trainmaster247

I am wondering two things here with these cars they seem like fairly decent models for not such a bad price but was wondering experience both building and running them along with finding a large amount for a decent price maybe 5 or more for 50 dollars or less. I know ebay has some but they seem to be going for around 20 for one kit. Then an idea is 3D printing a container car then vaccum forming others (I have access to both types of machines) the vacuum would be cheaper and take much less time than printing many of the containers since I would need a bunch but was wondering if it could really get such detail. 

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jeffshultz

I wouldn't expect a great deal of detail from Vacuforming

It seems to me that any material you could vacuform to get decent details through would necessarily be thin and flimsy. And you can't get the bottom done at the same time, right?

3D printing would be slow and potentially expensive in supplies.

Also, are the Impack's set up to take containers, or are they dedicated intermodal trailer cars? The ones I see on Ebay have hitches on them.

orange70.jpg
Jeff Shultz - MRH Technical Assistant
DCC Features Matrix/My blog index
Modeling a fictional GWI shortline combining three separate areas into one freelance-ish railroad.

Reply 0
YoHo

The Athearn model is the as

The Athearn model is the as delivered model that only works for trailers. They were modified (late 80s? Early 90s?) to also hold containers, but you would need to add the details to the kit. Also, I belive at that time the platforms had been modified to look more like later series of spine cars. 

 

Impacks are a good inexpensive options to create a 1980s/90s pig train. And while the ATSF ones would be a little anachronistic, the UTTX models would be a reasonable stand in for a modern pig train. No 53' trailers, but... I'm actually working on a set right now to go with my 199/991 superfleet train. 

 

One other note, container or trailer, you're going to want to have some amount of weight in them.

 

Reply 0
barr_ceo

Vacuform is terrible for detail.

The only way it might help you is to mass-produce one-time use molds for casting in plaster or resin All detail on the outside of a vacuformed model is obscured by at least as much as the thickness of the plastic.

If you want cheap containers, though, you might look into cardstock models There are a lot of them free on the web. I made about 200  forty-foot containers for my own use, and from three feet you can't tell the cardstock containers from the plastic. (Granted, mine are N scale...). Well, on second thought, yes you can tell the difference... the card models look better, in many cases. I was also able to create my own RR branded containers in GIMP (free and open-source, comparable to Photoshop) using a semi-transparent layer over a graphic of plain white containers. Glue some nuts or washers in the bottom to add weight.

http://krafttrains.com/Paper_Struchers_for_Trains/HO/Containers-(HO)/HO_Containers.htm

Reply 0
jimfitch

Yes, the Athearn spine cars

Yes, the Athearn spine cars represent the trailer only Impack cars.  If you want spine trailers which hold trailers and containers, Walthers has spine trailer sets that are correct for that.

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Jim Fitch
northern VA

Reply 0
YoHo

To be clear, Prototype Impack

To be clear, Prototype Impack cars were converted to carry containers, so if your goal is a specific prototype, then you may need to use them and make the modification...or if you want a fleet cheap, then use them and make the mods. Which may not be literally cheaper, but you can trade time for money and spread the cost out. 

Reply 0
jimfitch

Yep.  Here is some basic

Yep.  Here is some basic history posted over at TO:

Quote:

IMPACK is a brand name, spine car is a generic term. Technically, all of the IMPACK cars are spine cars, but that is not true in reverse. 

Some history of the spine car... 

In 1978, ATSF designed and built the 10-unit Fuel Foiler, which was designed for 40' & 45' trailers and run strictly on ATSF, as they were not designed for interchange service. In 1981, Itel (FMC Gunderson) bought the design from Santa Fe and dubbed them "Impack" (Inter Modal PACKage). Itel sold the cars in various configurations, 3-, 4-, 5-, 8- and 10-unit configurations. ACF and Thrall also built similar designs. Aside from Trailer Train (reporting marks were UTTX originally, then TTLX on later designs), BN, SP, and SSW bought these cars. Additionally, they were now designed to handle 40', 45' and 48' trailers. The later TTLX design cars were also able to handle 28' pups. [Athearn and ConCor(?) have produced a version of the early car, which handles 40' and 45' trailers, UTTX.] 

In 1987, the (NTTX) container-only, articulated skeleton car, came along as a five unit set, which is able to handle 20', 40', 45' and 48' containers. The builders of this design included Bethlehem, Trinity and Hyundai. [Alan Curtis produces a brass kit, which is limited in production.] 

In 1988, the All-Purpose spine car was released with the design to handle 48' trailers/containers, carrying TTAX reporting marks. The end two platforms can carry two 20' containers. Bethlehem, Gunderson, Trinity and Thrall were the builders of choice. [Walthers released this car as a kit and then RTR, but is currently out of production.] 

In 1993, the TTAX all-purpose spine was lengthened to 53' and can carry 28' to 53' trailers. On the two end platforms, there is the capability to carry two 20' containers. Prototype builders are the same. [Alan Curtis has a limited run brass kit available.] 

(Note that AC is getting out of American prototype models and it is my understanding that someone else is taking over at least the N scale line in the near future. AC might be producing one last HO scale car. Production was scheduled to include the TR / TTRX 3-unit 6x28' / 3x57' spine car. Not sure if this is still the case.) 

There have been a fair number of the 48' TTAX cars that have been stretched into 53' TTAX AP spine cars. Additionally, TTX has recently purchased 3-unit 53' AP spine cars, rolling with the TTAX reporting marks. You can find TTLX cars still around, I've seen four sets here in Atlanta within the past year. 

According to someone in this topic on Trainorders, Impack cars were never converted to carry containers but I seem to recall that they were - maybe that person was confusing the Impacks spines with the earlier ATSF fuel foilers, where were similar cars but captive to ATSF rails and ran in 10 unit sets.

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?3,3631980,3631980#msg-3631980

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Jim Fitch
northern VA

Reply 0
YoHo

Some of the ATSF cars were

Some of the ATSF cars were rebuilt to handle COFC I guess I thought more than just 2 sets had had the work. 

 

http://www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?threads/santa-fe-fuel-foilers.17218/

 

Reply 0
trainmaster247

Thanks for the info, all this

Thanks for the info, all this helped alot I knew they were TOFC just didn't bring up my process for that yet and think cardstock may be the best way to go. 

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Reply 0
jimfitch

 I knew they were TOFC just

Quote:

I knew they were TOFC just didn't bring up my process for that yet and think cardstock may be the best way to go. 

Well, technically the Impack's may not be TOFC (Trailer on Flat Car) but rather Trailer on Spine Car.

I gleaned a little more information:

Quote:

If you can find a copy of December 1992 issue of Model Railroading there is an article "Spine Cars - A prototype Overview" by David A. Bontrager.

Additional references:

Model Railroading Dec 97 article called:
"Spine cars part 2: single purpose minority owners" - Author Doug Geiger, MMR.

Book, "Santa Fe Heriatage" by Steven & Cynthia priest, chapter on these cars, plus lots of (mostly publicity) photo's.

Text from the magazine article:

Santa Fe (ATSF) Owner

These were the first successful articulated spine cars that rode on conventional trucks although in captive ATSF service, these cars proved the way for many of the later spine car designs. The first car was an experimental car built by ATSF shop forces in Topeka KS. It could haul six 40' or 45' trailers, five faced the B-end of the car and one faced the A end. The trailers had to be lifted on & off each platform unlike the circus-style loading required of many vans in intermodal service at that time. The hitches were Pullman Standard non retractible. In summer & fall of 1977 this "six pack" car made a splash with the railroad industry if the amount of magazine coverage is any judge. Painted white, the car had a very large air-supply reservoir plus a triple valve and brake reservoir on both the A and B units, and ran quite low to the ground, it carried the number 298999.

The first production run of 10 packs was numbered 298988-298998, built 4/78, coded FT-93, the second was 298946-298987, built 3/80 - 7/80, coded FT-101. The prototype 298999 was rebuilt into a 10-pack in 1981, but kept many of the odd features (upright brake wheel, large platforms) although the brakes were apparently simplified to match the other cars. The cars only had a brake wheel on the B platform. Paint was white and the hitches were highly visible black.

Some modifications happened over time, with the arrival of 102" wide trailers, extensions were added to the platforms, (little triangular bits jutting out) from the pics neither build had them from new, and can only confirm 298965 without them in '84 and 298981 with them in '89.
298965 was rebuilt to haul standard (2x20' or 40' or 45') or A-Stack containers on all the intermediate units (but trailers on the ends) the A stack containers could even be double stacked on this car. This was recoded an FT-103 flat.
298998 was rebuilt to a COFC only car, set up for 2x20'/1x40'/1x45' on each car. It stayed coded as an FT-93.
Both of those cars had a second brake wheel added at the A end of the car when modified.

When repainted most cars lost the "railroad roman" font & got sans-serif Helvetica to match the ATSF practice of the day.
298981 got painted in mineral brown with circle crosses in white. The magazine article also says some cars got the Q logo, but there's no photo's of that.

The article says that as of Feb 92 all TOFC cars were in service, by Feb 96 only 21 remained, and by fall '97 they were all out of use.

There's no mention of them being rejigged in later life, however in '82 ATSF sold the design to Itel, who slightly modified it & started selling it to other railroads in other formats, including:
5 & 10 unit sets to BN
4 & 8 unit sets to SSW

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Jim Fitch
northern VA

Reply 0
YoHo

Jim, what you just quoted is

Jim, what you just quoted is the link I provided. 

Reply 0
jimfitch

Jim, what you just quoted is

Quote:

Jim, what you just quoted is the link I provided.

 I didn't follow your link so didn't know we duplicated each others efforts independantly until you point it out.

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Jim Fitch
northern VA

Reply 0
YoHo

No worries.

No worries.

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