Scale?

I'm guessing it's N, since it appears to be 10'x2.5' in size.

And the questions are...

First some details. This will be in N scale, and the overall size is 10ft x 2ft 6in. The grid squares are 6". Because it's going into a multi purpose room, I can't attach it to walls so it will be free standing. I have based the plan on the "Fall Creek Branch" layout which appeared in the March 2016 MR. It was originally a 6ft by 15in HO switching layout. I added the loops and staging so the trains could "go somewhere".

The black rectangles represent industries, most of which are still undecided. I do know I'd like to include some or all of:

• A fuel distributor
• A grain elevator 
• Probably a scrap yard of some sort
• Team track (bottom left track)
• A depot
• Some other manufacturers/Warehouses
• Perhaps some town buildings in the background

The blue lines in front of staging represent a low backdrop to hide staging. Some of this may be done as low hills or trees instead of just a flat board with a skyline/trees painted on it.There will probably be a wooded area behind and to the right of the bridge.

The loops at each end are 10-11" radius. If I omitted the easements I think they could be 13-14".

The green dimension lines indicate two possible ways to divide the layout into modules. The simplest is two 5ft by 2ft 6in modules, although this poses problems in terms of efficient use of plywood. The other possibility is to divide the layout into 3 modules 3' 4", 3' 2" and 3' 6" long. Originally they were all to be 3' 4" but this put joins under turnouts, so I adjusted them. All these alternatives are indicate in green on the plan.

I have a couple of GP-38s (SP and BN), a BNSF B23-7, and an RS3 painted as UP, although as far as I can work out they never had one. If you squint a little, this might be able to pass for one of the UP's RS-2 or RSC-2 engines.

I also have a variety of rolling stock, including coal hoppers, covered hoppers, flatcars, etc., so could probably accommodate most any industry to some degree.

Now my questions.

• Obviously, your thoughts on the track plan are welcome.
• Given the relatively small size of the modules, I am wondering whether 12mm ply (approx 1/2") would provide sufficient strength, or whether I should go for 19mm (approx 3/4").
• I'm tossing up between using ply for the framing as well as the top, or using dimensional lumber (1" x 3" or 1" by 4"). Your thoughts?

Thanks in advance for your advice. I may not use it all, but I'll definitely take note of it.

Gee, you're quick off the mark Jeff.

Yes, N scale. I've added some detail in my subsequent post.

1/2" plywood will be just

1/2" plywood will be just fine if you keep the joist spacing to around 12-14" The trains do not weigh that much. Now if you plan on leaning on the surface then go to 3/4". 

Good idea to add staging, you can never have enough of that. As for the design... You show a building on the bottom of your only run around. Of you spot a car there then there is no way to switch either the left or right tail tracks. I would suggest the left hand crossover, move it as far to the left as possible to make the run around as long as possible. Also, either leave that building off all together or make it non rail served. 

Have you looked a lot of plan designs? How did you come to settle on this? 

Design Tweaks

A few minor tweaks that might enhance your enjoyment of the RR.  

1. The run around/passing siding could be made longer. Otherwise you have a mismatch between the staging track length and the space to do work at the main town.

2. Instead of the inner switchback, re-arrange it to two stub end tracks and then the grain elevator could be made larger.  This would make for more cars that could be delivered and would visually dominate the scene.

Feedback

I am a big fan of these type of trackplans.  A couple of my interim layouts had this type of plan.

You might want to make the "staging yard" visible and sceniced.  Stagger the switches a bit and make it less like a "yard" and more like a couple sidings.  You can add a track off the end as an "interchange" for another switching opportunity.   Similarly the end caps become scenic opportunities for some nice little scenes.  On the front side, think about the switchback, one isn't too bad but something to consider.

One other track related suggestion is to cant the oval slightly on the diagonal so it not parallel to the edges, makes it scenically more attractive.

As far as industries I would make a couple suggestions.

Rather than a grain elevator, model a feed mill or a feed distributor.  Grain elevators are very limited, especially a tiny one.  Feed mills/distributors get stuff all year long and get more stuff than an elevator (boxcars, flats with implements, etc).

Since most of your engines are western roads in a 1970's era, the fuel dealer will most likely be oil and LPG/propane/butane.  Not really much coal.

To use the hoppers put in a highway department depot.  They will get crushed rock in hoppers and asphalt in tank cars, plus maybe poles, bridge and guardrail materials in gons (or flats).

A real common industry that was in small towns and is amazingly rarely modeled is a beverage distributor.  Most small towns may not have a hospital but they will have beer.  That gives you an opportunity for boxcars and reefers, for both beer and soda.

A lumber or building material dealer is also a good choice.

Don't make the town too big.  A couple DPM buildings (built 1900's) at the center, a Smalltown USA building on each side (1930's) and then more modern buildings out from there.

Industries can be Pikestuff metal and concrete block buildings.  Nothing over one story, maybe a quonset hut someplace.  Don't pack in the structures, keep it sparse.

1/2 plywood will be fine, quality 1x's are fine for the framing, the clearer the better.  Screw the frame together for strength.  Consider making it two pieces (two 30x60 or a 30x48 and a 30x72) so itf you have to move it will be easier.

framing

On current layout, I used 5/8 and 3/4 plywood for framing.  It is more stable than dimensional lumber.

Ken

1/2 "ply

Yeah, I used 1/2 inch plywood on my recent N scale layout and on my present TT scale layout. With perimeter framing and cross members about 16 in apart it's bullet proof. I used 1 by 4 pine framing because I don't like the grain of sawn plywood, but you could rip ply instead if it appeals to you. I'd arrange the turnouts to stay clear of the layout section joints and minimize the number of tracks crossing a joint.

As to the track plan I'd use wider radius and move the mainline a bit more toward the font edge. Some of the foreground buildings could be placed on spurs  inside the loop instead. I'd also change the long switchback industrial spur to a long double ended siding so the 4 industries could be served from either end....DaveB

Plywood framing

Decent quality plywood ripped into 3” or 4” wide strips is more dimensionally stable and typically more cost effective than stick lumber. At least here in the States, trying to find 1x3 or 1x4 lumber that isn’t already warped takes more time than asking the lumber department to rip a 4x8 sheet into 4” strips. 

Mike in CO

Comments

1/2" plywood would easily be enough - possibly overkill. I think I went with 3/8" under foam for my layout.

Anchor the legs to the benchwork well, and cross-brace the legs to avoid sway when you inevitably bump or lean against it.

Instead of the switchback siding at the top of the switching district, I'd put in back-to-back turnouts and make it two separate sidings. I've seen that in practice more than I have switchbacks where one (or in this case two) industries would be in the way to getting to the other two.

Thanks for the feedback

Thanks for the feedback guys. Lots to ponder. First off, I think I'm happy to go with 1/2" ply, and will rip 3-4" 'boards' for the framing. I notice no-one is keen on the switchback. I'll take that on board.

This is my first layout, and very much a practice platform. I'll probably be trying all sorts of stuff which I'll think better of down the track. At this stage the building is the main aim, plus just some fun running trains and doing some basic switching when I get that far.

To address your specific advice:

Neil: Yes, I've looked at lot of designs. That's part of the problem - analysis paralysis. I decided I wanted to get in and finally build something. i could spend the rest of my life trying to find the best plan. I happened to like the look of this one and it's basically a direct steal with the loop added. And it's simple enough that I could actually get it done.

RickG: Changing the switchback to two stub tracks. Do you mean something like this?

 Dave H: The original plan was just a straight shelf. I added the loop so trains had somewhere to go, so I didn't really want them visible. And I won't really have access from the back (top) of the layout in general use. That's why I won't have a high backdrop: I still need access to the tracks for the inevitable derailments etc. I'll probably put some basic terrain there just for aesthetics.

I see what you mean about canting the oval, but that would require more space, which I haven't really got. The managing Director has already been quite gracious granting me the space she has. The room has to remain usable for other purposes.

Wasn't planning on a coal dealer. Coal hoppers may just "pass through" when the mood strikes me. I've got the cars, I may as well run them from time to time.

Your industry ideas sound good. Again, lots to think about. Some will be determined by kits I purchased some time ago "because I liked 'em".

When you mention the double ended siding, is this what you mean?

I'll let you and RickG debate the relative merits of two stub sidings vs a double-ender. 

I know this is asking a bit, but could you sketch out how you would go about moving those industries from the front of the layout to inside the loop, to increase the loop radius (and maybe allow canting the track so they're not so parallel to the front edge).

I wasn't planning on a big town, just somewhere I could put structures I build while gaining some skills and practice creating scenery.

JeffS: I think cars getting in the way was part of the idea of the original layout. It was built partly as a switching puzzle where visitors could develop switching skills in a variety of situations. The builder had a sequential set of 12 switching scenarios that would cycle through. Assuming you followed the sequence, after the twelfth scenario was complete, the railroad would look as it did at the start of the first scenario, and you could start the sequence again.

Again, thanks for the feedback guys.

Bunnings Plywood

Hi Ron

Given that you are in Melbourne, I would be very wary of using Plywood for the framing.  The stuff that Bunnings sells is cheap but not necessarily particularly good quality.  You really need Cabinet grade marine ply for the frame. 

For the amount of framing you will need, you should be able to pick up some nice straight lengths of pre-primed  or natural finish 20mm x 75mm pine

Concept

Sorry, my thoughts really need an image to illustrate what I mean.  Below is a concept only to illustrate what the intent was.

Finally got back to this.

I finally got back to your various suggestions on my track plan. I had a bit of a play and this is what I have so far.

I followed DaveH's suggestions and replaced the switchback with a double-ended siding, and canted the foreground tracks so they weren't parallel to the front of the benchwork. I did this by removing the siding in the lower left corner of the plan. This allowed me to increase the radiius of the end curves slightly, but they are still a little tight (12" and 11 1/2").

I also lengthened the runaround as per RickG's suggestion.

@ctxmf74: you suggested moving both the outside spurs to inside the loop. I'm OK with this but haven't come up with a way to do it. The spur I removed was going to be a team track, and I'd very much like to include one. The other outside spur was to be a scrap yard, and I'd also very much like to include that somewhere on the plan. The red blobs seem likely places but I don't know how best to incorporate them. Any suggestions would be gratefully accepted. 

The XtrackCad file containing this plan can be found at https://www.dropbox.com/s/068q4t5ctpdliqi/Fall%20Creek%20Branch%20Mk2c.xtc?dl=0

If you want to have a play with the plan, please be my guest. Please remember that the overall size of the layout must stay at 10ft x 2ft 6in and that there will be very limited access to the back of the layout.

Thanks all for your suggestions so far.

Having actually run the Fall

Having actually run the Fall creek branch (it will be back at IRF this year if you are in Sacramento Area) and really enjoying it, to the point where our club made a modified version as a modular switching layout. I'd simply say that your initial design is pretty solid. I wouldn't mod much of anything. MAYBE make your run around a bit longer. I certainly don't see any need for double ended sidings. 

I do like the idea of making the design not parallel to the edge of the layout, but I would caution to make sure you are parallel at any module joints.

As for making it modular, Remember, there's no need for you to make each module the same size. I'd either split it into 2 5' sections or into 3 sections of differing sizes. 

One note on your staging. I agree that you should scenic it. In fact, I'd suggest you add a 2 track engine service spur. Even if it's normally up against the wall and unusable. That makes it possible to operate the area. Maybe add some mid siding switches so you can switch without getting out on the main as well. 

But those are minor ideas. I think the primary switching area is pretty solid as is. 

what size can you transport

The key to module size is, what are you driving. I'd make modules as big as possible that would fit in my vehicle.

 if you plan on leaning on

One half inch is quite strong - 3/4" is over kills.  I've been up on top of my 1/2 inch and solid, let alone lean on it.

From the horses mouth.

YoHo. Great to hear from someone who has actually run the layout. I will take that into consideration. As to splitting up the modules, my current inclination is three modules which will be 3' 2", 3' 4" and 3' 6", as shown by the magenta lines on my plan. I had also considered two five ft. modules. The sizes are determined based on where the turnouts are and also what size timber I can transport. I have a small hatchback so 4' x 8' sheets are out of the question. Even five ft. is a bit of a stretch, but if I get the hardware store to cut down the sheet to more manageable sizes I'm OK. And those sizes also work pretty well for my space.

Mark Charles: As I mentioned above, I drive a hatchback. Here in Oz it's called a Mitsubishi Colt. I don't know what you guys call them, or even if you have them at all, but you get the idea. I don't plan on transporting the modules to shows, but wanted them to be transportable should we move, or if I get a larger land grant (say, if my daughter moves out and I get her bedroom). But physical limits on the lumber sizes I can transport are a definite consideration.

 " I've been up on top of my

Yep, I was climbing all over the top of my 1/2 inch plywood layout top today laying some flextrack..... DaveB

It depends on the 1/2”

It depends on the 1/2” plywood.

If we are talking multiple ply cabinet grade the 1/2” is probably good enough if you stay at 16” oc max.  If you are talking the cheep 5 ply (two almost non existent plays on the outside and three thicker plays in the middle) the you will ultimately regret going with 1/2”. That few of plays is not perticularly stable.  And odds are it will eventually distort in one of several different ways.  And when you are talking HO or smaller trains with RP25 flanges it dis not take much distortion at a turnout to start getting derailments.  I have seen it before.  And the owner blamed everything but his cheap benchwork.

And yes you can stand on you 1/2” benchwork but it is going to flex unless you weigh about 50lbs.  It is the nature of the beast.  1/2” plywood 16” oc is not string enough to hold you average person without some flex.  For that matter unless the framework is ridiculously strong 3/4” is going to flex and odds are even with strong framework it will flex a bit.  You may have not noticed it standing on top of it but it did flex.

As for the person that suggested marine cabinet grease plywood,  why?  That is massive overkill.  And prohibitively expensive.

-Doug M

Well,

the 3/4 may flex when I stand on it, but I'm not generally running trains at that moment.  Unless it flexes and fails to rebound when I get off, I'm okay with it.

Just sayin'

Blair

I agree - it depends... (re: Doug Meyer)

make sure you get PLYWOOD... not what is (here in the US) called Sheathing... it's used as a framing material...  usually the base of a roof.

Don't ask how I know...  just know it was (for me) free as contractor's cut-offs.