gopernoper

So, I had a funny thought the other day.

You all know of the tinplate classics from Lionel in the early 1900’s and depression era leading up to WWII. As most are aware, MTH makes modern reproductions of the models in both O Gauge and Standard Gauge. What if MTH were to scale these reproductions to HO? I think that tinplate is beautiful and I would love to have an operating example on my HO layout. I know this is purely hypothetical, but what do you guys think?

-William

 I thought my window was down, but I found out it was up when I put my head through it.

 

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nachoman

Interesting thought...

I could see this as something that could sell...

Kevin

See my HOn3 Shapeways creations!  Christmas ornaments too!

https://www.shapeways.com/shops/kevin-s-model-train-detail-parts

 

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Rasselmag

Buy Märklin H0

You will get a lot of genuine tinplate.

Lutz

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gopernoper

Marklin

Not really interested in Marklin. I'm thinking like an HO blue comet set, or like an Ives set. Anyone else have input or an opinion?

 

-William

 I thought my window was down, but I found out it was up when I put my head through it.

 

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Oztrainz

You'd be battling...

Hi William and all,

I think you may be battling finding suitable feedstock to make these types of models today. The number of tinplate lines worldwide is way down on what it was even 10 years ago. I was working on the last one in the Southern Hemisphere when it closed almost 10 years ago.

Traditionally the tinplate toys were made from "seconds" from the tinplate process. Often you had stretches of coil that suffered imperfections in chemical or mechanical properties that caused rejection of that part of the coil for food grade applications. In the mid 1970's  we sold a lot of "seconds" into Asia where the timplate sheets were stamped and painted into toys of all shapes and sizes. The "seconds" were also considerably chaeper than the food grade tinplate product. 

Initially the shearing and sorting for quality was done at the tinplate plant. From about the mid-1970's on the traditional usage areas for tinplate was being undercut by other packaging materials and the canneries stated to take over the shearing process themselves. In the late 1980's there were only 4 tinplate lines worldwide that could offer suitable tinplate for 2-piece can manufacture that could compete with the aluminium beer/softdrink can. The place I worked at was one of them.  

Also the thickness of the steel under the tinplate has decreased markedly since the 1970's. In the 1970's a soft-drink can was usually 0.21 mm thick, fruit cans were about 0.30 mm thick with some decorated ovenware running to 0.60 mm thick as the thickest tinplate we made. When the line closed in the ealy 2000's drink cans were down to .018 mm thick and in 6 months I didn't see one order thicker than 0.030 mm  This means that todays tinplate is thinner, less strong and less durable as a "toy" than the tinplate of yesteryear. 

Also the advances in computer control of the tinplating process, rolling practices and steelmake quality since the 1970's meant that overall the amount of defective material that would be classed as "seconds" was also way down when the tinplate line closed. The improvements in quality mean that feedstock for "toy" type applications would be scarce unless you wanted to buy a premium product at a premium price in coils of about 30 tons each. 

You would have to stamp out a lot of timplate wagons to use just one of these coils (assuming you could find a works that would sell you "just one" coil. For the steelworks I was at the minimum order size was at least 50 tons, which would equate to at least 2 coils. 

Also advances in the amount of detail afforded by resins/plastics have outstripped the capability of tinplate as a material to produce on a model.  

While the idea of printed/lithographed tinplate wagons might have some personal appeal. the harsh realities of where tinplate is placed as a product and the other economic factors mentioned, to which you would then have to add the development costs of the dies to form up these wagons and the costs of printing/paining these wagons and locomotives. In short I think that there are a lot of reasons why tinplate wagons are no longer the "weapon of choice" for our hobby manufacturers. If such an idea went ahead, my feeling is that it would be to a very limited market and be very expensive "nostalgia".  

Regards,

John Garaty

Unanderra in oz

Read my Blog

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Warflight

Blue Comet...

I'm almost 50... but ever since I was a child, watching the Little Rascals Christmas special, I have wanted a Blue Comet HO set.

Hell, in my 20s, I bought the Tyco "Royal Blue" engine because I had every intention of MAKING a facsimile of a Blue comet set in HO.

You know, "retro" is all the rage right now in toys... retro action figures... retro bobble heads... I have a friend who keeps bringing "Hipsters" over to my house, and the "Hipsters" go NUTS over my layout, and especially the cheap little toy trains on the wall... and the Hipsters that I see at the model railroad museum tend to gravitate towards the "Toy Train" room, and i hear them talk about "three rail but smaller", like it's something they would dig... so yeah... if marketed outside of model railroaders... if it was marketed to the "collectors" and "action figure" and "retro" folks, I think an HO Tinplate line would make someone BANK.

The problem is, and it's like this in most of the toy world... is that "nobody has done this before" and so nobody wants to be the first. It's why every toy company rejected Star Wars in 1977, until the "unknown" guys in Ohio took a chance. It's why everyone had to be drunk when creating "He-Man" figures. (I've been watching some toy documentaries lately)

So yeah, I see a market for HO, and even N scale "tin plate retro style" trains... and if it was marketed OUTSIDE of us modelers, to the general public, and the "Hipster" and "Geek Centric" collectors, it could go gang busters. People will want them for themselves to decorate their apartments, or homes... people will want them for their kids, or grand kids... for the same reason why people want record players again... and those crapy stiff action figures.

I doubt any manufacturer would take that chance. (Kato maybe? Japanese companies take chances and embrace retro trends)

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ctxmf74

Tinplate

Seems like it's appeal is highly related to it's size. A small scale version just wouldn't have the same presence as the big old toy trains. Lego,Brio, and Thomas the tank trains have probably taken over the niche that tinplate filled in the old days so I doubt there'd be many buyers of small scale tinplate.....DaveB

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thewizard

I'd buy a novelty set. I'm

I'd buy a novelty set. I'm all for something that doesn't have parts that fall off when you look at it the wrong way.

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