Bruce Chubb...

...did a book that deals with operation. There is a LOT of good stuff within his book. He discusses theory, gives examples of car forwarding, scheduling, et al. Very comprehensive. You might consider obtaining a copy from eBay.

There's some on eBay now:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/How-to-Operate-Your-Model-Railroad-Bruce-A-Chubb/323533795827?hash=item4b541df1f3:g:3JwAAOSwzINa7Mof:rk:1f:0

Best of luck in your operational journey.

Andre

Operations

You have the basics down.  There are some tweaks to the details.  Operations involves many aspects.  There are :

• Car forwarding : The movement of goods and cars 
• Main track authority :  What authorizes a train to use the main tracks and to move with respect to other trains.
• Transportation planning :  The routes and types of service provided to organize the two above.
• Yard operations :  The processing and organizing of cars through yards and terminals.
• Resource management :  Processes and management of the 5 resources of a railroad :  People, locomotives, cars, main track capacity, yard capacity.
• Employee activities :  The safety and operating rules that govern the actions of the various crews, employees and people associated with the transportation product.

Pretty much everything in "operations" falls into one of those general categories.

Not sure what "CTS" is, there is CTC, centralized traffic control.

One thing most people don't realize is that most main track authorities are a mix of systems.  For example if you are modeling prior to 1985, TT&TO was "used' on every single mile of main track in the US.  CTC, you still have TT&TO under it.  Rule 251, you still have TT&TO under it.  Yard limits, you still have TT&TO under it.  In the modern era, track warrants (or equivalent) support every mile of main track.  Other systems are overlaid on top of it.

Because there are so many aspects, plus they  evolved over time and have unique tweaks for each railroad, each layout is a unique blend of these aspects and they run the entire gamut of possibilities.

have the chubb book.   should

have the chubb book.   should review it

Dave,    you make me think that a modeler can put various techniques into practice (car forwarding, TT&TO/CTC, layout design - trackwork and signaling) but unless all are done effectively, the result can be less than satisfactory.

presumably all can be refined over time, just as it did with real railroads so that an operating session is productive (moves a lot of trains and cars) and runs smoothly.   Of course every layout is different.   layout limitation must be recognized.

The whole enchilada

I think you are misconstruing what I said.  What I said was there is a whole spectrum of operations, in many dimensions, and somebody can be anywhere in that universe.  Never said you have to do it all, just there is a lot out there to choose from.  I like certain parts and ignore other parts.  "Prototype" throttle?  I'll probably never buy one.  Some people love them.  Great.  We are just in different places in the types of operation we like.

As for the last sentence, if you do something and its not effective, wouldn't that be unsatisfactory?  Nobody says, " I implemented TT&TO and it was a total cluster, but that was what I was shooting for!  I wanted a total fail and I got it."  What I want is that the parts I do choose to model to work the way I intended.

Sorta ties into the two questions:

• What did the prototype do?
• What should I do on my layout?

​They are two different questions and may have different answers.  The first question is factual, the second question is opinion.  Both may have multiple answers.  Signal questions are good example.  There are very specific signal arrangements for specific situations on specific railroads.  In reality, most people don't want that level of complexity, don't have the room to make it work prototypically, and the model operators don't have understanding or speedometers to comply with the indications, so they are going to do some sort of approximation of a signal system that works for the model situation.

I completely agree with the "can be refined" over time idea.  That's where the ineffective = unsatisfactory ties in.  If its ineffective, it will be unsatisfactory and not being satisfied will drive you to refine the process.  The question of what you think "refine" means depends on what you think "effective" means.  It will be different for everybody.

what are the dimensions?

i think what you describe as dimensions is what I was trying to ask when I said aspects

it was an eye opener for me to see this other layout which is one half yard and the other half a large station and another small industrial yard and learn about handling multiple trains thru a yard

for now, he car cards and hopefully just a sequence of trains and locals entering leaving the yard, much less a time schedule.   Presumably these things will come with experience 

this new understanding makes me wonder about other types/aspects of operation.

i think one i'm not very familiar with are train orders

To drill down a wee bit further....

"One thing most people don't realize is that most main track authorities are a mix of systems.  For example if you are modeling prior to 1985, TT&TO was "used' on every single mile of main track in the US.  CTC, you still have TT&TO under it.  Rule 251, you still have TT&TO under it.  Yard limits, you still have TT&TO under it.  In the modern era, track warrants (or equivalent) support every mile of main track.  Other systems are overlaid on top of it." Dave.

Dave,

I bring up this older thread because I'm drilling further into what you've said to see practical application on my railroad. In my case a general flavor of what would be done is probably sufficient for my "prototype freelancing" layout.

Currently 80-90% of my main tracks are under CTC with interlockings joined together by ABS intermediate signals. In order to run a train (modern post 1995) I require two authorities.

1. Authority to be a train in the form of a written Dispatcher Bulletin containing messages, with release time and release initials given by dispatcher.

2. Movement authority by CTC signal indication (often with verbal confirmation to ward off confusion/color blindness) if needed). On main tracks not under CTC, I use DTC warrants.

The question is, should there be an active warrant issued in addition to the DS Bulletin even if the movement is governed by CTC signal indication, or is the bulletin authorization to occupy, and signal indication to move enough?

Variations on a theme

The names of the different documents varies by the rule book, for example in the GCOR a train is a train when its authorized to occupy the main track.  So when it gets a track warrant or a signal its has authority.  It also needs a track warrant for bulletins if it is in CTC.

DTC was used by several railroads, it was a "proprietary" system (at least the SP version was), so wasn't used by as many railroads as track warrants were, that was more "open source".  DTC operates like an old DC rotary block switch layout.  Whether you want to say the prototype operates like model or the model operates like the prototype is up to you.

Depends on what rule book you are using.

Under GCOR, a train needs a receive a "track warrant for bulletins" before it departed its initial terminal.  That was the modern equivalent of a clearance.  Under GCOR "bulletins" covered non-movement information, form A's were "slow orders", form B's were gang protection orders and form C's were other informational messages (wide loads, obstructions, rule changes, etc.)  In CTC a track warrant for movement was not necessary, but track warrants for bulletins were needed on every main track.  On modern railroads every job, road or yard got a track warrant for bulletins and bulletins (if applicable).

In CTC the proceed signal is authority to occupy the main track and a proceed.

Since the railroads I am familiar with, there isn't a document called "DS Bulletin", depending on exactly what that translates to in GCORese will determine what the answer to your question is, its probably a track warrant for bulletins.

Huge Bite

Glad you have an interest in realistic operations.  

Learning how prototypical railroads operate can be interesting.  One thing I do caution is not to bite-off more than is necessary to enjoy operating the layout.  

You will find many operating rules, procedures, etc. both past and current do not translate well for model railroad operations.  Others may work well for one layout but not so well for others.  

Joe

in GCOR, referred to as" track bulletin"....

for BNSF/ATSF crews,issued with the train's manifest at the terminal they started from.

Covers temp speed restrictions,Hazards along the subdivision ahead,Track foreman radio permission to enter

work zone limits at what speed the foreman allows,switch position form,Rule 6.26 malfunctioning Grade Crossing radio orders,Radio issued speed restrictions while inroute.

Each subdivision adds it's track bulletin to the manifest as T&E crews change

Specific vs. general

The discussion about the "dispatcher track bulletin" may cause some people to say that "prototype operation is to complicated and confusing".  That was a specific question about a specific document using specific terminology  in a specific situation. 

The general answer cuts across almost all railroads.  Since about 1880 all railroads issued documents to trains warning them of problems with the track or things they needed to watch out for (train orders and track bulletins are two examples).  Since about 1900-1910 all railroads have required trains to have a document out of the initial terminal that lists what train orders or bulletins the train was supposed to have (clearance or track warrant for bulletins are two examples).  Trains also need a list or documentation of the cars in the train, whether they are loaded or empty and what's in them.  They also needed to know how much the car weighed. Since the late 1970's or early 1980's the crew in the US were required to have a list that showed the position of any cars in the train that were placarded and what was in them, and the proper documentation for whatever the hazmat was.

In addition to move across a main track in the US, the dispatch office was Federally required to maintain a record of the train name, the engines, loads, empties, tons, the crew members names, and when they were on duty.  A railroad had to have that "trainsheet" information to run the train.  Within the last couple decades that has expanded to any job (road or yard) that uses the main track and with PTC it now includes the route the train will take.

A modern train crew on a class 1 railroad will receive a packet of information before they get on the train that includes:

• Train consist or manifest - a list of the cars in their train in standing order and includes info on what is in the cars, where they are going and how much they weigh.
• A work order - more or less a 'switch" list that tells what cars are scheduled to be set out or spotted where , possibly what cars are scheduled to be pulled or picked up where and areas to note times and exceptions.
• A train profile - a more graphic display of the weight distribution of the train.
• A hazmat document - for every placarded car it has the car, what's in the car, how much is in the car, how the car should be handled in an emergency, and emergency contacts
• A list of the train movement documents they should have - a track warrant for bulletins or clearance
• All the bulletins or orders on the above list
• An authority form movement (optional depending on whether its CTC or an authority is granted verbally.
• Whatever other documents are required by the railroad.

Note that with the first 3 documents (and possibly the 4th) they crew can get 3 or 4 documents that each list every car in the train, each with their own purpose.  The class1 I worked for limited a track warrant for bulletins to have 30 bulletins.  In the summer, with heat restrictions and track work going on, creating multiple speed restrictions and gang protection orders, a long crew district with multiple tracks, that includes a major terminal, a train crew might have to get two track warrants for bulletins because they had over 30 bulletins. 

This of course, doesn't include the timetable, rule books, general orders, general bulletins, etc that the crew would have to be familiar with and have access to.

A model crew carrying 10-20 car cards or a switch list, a clearance and a couple orders/warrants and a timetable doesn't seem so bad now does it?

Thanks Dave...

The details you describe actually make it easier to realistically select and compress for model operating use.

I'm in the camp that believes a study of the full scale railroad makes it easier to choose procedures that are simple enough, yet retain the flavor and intent of the real world.

"A model crew carrying 10-20

 You are forgetting that the prototype crew gets paid to deal with all that paper while the model crew gets nada....DaveB 

Short line paperwork

Back in the old days, we would get a weekly General Order, that would list the standing speed restrictions, and other conditions that we would need to know about.  If conditions changed, a track bulletin was issued, and the track warrant would have the bulletin number needed.  If the condition lasted until the weekend, it would be added to the weekly General Order.  Saved a bunch of paper, as one wouldn't need to print out 6-7 pages of bulletins everyday for the same conditions. 

Some railroads spend more on paper than they do on rail...

The dispatching corps were on the ball as well.  They had a 24x36 inch "train sheet" to track movements on.  Us crews didn't have to figure out road miles, switching miles, and a few other things, as dispatch took care of it. 

One terminal had the yard lists on hard cards.  Keeping the lists updated took a bit of time at the end of the shift to write out new lists as required.  The lists were then faxed over to dispatch, to be entered into the computer.  The other terminals had yardmasters to help keep things straightened out.

Customer service (one person) would fax over a sheet with the customers, and the anticipated activities at each.  Some places got a switch often, some once every 2-3 months.  When it was time to pull in a 25 or 50 car set of grain, the sheet would give a heads up 2-3 days in advance, so power, track space and crews could be ready.

With these tools. and the right attitude, one could get somewhat of a big picture perspective on what was going on.  There were essentially no passing sidings, so the one train a day would do the work, and spread it out as needed, as train size was limited by power availability and track layout.  Most jobs were out and back, often with a relief crew, as there was too much for one crew to get done in a day.

One of the aspects of my

One of the aspects of my operations is to pause them, photograph it, then ask questions on the forum in regards to how a situation would be resolved or if the switching I'm doing it realistic; getting an education so to speak.

I also like to stage incidents and photograph them and seek info on how the incident could have happened, be prevented, and resolved.

https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/35921?page=2

Since no one in my neck of the woods is interested in having sessions on my small branch line terminus,

https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/31151?page=24

this aspect of my operations is a way to have others involved; in part having an operating session with folk on the forum.

https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/34885?page=1

I also did this aspect of operations when the layout wasn't quite complete/scenicked:

https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/31118

Shortline vs. Class 1 Paper

In reality, the paperwork used by a class one and a shortline  is basically the same.  The class one will be more computerized so will have more "extras" but the fundamental stuff (and the stuff required by law) will be the same.

Model complexity

A model railroad actually only models about 5% of the activities it takes to operate a real railroad.