I hope your turnouts...

turn out!!!  Pun intended!

Have a good.

Nick

Pictures

Do you have pictures of the turnout? I would like to see how it came out as I am contemplating building some using the same technique with the paper template and PC board ties. I was going to attempt this without the fast tracks tools. How difficult do you think that would be in comparison?

Loving Life in Northern Colorado

Dale

PC board?

Just a question:   Why are you using PC board ties?

I used PC board ties back when I belonged to the Houston Society of Model Engineers and I would make turnouts at home during the week, then take them to the club layout on meeting nights to lay them.  Since then I haven't used them and just laid them in place.

Just wondering what the advantage was of using PC board ties if you are putting them on your home layout.

@manofkountry- Fast Track jigs

The Fast Track filling jigs are not cheap, but in my opinion, they are a huge difference maker.  People do make good turnouts without them, but using the jigs saves a lot of time and perhaps more importantly, can give you more consistent and accurate results.  Greg alluded to the fact that he did not use the "stock aid" filing jig and that this made things more difficult.

I would say that if you can afford the Fast Track jigs, use them.  I have built about 20 turnouts and for all of them I have used the stock aid, point/frog jigs, and the frog soldering aid.

Building turnouts has been a very satisfying part of the hobby for me.

Dennis

@Dave

The why is that I can build the turnouts at my desk and then lay them on the layout. I am not a fan of spiking rail. I have tried that as well. I am using 1/2" ply as my subroadbed and cork as roadbed. Those are not good spike holding materials either. I considered hand laying all my rail and looked into homabed (or whatever it's being called right now) and found the expense prohibitive. 

Speaking of expense, my wife has noticed the amount of time I have into this turnout. I know I will get better and faster at it but she asked if everyone does this. I told her no, but that a good commercial turnout is expensive and I need 20 of them. That made sense but she did say my time is worth something too. That said my budget for model railroading wouldn't allow commercial turnouts or at least it would take a long time to acquire them. 

Here's some pics.

Looking at the pictures...

I use a FastTracks jig and the point/frog tool. I don't have the stock rail tool. I have built turnouts using paper templates and have built a few in place. Amazingly they all worked.

I don't have much trouble filing the stock rails but I don't file the rail head. I just file down the rail base to the web and taper it out to come close to following the closure rails. It works for me. I'm sure the stock rail tool would make it faster. And no, the filing is not vertical and it works.  Time is not much of an issue for me.

It looks to me like you may find wheel flanges picking the frog point on the diverging route. The picture looks like the frog point isn't quite centered. I know this can be an issue because I had a problem with this on one of the 10 turnouts I built for the TOMA module I'm working on currently.

Not trying to be critical just helpful and maybe make it a little simpler. It can seem like it could be hard and complicated but it really isn't. And practice, no mater your basic method, will make for ever better results.

@Ken

Yes, I see what you mean about the frog not being centered. I didn't notice that before. I do need to work on the stock rail technique. Perhaps I am filing too much of the rail and not enough of just the base. This one probably won't make it to the layout, but be used to test my servo mounting and frog wiring. Last thing I need is balky turnouts on the layout. All part of the fun of learning, I thank you for your tips.

Looks pretty good to me...

However, when I built mine I didn't file into the stock railhead, just the lower flange. I made a stock-aid knockoff out of a piece of plywood. I cut a grove into the ply with a razor saw, then clamped the rail on its side with clothespins. The groove was close to the edge of the ply so I could file at an angle. The official stock-aid works pretty much the same way.

I did use a Fast Tracks pointform tool to get a clean frog and knife edges on the points.

I also use the jig, but that is on account of my shaky hands.

pqe

Thanks pqe, I think I need

Thanks pqe, I think I need stock rail work the most. I was just looking at it and it doesn't look right. Not to mention I am throwing the gauge way out in that area. Thanks for the tip on the homemade stock aid.

One thing's for sure. Hand laid is the only way to get smooth frogs with no drop. I only have experience with Peco and Atlas turnouts and none are as smooth as these hand laid ones. 

Post a pdf

​If I could figure out how to post a link to a pdf doc, I would post the notes from my handlaying switch clinic.  I have it in my account, but can't figure out how to let y'all see it.

The NMRA Gauge is your friend

As Ken said, the photo does make it look like the flangeway clearance for the diverging route at the frog is a problem.  Maybe it is just the angle of the camera.

But: I found after building my first turnout that checking _everything_ with the NMRA gauge makes for a trouble-free turnout.  Use it to check track gauge (which I found can be tricky for the diverging route just past the points), check gauge and flangeway clearance which both contribute to putting the frog, guard rails and the extensions of the closure rails that serve as the wing rails in the right places.  I learned this from Joe Fugate's various threads about building turnouts.

Another tip:  this is "belt and suspenders" stuff, but it is quick and easy: file a center gap on the bottom of each pcb tie, just as you have filed one on the top.  In the rare case that a short develops between the pcb foil on the top and on the bottom, this extra gap protects you.  I read about this in some issue of MRR where David Popp discussed troubleshooting a short on a layout that proved to be exactly this problem with a pcb tie.  I have seen when filing pcb ties that sometimes stray bits of copper foil end up in unwanted places.  So, why not?

Aha- speaking of shorts, I think I see a problem.  2nd photo from the top: The tie immediately to the left of the left gap you cut for the frog does not seem to have a gap in the narrow space between the closure rails.  It needs one!

Final comment: my personal preference for appearance sake and also performance is to bend and bevel the approach to both ends of the guard rails.  In your photos, it seems you bent but did not bevel your guard rails as you did with your wing rails.

I think you will find that by your second turnout you will be making a superior product.  And yes, I think they perform and look much better than what you can buy.  Time spent goes down with practice, but as often been said on this forum "who cares about time if you are enjoying it?"

Dennis

PDFs

I'd like to see that Dave. The version of Adobe I have has an export to jpg feature. Could you use that and post an image? Or is it too many pages? This forum could certainly use a files area.

Of gaps and stuff

Dennis,

Good point on the bottom gaps. On production turnouts I will be sure to do that. The gap that looks like it is missing is there, I just didn't center it well and it is right beside the rail. Meter shows no connection between rails. I agree, I missed the bevel on those guard rails. 

Critique of your first handlaid turnouts

Permit me to do a bit of critique on your first handlaid turnouts.

First, way to go! I think THIS is the way to get spot-on-spec turnouts.

That said, I also have a passion that I share with Andy Richert of Proto87 shops to see that model turnouts look more like real turnouts. I'm not super picky, but there are simple things we can do to bring handlaid turnouts a lot closer to looking like the real thing.

Specifically, your guard rails look like toy train guard rails, not prototype guard rails. Here is a prototype photo of a typical US turnout and if you look, almost all prototype turnouts have guard rails that look like this photo:

Note the guard rails have only a slight bend on the ends. See one of my handlaid turnouts on Central Valley turnout ties -- pay particular attention to the look of the guard rails:

The NMRA has a recommended practice for forming guard rails RP13.8:

I use the bend-and-bevel method to create just a slight flare on the end of the guard rail and then I file a small flare in the railhead. I also do the end chamfer they recommend.

As you can see from my turnout photo, the result looks very much like most prototype turnout guard rails in the US. If you're going to bother handlaying turnouts, you might as well make them more like a model of the prototype as to looks. You're not out anything and they really look nice when you do that.

Guard rails are the one area where modelers tend to miss it the most (and the commercial vendors do too), making the turnouts look like toy train track rather than real turnouts. 

Guardrails

Older guard rails tend to be longer and have flared ends.  Mine will have those because I am using 1900 era patterns.  Newer guardrails tend to be shorter and have a taper rather than a flare.

Switch Clinic

Here is the presentation for a switch building clinic I did at the Mid Continent Regional NMRA Convention.  I have tried a dozen different methods (including build them on the workbench using PC ties.) 

I currently have 98 handlaid switches on my current layout.  I started track laying about 2 1/2 years ago.  Once you get the flow, its pretty easy.  I reduced and photocopied prototype switch plans (I have RDG plans down to a #3).  I use the plans to locate the switches and position the ties.  I will mark the point of frog with a colored pencil on the tie.  I then ballast over the ties (and the pattern).  If I need to find where something goes I can get the general idea by using another plan.  I work very leisurely and it takes me a couple hours to build a switch in place.

I have been using code 55 and 70 rail and started using the ME micro spikes.  I use a 1" vertical belt sander to sand the points and frogs.

This is MY way of doing it, it is by no means the only way and I won't even say its the best way.  But it does work.

Powerpoint version:

/sites/model-railroad-hobbyist.com/files/users/dave1905files/Switches3.ppt

Pdf version:

/sites/model-railroad-hobbyist.com/files/users/dave1905files/SwitchClinic.pdf

Guardrails

WOW, something I never really looked at. I'll research further and next try will have a more prototypical look. Doing some searches on the internet I've seen some hand laid turnouts with guardrails like mine and I see now they look nothing like the prototype. Good stuff.

Point and stock rails

Dave, very helpful to see how you shape the stock and point rails. Thank you. 

pictures

I agree with kfglover comments . My first took a long time and did not look pretty, but they did improve and work great. As far as time goes it is part of the fun of building your own. Have fun . Daryl 

Maintenance of Way and Structures

There are several good early 1900's references available, but I like Maintenance of Way and Structures By William Clyde Willard (1915). It is available for reading and download on Google Books. Chapter XVI covers Switches, Frogs and Turnouts (p. 3110. Section 223. Gaurd-rails starts on page 322; however, a review of the drawing in the Switches, Frogs and Turnouts chapter shows a lot of track component variations. Fig. 179 shows rails with almost no bends on one end and significant bends on the other. The discussion on guard rails does not say anything specifically about the angle or length of bends, but dose state: The angle of flare of the ends should be small to reduce the shock of blows received from wheelflanges. The maximum flare at the ends should be not less than 3-1/2 in., or twice the width of the standard flangeway, which is 1% in. for a gage of 4 ft. 8\i in. 

So how you build your turnouts will depend upon the railroad and era you are modeling.