duckdogger

More of the Same, But Different

Time to assign some power to an early 60’s Southern Pacific passenger train. One loco will be a Life Like era Proto 2000 E8 in Black Widow. As on the UP e-units, the Kato motor transplant, drive line upgrades, truck tuning, LED lights, and Tsunami 2 are the same. The choice of speakers and mounting are different. More follows

Reply 1
duckdogger

The Rest of the Story

The other locomotive for this train is a late run, redesigned Walthers Proto E7A. It has the greatly improved truck design featuring helical cut gears and improved axle bearing design. Other improvements are the motor, smaller flywheels, and simplified frame incorporating speaker mounting locations fore and aft. The body shell detail is a whole new paradigm of separately applied details including the roof.

(I came across this gem at the local train store and the owner offered me a deal I could not refuse. It came with factory installed QSI sound. Compared with the QSI in my Atlas SDP35, this one was less than exciting. No fear as it will be replaced with a T2. This unit will also receive new speakers and a conversion to the SP Bloody Nose paint scheme.

Black Widow E8

As with previous P2K units, the Black Widow’s trucks are disassembled and new Walther 920-584494 geared wheelsets installed. These are specifically made to repair older Protos with cracked gears. While working in the trucks, I trimmed the molded brake shoe detail to remove any source of friction against the wheels. Ditto replacing the worm gear with Athearn part 34128 as it meshes better with the replacement #12032 Aline-PPW hex drive shafts.

.New Motor Coming Up, Again

As I have more P2K Es to do, I purchased a Dremel 4000 and flexible drive shaft to modifiy the interior of the fuel tank for the Kato motor. Wow, was that quick and easy. The new E’s have holes in the frame bottom for sound to escape so after machining the fuel tank, I added holes in the Black Widow frame with a metal capable drill bit. Not pretty but they function.

%20sound.JPG 

Let There Be Light

As on past vintage Es, I utilized the original clear light molding attached to the front of the cab interior to mount 2mm (or 3 mm, if you prefer) warm white LEDs for the head light and Gyralight. 0603 SMD LEDs were added for the number boards. I drilled a small hole in the front lens which sits behind the number board area of the shell. I used a small flat file to create a slot so the LED would sit slightly recessed,

With four lights, that is eight wires and four 1K resistors to be managed along with shrink tube. Fortunately, Proto E-unit lights are mounted to the frame so removing the shell does not result in long wire snake on the loose. But on some locos, it could. Either way, long wire leads are just problematic but there is a better way.

The answer is to create a PCB lighting board like the former Ulrich lighting resistor board. In this instance, I cut a small square piece of thin copper clad PCB which I glued to the top of the rear partition of the P2K cab. The power feed from the Tsunami 2 front light common provides the power. On the front side of the PCB board I mounted the four 1K resistors. The common leads from the four LEDs are soldered to the resistors. To diminish the visual impact, I painted the resistors and wires black. The longer function wires were routed to their roper pad on the decoder.

PCb.JPG 

Sound Considerations

I am always looking for better sound. Aren’t we all? In the past I have used RailMasters Hobbies DHB27-8 (others have similar versions) but the challenge is the side located terminals make fitment into many of the available enclosures less than ideal. But I recently discovered a little gem at Litchfield Station made for this speaker. Their SPENC-27H16R. It has a shallow cavity (more like an engineered dent) which accommodates the lead connection while allowing the speaker to nest properly in the enclosure. Once the speaker wire is applied, a little pressure will move the attachment tips inward to more easily fit inside the enclosure.

DHB27-8.JPG nstalled.JPG 

These enclosures could be mounted to the interior roof with acrylic silicone but then we have created an umbilical cord when removing the shell for any reason. I mounted the speakers on a perch so they clear the drive shaft. In the past I have used styrene tubing cut to the appropriate height (.375”), but this time I used a flexible dense foam which provides speaker isolation from the frame. Silicone secures the pad to the frame and the speaker to the pad.

As this is a T2, tune with the equalizer. The values I used for this arrangement are:

CV225 7 (user specified), CV226 0, CV227 0, CV228 192, CV 229 117, CV230 24, CV231 106,

CV232 105

%20frame.JPG 

Improved Walthers Proto E7

Body Preperations

I used the Scalecoat paint stripper to remove the really thick factory paint; emphasis on thick. It took multiple soakings and tooth brush scrubbings to remove the paint. Before removing the paint, I removed all the glazing. The newer Proto shells incorporate flush fitting glazing with an inner lip which is lightly cemented to the inside of the shell. A #11 tip easily removed the glazing without damage.

On the E7, there are several etched brass screens which cover what would be air intake openings on the prototype. The screens are attached to the shell with “fingers” which fit into tiny slots in the shell wall. The protruding lip is bent over to secure the screen. Again, a #11 tip straightens them so the screen can be easily removed. Once free, use small needle nose pliers to straighten the fingers for easy insertion when painting and decaling are complete.

IMG_1591.JPG   20screen.JPG 

The prototype E bodies were structural and not a mere shell as on later F/FP 45s, Walthers simulates the structural framing on their shell and is visible behind the brass screens.OCD kicks in and I choose to open the area between the simulated framing for a see through effect. I used the Dremel and a 3/32” dia. drill bit to make the initial penetration. I followed this with a metal Dremel deburring bit and working very slowly.

As shown, there were at least 2 areas I considered too small to open at the risk of trashing a shell. Close enough, as Allen McClelland would say.

IMG_1628.JPG   IMG_1653.JPG 

IMG_1629.JPG   IMG_1654.JPG 

On the older Proto Es, such as the Black Widow E, there were two actual openings and the rest were implied detail behind the etched grills. After looking at prototype photos via a Google search, I chose to not worry about it on the Black Widow. On the previous UP units, I added a weathered black wash to imply an opening and it looked good.

IMG_1685.JPG 

E7 lights

The newer Protos come with 2mm LEDs for the headlight, Gyralight (as appropriate), and number board lights. The task is to decipher the factory wiring in their PCB so it can be adapted to our use. Fortunately, the board notes which leg is positive.

I attached my power feed to the common (positive) and the appropriate function wire to the other leg. As the Proto lights are tied together differently than my plan, I snipped the common leg. I soldered my appropriate common wire to that leg. Again, I used PCB board to simplify the wire management. I painted the wires, resistors, and PCB board in GM interior green to make them less conspicuous.

IMG_1676.JPG 

New Paint and Added Details

Paint was Modelflex SP Dark Gray for the body and Scarlet for the nose. The decals were Microscale, and I must say, greatly improved over the last Bloody Nose decals I installed. Easily floated off the backing and very opaque. After decaling, suitable misted coatings of Dullcote hid the film and will provide grip for the weathering powders.

I added nose grabs, visually neater horns, air deflector/mirrors, MU hoses, uncoupling levers, sun visors, and cab awnings to both units.

The nose grabs are on the fireman’s side so I made a template out of Tamiya tape. The tape on the pilot marks the drill points for the uncoupling levers.

IMG_1655.JPG 

After positioning, I used a T-pin to mark the location and then drilled the hole with a number 77 bit (allows a bit more wiggle room for fitting the Tichy double bend grab irons. I secure them from inside the shell with CA and after dry, filed them smooth to avoid interference with the shell.

IMG_1677.JPG    IMG_1679.JPG 

The Proto number board is so small (how small is it?......), that my eyes rebelled at trying to put in a  4-digit number so I cheated and used a fictitious train number as SP did once upon a time. Modelers license; so sue me. And the number is straight. Must be the iPhone camera angle?

Tsunami 2

Good news, as I mentioned, the design of the revised Proto frame incorporates down-firing speaker mounting locations. Bad news is they are a wee bit larger than the standard 28mm and the depth will not accept the deeper enclosure as used on the Black Widow. Hello Mr. Coke cap and RailMaster Hobbies RND 28. No problem here.

On previous locos which are consisted, I have invested time in tweaking the CV 2,3,4,5, and 6 settings so the locos played well together. Not here. These locos were within 1 speed step of each other from the beginning through the first 35 speed steps (128 speed step setting). Only minor pre-running tweaks to the BMEF CVs 211 and 215 as suggested by Soundtraxx but nothing else.

I like the ability to fine tune the lights as to brightness and when they are on especially when consisted. For instance, I want the number board lights to be on regardless of directions of travel and whether consisted or not. No problem on DecoderPro and the T2.

I used dry pigment for the weathering sealed with Dullcote. Just enough that they would appear well used but not forgotten orphans. A video follows.

Reply 1
duckdogger

Video

 

Reply 1
SP Steve

Rare model

Those Proto 2000 Black Widow E units are rare.  I had a chance to buy one several years ago and passed, I haven't seen one since.  I think only 1 E9 was painted as a Black Widow by SP and it didn't stay in that scheme long.  Cool to have one on your layout!

Reply 0
duckdogger

6048 in 1958

Yep. 6048 is an accurate number for a Black Widow E9. I think the paint scheme only lasted about 12 months. 

Reply 0
joef

Practical examples

That's what I love to see, Paul -- practical examples with meaty detail. It also sounds like you're making good use of the Tsunami2 equalizer. When it comes to sound, that's one advantage the Tsunami's have over all the other decoders -- an equalizer. Do you find it makes much difference being able to use the equalizer? Is it enough of a difference that it's a deal breaker for you over other sound decoder brands?

Joe Fugate​
Publisher, Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine

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Read my blog

Reply 1
SP Steve

Video

I just watched the video and the Black Widow in the long E platform looks fantastic (the Bloody Nose looks great as well) I appreciate your hard work bringing the detail up on these beautiful models!  The locos sound great, nice job with the sound!  Beautiful layout, I don't have space for passenger trains, so I'll never have any of that hardware but I like seeing them run when well done like that.

Reply 0
duckdogger

@joef

The equalizer is the critical difference for me. Among the big 2, my opinion is there is parity on the motor control and other operational facets such as manual notching, straight to 8, multiple auxiliary lighting outputs, etc..

The differentiation is being able to sculpt the sound to the installation environment. We have a growing roster of incredible speakers from companies such as Rail Masters Hobbies, TVW Miniatures, Zima, Scale Sound Systems, and more so why not advantage them in every way we can. 

Reply 0
Prof_Klyzlr

Answers...

Dear Joe,

Admitedly I'm not Duck, but...

Quote:

Do you find it makes much difference being able to use the equalizer?

Yes, EQ is to audio what paint is to visual/physical modelling...
(IE it is a foundation "101 level" modelling tool).

Quote:

Is it enough of a difference that it's a deal breaker for you over other sound decoder brands?

Absolutely Yes. When we start from a position of not-having a fundamental audio tool available, IE EQ,
we are trying to solve a problem (improved frequency response/reproduction within a scale-locomotive installation) with the aural equivalent of both-arms and one-leg amputated...

(Try building a "looks right under my specific layout lighting" model
without the ability to use any form of paint or coloring,
let alone the correct hue of paint to match/compensate for the viewing-environment illumination-source white-balance...).

No-one expects the decoder manufacturers to produced multiple sound-set versions of a given loco,
where each "version" is optimised for a given speaker or frequency range. However, by having an effective EQ stage within the decoder, the one sound-set/decoder can be tweaked (EQ adjusted) to be "compatible" with a wide variety of speakers/enclosures + mounting installations + venting configurations.
(IE many of the commonly-held "...there's nothing that can be done about it..." factors of an onboard installation can be compensated for, if only for the want of a functional EQ stage!).

This would IMHO be a "win" for the Manufs, as they would not have to fight an unwinnable-war
RE "what speaker do we reccomend for decoder/sound-set X?"
(I can think of some reasons why Manufs might want to artificially "limit" the range of "compatible speakers",
and I can also think of some reasons why they might not care less what speaker the modeller chooses to team with their decoder...)

and would be a win for the modeller asit would open the door to a wider range of size, freq-response, and format speakers/enclosures...

That EQ is a fundamental tool in any audio "sound design" and signal-path cannot be overstated,
and it's omission from applications,
where "optimised finescale miniature reproduction of a known prototype" is the basic reason-for-being,
continues to be a puzzlement...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

PS The Music Industry struggles daily with producing "one version of a audio signal"/song which will "sound right" on everything from 1/4" earbuds thru to stadium-sized PAs, the "Audio Professionals" get paid to confront that struggle, and they simply would not even start the battle without arming themselves with a usable EQ stage...

Reply 1
duckdogger

@SP Steve

Thank you for your comments. While I have had large layouts in a previous life, what you see in my videos is in a 13 x 14 room. I like the photography aspect of our hobby so my first scenic efforts were to create suitable staging for videos  

On the MRH Podcast, we have briefly discussed the “one town” theme for railroads where space is limited. In this context, my focus is on scenery detail depth we will be talking more about this on future podcasts. Again, thank you for your compliments. 

Reply 0
duckdogger

@ Prof Klyzlr

Several years ago, you responded to one of my videos on sugar cube applications with suggestions for tuning the sound. You were dead on target and I continue to use your suggestions as guidelines when tuning my speakers. Thank you for your contributions. 

Reply 1
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