caboose, a yard holding 30 - 50 cars could serve as staging easily.  How many trains do you foresee running at one time?

OR&L

Russ: 

You are tight for most narrow gauge lines. This railroad had a branch with 4+% grades so tried Shays for a while, and the period I want to model, so the mainline run would drop off a cut and pick up cars left from the branch on the return trip. Trains up the branch will be 6-8 cars (6’ - 7’ sidings in O scale). The mainline trains were often 22 cars or longer with double headers. That is a lot of staging! I hope that 14’ will give the impression of a long enough train. That would be about 16-18 cars and double headed K-28’s. 

The number of trains run will be limited to $$ and space. Since this is primarily for me then I imagine a passenger train, local, and through train would be in staging or on the layout. That would leave an extra track for specials such as a work train, trash train, or seasonal pineapple train. It would be nice to have on layout storage but carts should do to make up something different occasionally while “in the hole”. 

Maybe a fiddle track or removable cartridge would make this easier. 

Train length

Neil, I think 14’ should be plenty to give the impression of a long train.  I think any train that you can’t see both ends of without turning your head seems “long”.

"Hidden staging loops can

Small Obsticle

Well I had the wall framing up and the inner sanctum ready for some Masonite to keep nosing eyes from behind the curtain and I realized that my space is narrower than the largest radius. Dope!

I got too excited reading everyone else’s blogs on construction but did do one thing right and that was to use construction screws! You know, the kind that uses the star shaped driver bit. So out cake the offending studs and 1/2” plywood was laid on the floor and trammel created for the four radius. All good. Uh, no. 

Ok, there will be a one turn spiral (helix? Is helix singular?) up to cross over the mainline and begin the no-lix (track rising up to the second deck around the room without a helix - i.e. no helix or nolix). I decided to borrow an idea from the helix guys and picked up some threaded rod, nuts and washers and repositioned the track centers so the 36” radius track has some breathing room on each side for these spacers. 

All good except the building is a former loft space of a poll barn. Guess where the top of the pole is? Yeah. Good thing I saw that before cutting plywood. This may all seem bass-ackward but, admirably, I have saved a lot of c*#% up in this space and need to work around these “collectibles”. Every time I have to move something it gets sorted into the good, bad, and ugly then stored in the back of the truck to be “donated”. Yeah, donated. If she asks ...

Drawing at 1:1

Progress!

After some scolding from my doctor for lifting this plywood (I swear it was all my left arm!), I felt the urge to do something that felt like railroad modeling. The jig saw may be out of the question for a few more weeks. I didn’t mention doing framing on the partition wall between the visible part of the layout and staging. 

An old office chair was tested for the duck-under. The other studs are pending final staging design. 

Lighting Big Factor / Remote video camera

Hi Umauma,

Get your lighting installed while the area is still wide open and the wiring is easy.

Be SURE to have more light then you think you need.

Consider:

  -- a cheap video camera to monitor the hidden area.

 -- turnout position indicators.

 -- block occupancy detectors and indicators.

1 to 1 track planning

Isn't 1 to 1 track planning FUN

Those LED lights I got from amazon were cheap and put out lots of light.

Thanks!

I realized that this Topic has not been what I expected for others to post their staging yards or ideas and I have moved into actual construction. As such, another title or blog seems in order. 

With regard to lighting, I need to figure this out - and soon! Good thought. 

I have ir detectors in the wings and look forward to seeing how they play with an arduino and JMRI. At some point some voltage detectors will be added but wheelset resistors need to be put into production. So many projects and so little time. 

i love storage yards. as i

i love storage yards. as i get older my eyes are not so good, so for me keeping my hands off them is best.

but you might also think about a re-railer or four. things happen, so plan on a way to fix on the fly.

got cat? keep it out of the train room.

and get one of those air cleaner filters from a big box hardware store (filters cost much less online).

Hidden staging below main track

Exactly

@voluse:

That describes what I am doing as well. The inspiration came from very old, and somewhat famous, layout by the late Irv Shultz called the St. Claire Northern. The hidden loops at both ends of the layout were used to stage a train to run across the visible part of the layout. 

I’ve discovered the Tam Valley Duel Frog Juicer. Instead of using it to reverse the frog polarity of two frogs it can be used in a reverse loop (or wye). 

Hidden staging below main track

EBT/PRR

The ideal arrangement for the PRR would be a multiple track loop with one or two staging tracks on each loop.  Then the PRR would just orbit with only one train in each direction working Mt Union.  Everybody else just orbits occasionally as scenery.

I was fortunate enough to ride a couple "Winter Woolies" on the EBT back in the late '70's.  Way cool railroad.

WN Branch

The New Guy's Stuff

Neil, I just discovered this new guy ID thread.  You are having a lot of fun for sure. Another poster mentioned lighting. Be sure you put in more wall outlets than you think you need and lots of lighting boxes before you close in walls and partitions. Extension cords and flashlights don't cut it. I cannot lend any staging thoughts as all my stuff is in boxes. I'm really enjoying finding and following the threads of your new adventures. 

Frog Juicers

Neil I can vouch for the Tam Valley Frog Juicers on reversing loops.  I have two on my layout and they work absolutely flawlessly.  In addition the customer service that Duncan Macree provides is absolutely top notch.