FKD

I had a N Scale layout I've been working on for years, it is gone.  But the time came to reconfigure the space and have gone from a rolling table design to an around the wall design.

So now back to the "Dream and Design" stage. 

The layout room (an alcove off the rec-room) is 76" x 110" with an option to include a 60" x 12" (maybe upto 14") 'shadow box' in the adjoining rec-room on top of the half wall between the two rooms.  I also can 'tunnel" through one of the walls into my workshop so there are options for a staging yard and/or helix out of sight in the other room.  But probably not going there. 

I've been playing around with multiple options on SCARM and XtrackCAD. 

A sample of my 'dreaming' - my more K.I.S.S. design 

 

m%20view.JPG 

I have a few big design questions to answer for myself first. 

To go to Helix or not to Helix - that is the question

Do I want to go multi-levels - as in two shelves using a helix to climb the 10-12" I would need to gain.  

Given my 76" wide alcove I need to go with a narrower radius helix.  I have figured out I could do one up to about 14" which can mean a 2% grade.  (I have toyed with idea of helix in the workshop room through the wall - a sub-optimal solution I think) 

Upside of two levels is obviously more room - but the helix takes up a lot of surface area.  A 30" diameter helix  takes up 6.25 square feet.  Assuming a 14" shelf I would have about 17 Sq feet of upper level space.  So have to decide if the space, cost and effort of the helix is worth that gain of about 11 Sq feet of shelf space.   Granted the 6.25 sq feet is a 30" square of property while the 11 Sq feet is 176 linear inches 14" wide which offers more MRR options.  

So big question one is go with a Helix to two levels or not?   

What say ye MRR Enthusiasts, is a Helix worth it in this layout room?  

 

I below is one way I might go to Helix20levels.JPG 

 

few of my 'given's and druthers" 

  • I'm using Code 55 Peco track and Code 80 Peco switches (yes apparently they are compatible)  I have about 40 of the peco Code 80 switches so switching my switches isn't an easy option.  
  • I'd like to keep my main line to a 14"R and maybe 10" on yards and tight spaces like the dock area.  
  • I want a absolute minimum of 22" aisle width at pinch point - wider in 'work area'.  I play alone - maybe a guest once in a blue moon. Designed for solo operations
  • Reach is kept to about 26" (yes I need to stretch to do that). less is better
  • Climb to be limited to 2%.  In the helix if double tracked the down track can exceed 2%.  
  • Maybe a duck-under bridge (that is hinged or lift off too)
  • Planning on two track main, with one completely isolated independant line for DC and then the rest in DCC. So I can run some of my non-converted old engines. 
  • I tend to run small transition era diesels but do have several vintage steamers.  I have some passenger cars that I do run so the wider the radius the better.  
  • My priority is realistic scenery, rather detail a building than solder electronics. But do have a fine Weller solder station and do that, just more of an 'artist' than a technician. 
  • I have young grand kids - so kid proofing matters.  (so far do not have any Thomas cars).  
  • I want a
    • townsite (with trolley line),
    • dockside complete with car float dock,
    • a small yard,
    • a couple of industries,
    • space for a fun amusement park (have several rides models to assemble)
    • and a campgrounds.  

 

 

 

 

 

David 

aka Fort Kent Dad or FKD for short

Alberta, Canada

Reply 0
MLee

What I would Do

Yes I would use a helix if it worked for my case.

I would make a quick and dirty helix with a 14" radius and 2% grade.  Up on the outside down on the inside.  Run trains.  See what works. weight your cars.  Watch your vertical curves and easements.  For DC locos use analog volt and amp meters to monitor performance on the helix  I use a 20 Volt volt meter and a 1.5 amp amp meter from China.  Got them off ebay.  For DCC use a RRampMeter V 3 to monitor performance. 

You will have problems.  Record your successes and problems on your thread.  We will give you great feedback on your successes and help you with your problems.

 

Mike Lee

Reply 0
FKD

Quick and Dirty Helix

That sounds like a plan - I could make one up - go up two laps and see how my engines perform.   I think I'd build it to the same standard as the finished product would be so that if it works, I just keep going up more laps, if not, well I have a fire pit in need of more wood. 

The Helix would be limited to DCC.  in my layout plan my DC track circles the outside of the layout.  Goal is to make it not appear distinct, but isolated from the DCC line.  (have pondered whether a level crossing would work with one line DC and the other DCC but decided to pass due to the risk of shorts).  

RE Testing the loads with a RRampMeter ... never have done the meter thing or worried about monitoring volts etc.  have to look into that whole side of MRRing.  

 

 

David 

aka Fort Kent Dad or FKD for short

Alberta, Canada

Reply 0
FKD

The plan evolves

Getting the hang of XtrackCAD - lots to learn for sure, but it is coming along. 

https://flic.kr/p/MSJ8V2

Hoping this link to my Flicker post works.  if it does not will have to go back and see what I can find on how to post via flickr.  

I'm really leaning towards keeping it on one level.  In part because the base level will be 50" off the floor already.  The upper deck if built would require stepping stools or stilts.  

And there is something to be said for K.I.S.S.ing  

And wholly bankroll Batman, those helix's will chew up the track budget real fast.  A double tracked 13 & 14.5" R helix has almost as much track as the rest of my layout.  

So, I've been pretending to be a CAD technician and playing with XtrackCAD.  Reading past issues of MRH and other magazines and books I have, watching MRR Youtubes and browsing websites - there is not shortage of materials.  

In the plan that I hope you can see, the mainline has a min. R of 16" - yes wish it was wider but I'm working in an alcove 76" wide so there are limitations.  Choosing a lift bridge to allow for continuous helped eliminate the tight tight curves in my earlier plans.  Sure a lift bridge (or duck under bridge) is a compromise but in my case it made sense.  

There is a bit of a helix of sort - more of a once around loop to climb 2.5"  in smaller space.  

That same spot where the lower track climbs that 2.5" to connect with the higher track, could be used to helix up 12" if I did want to 'take it to the next level' - so that still could happen.  .... but today I'm more inclined to just keep it on the level - one level (more or less, track level ranges from 50 to 53" off the floor).  

 

 

David 

aka Fort Kent Dad or FKD for short

Alberta, Canada

Reply 0
David Husman dave1905

Helix

If you go to two levels you have to leave enough room above the upper tracks on the lower to clear the bottom of the upper level.  If the helix goes up 12 in, the upper tracks on the lower level are 2.5" above the base, that leaves 9.5 in of clearance.  Throw in at least 2 in for the thickness of the upper shelf, you are down to 7.5" clearance.

Lighting two levels also becomes a consideration, especially maintaining light levels between a room lighted portion and the portion under the upper shelf.  If light level is important to you its something you will have to consider.

I would suggest looking at your yard design, it looks like the maximum size train you can easily run, based on the runaround length, seems a bit short.

Dave Husman

Visit my website :  https://wnbranch.com/

Blog index:  Dave Husman Blog Index

Reply 0
Chris Smith

Consider double deck without a helix

One deck for longer running, the other deck for branch-line, industrial, junction, etc.

There is no rule requiring a helix and the associated fabrication/costs. A long continuous run where the train is hidden in a helix is certainly a compromise. It has a place for some schemes but is not a given.

I use stacked staging. Since I do prototype ops, trains bound for the lower branch line deck enter staging on the upper deck. They re-appear on the lower deck staging the next session to continue their run. Trains are moved by hand between sessions.

All depends on how many trains and how long they are whether you might need a helix or not.

Reply 0
FKD

Developing Track Plan

V15.JPG 

Decided to pass on the a multi level layout.  As it is, this layout is an ambitious project for me.  I'm more interested in create scenes than operations.  It is designed for single operator but one guest could also play. 

Getting the hang of XtrackCAD (took some effort but well worth the it). 

Questions and suggestions welcome.

Construction of the benchwork started this weekend.   

Track is Peco 55 using older Peco 80 switches (plus an old Shinohara crossover I'm rebuilding - it needed a lot of TLC).  The Shadow Box will be my waterfront scene and will be removable, ... maybe even take to a show some year.  The top of my helix will be "Santa's Village" park complete with a Z scale park train.  It too will be removable.  It will also tilt up over the helix.  It is a small helix, one loop goes down 2", and two lines go up 2".    This layout will have one full loop running DC elecally isolated (it is the inner loop that runs around the layout).  The trolley and Z scale are also DC.  All the rest of the track is DCC (NCE Powercab).  

FKD

David 

aka Fort Kent Dad or FKD for short

Alberta, Canada

Reply 0
Will_Annand

I have a helix that works great,

I have a helix that works great, it is 48"x48" and is cut from one piece of wood.

http://www.rslaserkits.com/CVR/Files/MR-Quarry_Helix.pdf

It is built like a quarry.

-CVR-243.jpg 

Reply 0
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