Rod-in-a-Tube

Here is the overall plan, and as you can see the staging branches out to three areas, with a goodly number of turnouts all located under a big shelf of main deck above it,...only 8 inches above it !  (actually there is only
7 1/4" between the two as the decks themselves are 3/4" thick)

 

I know there are a significant number of rod-in-tube configurations. I found this just a few minutes ago...
http://www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?threads/unpowered-remote-turnout-controls.27695/
 

Does anyone had more specific experiences with a specific one, and particularly with one for use with Pecos?
BTW I was hoping to keep all controls and wiring for the staging tracks, up on the top of the plywood deck of the staging tracks.

I had an idea

many years ago about using eighth inch nylon tubing.  The kind used to hook up old school mechanical oil pressure gauges in your hot rod.  Slide some solid core steel wire up inside it to connect to the throw bar.  You could run these a long distance and it's probably cheaper than DuBois RC airplane control cables. Just a thought that might be worth trying.

RC rods

You can also use RC airplanes rods; they are in nylon, slide in a plastic tube,you can flex them a bit and they ave a lot of small Anchor avilable to be put on the ends to connect any device.

They slide so easily in the tube, a Servo or a Tortoise can slide them and actuate something which is far or inaccessible for the motor.

A few years ago they where related in a MR articles.

Marc

Brian morning,   I use the

Brian morning,

I use the system you are designing. I use small dinking straws and join them as needed, with thin steel wire thru the straws. Bend the wire to connect to the Peco switch at a 90 degree.

Using a slide DPDT switch which has a throw of the same travel distance (3/16 +-) as the points on the Peco switch. The DPDT switch has 2 sets of contacts, 1 for the frog polarity, the second for a two color LED (Red-Green) that I set up for straight thru and divergent routes.

Wire the Frog and Points as show in http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches.htm

Type 3: Points, frog, and frog rails connected together - not DCC Friendly.

I use Peco insul and electra frog switches. I add jumpers as needed to the Frog and Points  so they are all same polarity powered from the slider switch. I put a 90 degree bend in the control wire to the frog and same to the switch end, drilling a small hole thru the slider knob.

The other half of the DPDT switch  powers the two color LED, power is 3+- volts I get from an old 3-4-5 volt phone charger, ( yard sale cheep)  with a dropping resister to end up with LED lights voltage. Also I add a small ohm resister to the Red LED lead to drop the Red voltage because it is brighter than the Green.

I am away for Fathers Day and will try to post picture when I return.

Another item of concern in your diagram track layout is you have 5 reversing loops. The possibility of two engines entering and exiting the yard at same time is possible. Having 13-14 switches in a one foot space and a 3-way off the helix may be a logistics nightmare for remote controls.

Carter

https://www.ebay.com/itm/10x-Mini-Slide-Switch-6-Pin-2-Position-DPDT-On-On-Slider-Switches-Black-Tiny/172408215766?epid=2061403820&hash=item28245498d6:g:1a4AAOSwPfZZvWen

EBay item

https://www.ebay.com/itm/10x-Mini-Slide-Switch-6-Pin-2-Position-DPDT-On-On-Slider-Switches-Black-Tiny/172408215766?epid=2061403820&hash=item28245498d6:g:1a4AAOSwPfZZvWen

Carter

There are only two rules you

There are only two rules you need to know:

1. Hooke's principles

2. Lever principles

And as this is primarly a electrical switch, it's electrical contacts are used to power up the frog. In second use it's mechanical spring force is used to lay the railroad switch. The thin brass wire is used to transfer the mechanical force and second the springing ability of the wire is used to press the blades gently but firmly against the stock rails.

Lutz

A number of interesting ideas

A number of interesting ideas being presented.

@Lutz
I like that wire thru a plastic tube,...not even a real close fit required.
I believe I also saw reference to utilizing 'florist wire' ?
 

@Carter
Yes I do need to do something about the reversing loop question. I'm somewhat confused about the subject, ....particularly where DCC and multiple lash-up locos are concerned.

Nervous over clearance

I woke up this morning having had nightmares over access to my staging area(s) 'buried' under those large plywood decks  just overhead. I'm going to do a mock-up today to investigate my concerns.


Keep the other turnout control ideas coming.....

This is my preferred method

This is my preferred method of turnout control..it’s pretty self-explanatory but if you have questions ask away.

Far less Nervous

I am far LESS nervous this evening. I did a mock-up this afternoon (very crude), and I am real happy with the way it turned out. I placed a couple of pieces of plywood on my 'outdoor bench' and separated them by 7 1/4". Then placed some random pieces of track and a loco and a tender I had handy. Plenty of space..
    

I then added in a piece of square steel stock that will be utilized in a 'horizontal manner' to support my plywood decks. In this photo example the steel support frame was placed right at the front of the staging access. In reality the staging tracks are recessed back from this sort of steel framing.
 

Then I added 5 tracks as I have planned on my staging...
 

Looks like I could get away with only 12-13 inches of staging depth from the side walls of the shed.

Reverse Sections

Brian,

You mentioned that you need to look into wiring for reverse sections.

Here's a whack at it. Compare my other whack on page 3 of this thread.

Double gaps in rails at points J and K on each loop.

Distance from J to K on each track must be long enough to hold your longest train.

All blue tracks can be fed by the same main circuit.*

Red section of each loop is a reverse section with its own autoreverser that reacts to the blue circuit. If blue tracks are fed by different boosters, then each autoreverser must connect its MAIN terminal to the blue track its red track connects with.

Separate reversing sections with their electronics looks expensive, but it greatly reduces the risk of more than one train crossing a gap at the same time. Each such event can ruin an autoreverser, so why not just get five to begin with?

*With five balloons that could hold two trains each, plus the stub-end yard, that's a lot of locos drawing current. BIG BOOSTER. OR you could have two or three boosters: maybe one for stub yard and the inside balloon, and one or two more for the other balloons. This greatly reduces chances of overloading a booster, which causes shutdown.

It looks like you have a 3-way turnout at the beginning of your throat. My diagram suggests changing to two normal turnouts, for easier control and further to reduce chances of two trains entering the same section. Turnout A is a spring switch. Normal travel entering from the points end is straight thru. Trains entering from the reverse sections will move the points against the light pressure of the spring which otherwise holds the points in the straight position. All movement thru the loops is counterclockwise.

To do this you'll probably have to remove the spring in the PECO turnout and then rig a spring to hold the points in the one position. Once it's working, no control rod is needed, unless you decide that sometime you may want to run a train from the points end.thru the diverging route.

Hope this helps.

DrJolS

Gene - glad to see my old

Brian.....

on your switch linkage, the Fast Tracks Bullfrog control rod kit is a tube in a tube linkage. Easy to cut to length & manipulate to install. Although I used them under my layout, seems like you should be able to use them in your application.       The red tubes are the control linkages.......

Yes it is the drawing of your

Yes it is the drawing of your system that I got from you Jack...and to me it is still the simplest and most cost-efficient way of under the table switching around.

Spoke and choc-blok

Shortliner/Genetk44, I have not seen terminal blocks that would allow a shaft to slide through them, can you provide a picture of those and/or part number/name?

Thanks,

Jim....I don’t know how

 Jim....I don’t know how common they are in the US....I’ve had to search for them here in Canada.

30secs with Mouser says...

Dear US "choc block" curious,

When a UK modeller says "Choc Bloc" connector, they mean "molex screw terminal", a la

https://www.mouser.com/Connectors/Terminal-Blocks/_/N-7rqalZ1ya6imr?Keyword=screw+terminal&FS=True

https://www.mouser.com/Connectors/Terminal-Blocks/_/N-7rqalZ1ya6imq?Keyword=screw+terminal&FS=True

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Great link Prof.

thank you sir.

Thanks

All thanks for the info on the choc block, I have seen that type of terminal block, but did not know they were open to allow a rod to slide through.

Reversing Sections

Thanks DrJolS,

I'll have a closer look at that info after I try to get some early work done outside to beat the afternoon/evening thunderstorms

The clearance...

Brian,

Couple of things I question, if I may. First, is that the minimum amount of clearance you have? I have 12" clearance between levels, less 3/16" for the cork roadbed on the plywood, then the track. Unless you're like me (small hands), you're banking on the switch never having issues. Yes, Peco switches are reliable, but there is the 'what if' that you always need to think about. Second, with that access, why not use the Peco switch machines, if I may ask? I know they're more money, but they are reliable. every other manual (and some with electrical) type throw still need you to reach them and work on them. 

Neal

@Brian

Brian, like Neal suggested, the Peco switch machines are an excellent suggestion.  I have one hidden turnout and I installed one of their "top" (side mount) switch machines (they also make an "under" mount machine).  The side mount machines are not very big - think Atlas switch machines, but much smaller.  Works flawlessly.  You need to buy their capacitor discharge system too, to make sure you have enough "oomph" to switch the points, but it isn't expensive.  

On my current layout that I'm building, I made the decision early on to just go "all Peco" - track, turnouts, crossings, switch machines, etc.  No more trying to make the various manufacturers components fit together (think different rail web sizes, etc).  Really glad I made that decision.

Al Carter

Another Whack at Reverse Loop

Compare to my earlier post on Page 2 of this thread.

This shows a simple reverse section set-up that requires no electronic reversing sections. All the green is reversing section. Double gaps in both rails are at both legs of Turnout A. A DPDT switch aligns polarity of the rails depending on which way the turnout is thrown,

If the DPDT is a slide switch, an activator rod from its handle can move the points of the turnout.

In this diagram maroon - MAIN - and green - REVERSING -show the center lines of the tracks. RED and BLACK show the power busses for MAIN. Orange and BLUE show busses for REVERSING.

Advantages-

There is no concern about more than one train crossing the gaps, unless somebody insists on running a train thru the turnout while another train is using it in the other direction.

Simple electronics, with no dependence on circuit cards for auto-reversing.

Disadvantage:

Five balloon track plus the entire stub-end yard are on one circuit. With lots of locos "cooking" the current demand can be large. Big Booster.  OR  individual tracks can be equipped with OFF /ON toggles or pushbuttons so that only the track being used is alive at any time.

More than one booster can be used for the GREEN tracks, but that could be complicated.

DrJolS

Peco Switch Machines

@Neil & Al

I have a good number of those PL10 under the switch twin coil machines that I had (have) considered mounting under my staging turnouts. Interestingly they are about 3/4" deep, as would fit flush up under my 3/4 plywood staging deck. And a good size round hole could be easily drilled under each turnout. (BTW, no cork roadbed in my staging areas,...why anyway)

I did a little bit of searching and found this interesting subject thread where a forum member (Riogrande Jim) did a lot of interesting research on this very subject of utilizing Peco turnouts in his staging tracks. I need to do some more reading here.

Peco Switch Machines
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/p/229460/2563136.aspx?page=1

I wonder about the top (side mount) Peco machines. Aren't they just about the same thing as the older Atlas twin coil machines? In fact wouldn't the older Atlas machines work was well??

I was disappointed in the relatively high price of those side mount Peco units,...over half the price of the turnouts themselves.

To my knowledge the primary problem with these twin coil machines was 'burning them out' by leaving the current to them on for too long a period of time via the switches utilized to control them. The CDU's eliminated these problems and made the twin coil machines reliable ??