Off to the Races!

On the following diagrams, dashed lines are hidden trackage. The gray grid is one foot squares. Minimum mainline radius is generally 30 inches, but a couple of the branches (Lander and Cody) have 28" curves in a couple of spots.

Here's the lowest set of tracks - the Northern Pacific mainline. This represents the transcontinental line from Minneapolis to Seattle - a bit compressed (and maybe a bit more grandiose sounding than necessary, but hey...). This also represents the CB&Q eastbound from Orin Junction to Scottsbluff Nebraska and points southeast.

This is essentially a contorted dogbone arrangement, with three yards. The only (loosely) modeled portion is Laurel yard. Minneapolis and Seattle are each represented by staging yards. Laurel sports a 130' turntable and large roundhouse, to handle the big Challengers that ran on this part of the line.

The entire NP line exists on the layout to provide interchange with the CB&Q Wyoming mainline. Here's what it looks like:

The connecting line between

The connecting line between the NP and the Q mainline runs from near the turntable in Laurel to the interchange yard at Frannie / Orin (the interchange yard represents both the north and south ends of the modeled part of the Wyoming mainline - Frannie and Orin, respectively).

I call this line the Frannie Cutoff. In real life it was part of two NP branches that extended from Laurel to Fromberg, Montana, with a few miles of CB&Q trackage connecting on to Frannie from Fromberg. The Q had trackage rights over the NP branches and ran all the way to Laurel.

The dark green track is the Frannie Cutoff, running up an almost two percent grade all the way from Laurel to Frannie. This connection is almost all hidden track:

So here's the "meat and

So here's the "meat and potatoes" of the layout - the CB&Q Wyoming mainline. This is most of what is called the "Casper Subdivision" on the prototype.

The division headquarters, and the major yard, is in Casper. The layout of Casper yard may change to more efficiently use the space. 

The mainline runs through four towns with passing sidings, plus the Frannie / Orin Interchange yard and Casper. Grades run from about 1/2% to 1.7% maximum. All towns and sidings are level.

One of the key scenic features of the layout is on this line - the Wind River Canyon. Here the layout will sport benchtop to ceiling mountains, a small part of the Wind River, and a bit of Highway 20. Casper serves the Standard Oil Company refinery, and also has an icing rack for reefers. Powder River is just a seasonal siding with stock pens where both cattle and sheep were loaded onto stock cars years ago, and Shobon is just a switch onto the C&NW line to Lander (C&NW had trackage rights from Casper to Shobon). Thermopolis is a resort town (large hot springs gave rise to large mineral swimming pools). Worland has the Holly Sugar plant, a major industry on the layout. Greybull on the prototype had complete engine servicing facilities, including a roundhouse, machine shop and so on. The model will have none of this. The town will have several small industries, including an asphalt paving contractor which will receive tank cars of asphalt from the Husky refinery in Cody (another post). Lovell even today has several large industries (large for Wyoming, anyway). The model town will include a glass works and possibly a bentonite facility, even though that didn't yet exist in the era I'm modeling (that called modeler's license, folks!). Frannie / Orin is just a long interchange yard and junction between the NP, the CB&Q mainline and the Cody branchline. Whew! That's enough!

This diagram shows both decks of the layout. The upper deck extends out over Laurel on the left side of the layout. Other than the area shown, the remainder of the layout is single deck.

Now we hit the Lander branch

Now we hit the Lander branch of the Chicago and North Western Railroad.

It extends from Shobon to Lander. On the layout only the track near Shobon and the town of Lander itself are visible. Lander was primarily agrarian in nature, with seasonal apple shipments and less seasonal livestock feed products going out by rail. A prominent structure in Lander will be the Purina grain elevator.

Lander was always rumored to be the C&NW's jumping-off point in a quest to become another transcontinental rail line (through South Pass, WY), but this was never really seriously considered, apparently.

Here's the Lander branchline:

Finally we get to the last

Finally we get to the last major piece of the layout - the Cody branchline.

This extends (still actively to this day) from Frannie through Powell and Ralston to terminate about 35 miles later in Cody.

Cody was the Q's gateway to Yellowstone National Park, so consequently it carried a lot of passenger traffic. In WWII it also carried a lot of Japanese-Americans to the Heart Mountain Relocation camp at a temporary station named "Vocation," which was built just for the camp. I will NOT be modeling that stop on the line, even though my era encompasses WWII (Vocation was torn out about 1947).

Powell is very agrarian. A lot of sugar beets are grown in the area, most of which used to be loaded into sugar beet cars for shipment to various sugar factories (now they go by truck ). 

Between Powell and Cody is the Alkali Creek crossing, where the highway dove under the railroad and crossed over Alkali Creek while the railroad crossed above. This is the second, albeit small, scenic feature I specifially wanted to include on the layout. When I was eight or nine years old, I used to love crossing under the railroad there. Now it's an at-grade highway crossing. 

Cody had the Husky refinery (now gone completely), which shipped primarily asphalt by tank car. The Walthers refinery kit was supposedly based on this one. Cody now has a US Gypsum plant which produces drywall and such (and ships mostly by rail), but that wasn't there during my modeling era, and I won't be including it.

On the layout, Cody is on the second deck over Laurel. This is the mushroom part of the layout, in that Cody will be seen and operated from the left side of the peninsula, and Laurel from the right. This first diagram shows the bit of the Cody branch that's on the lower deck running from Frannie:

And this diagram shows the upper deck:

So that's it - the whole enchilada

It's a lot. I'm planning for 5-8 operators (south Jersey is a hotbed of operations). Does it look like too much (you should have seen the original plans!)? Any big "gotchas!" I'm missing?

I would really like to hear everyone's thoughts, criticisms, critiques, and as I said in the first post, ideas.

And sorry for the length of all this, too.

Mark P.

Wow!

Mark,

What an awesome space! You are going to have a lot of jealous railroaders. It is obvious you have put a lot of time and energy into the research and plan. I think it is a great start. You have done a great job keeping the aisles wide, and snaking the benchwork through the space and keeping your plan fairly accurate to the prototype. I love the Wind River Canyon idea!

I have a few quick concerns. You have a lot of hidden trackage, and some of it is pretty far away from the edge of the benchwork. Some of it almost 3 ft back. (3 foot deep benchwork is another concern.) Could you make the line from Shoban to Lander come off the opposite direction to avoid the hidden turn. Perhaps you could switch Shoban and Powder River locations to avoid the lengthy hidden track to Lander.

Your passing sidings are pretty short at Thermopolis, Greybull and Worland. Make sure they are long enough for your longest planned train. Also your staging yards are pretty small, only 4 tracks each. Is that enough to sustain the operations you want?

I think if I had this space, and this much research completed, I would hire a professional designer. I think it will avoid a lot of frustration later. This plan will require a lot of time and money. I would hate to have you have to make major changes after you have built a lot of your plan.

You have a very grand plan, one that I would love to see and operate. Good Luck.

Chris

Thanks, Chris!

I've always appreciated layouts with aisleways wide enough to allow folks to pass without  interrupting what the other guy was doing. 

I'm pretty tall, so I'm not too concerned about a three-foot reach. It is a good idea to shift what hidden track I can towards the aisles, though. That's part of the tweaking process that will start now that I have the basic plan down. 

I'd prefer not to switch the direction of the turnout at Shobon, because it's laid out like the prototype was. C&NW trains ran from Casper to Lander. If I reversed the turnout, they'd have to run from the opposite direction, and not from the main yard. I can adjust the position of Powder River and Shobon so that Shobon is just off the end of the big curve out of Casper, so that the Lander Branch could curve right back against the wall to the right, and not run through the Worland peninsula. That would push Powder River right back to the edge of Casper, but that might be okay. Moving Shobon would also give more of a lead-in to the Wind River Canyon, which would be good... Hmm. Have to look at that some more.

The short sidings is a good catch! I can slide the blob at the Worland / Thermopolis peninsula a little closer to the Orin/Frannie benchwork without creating too much of a pinch point in the aisle, but that will gain me maybe a foot at the most. I can also flip the turnouts so that the sidings start coming out of the curves rather than just after the curves, gaining another foot or so of siding length. Greybull is much easier because I can just extend the siding beyond the slight curve to the right to gain several more feet there.

On the layout I was building a few years ago (same theme, same space, two full decks) the NP staging yards were on separate peninsulas and longer. I planned for two trains in each yard track. This time the staging yards are shorter, so I probably do need more tracks. It will be relatively easy to accomplish that. Or I may just extend the yard tracks around the curve to the right, so I can once again fit two full trains per track.

The thought of hiring a layout designer has crossed my mind. I tend to think "orthogonally," and it's hard for me to break out of that mode. Have to give that suggestion more consideration.

Thanks for the thoughts! Very valuable insights! Anyone else have any thoughts?

Visible Lower Deck Tracks

Just for the sake of interest, here's what a bird's eye view of all the visible tracks on the lower deck looks like:

Casper

Mark,

I envy the mainline run you'll have on your layout to watch trains snake through the scenery. Should be lots of fun!

Chris is right about the sidings. They seemed pretty short to me too. Judging by the grid lines the sidings at Thermopolis, Worland, and Greybull look they would only hold about 9-10 cars and that's without an engine. The yard tracks you have at Laurel and Orin though are much longer, which suggests you might be running some trains that are going to be much longer than the sidings making meets rather difficult.

That yard in the corner at Casper also looks like it might be a far reach for switching, coupling, uncoupling, etc. I know you said that you're tall and don't mind the reach. But if you're going to have other operators over they might not be able to reach as far, which would lessen their enjoyment of what looks like the makings of a great layout.

Will look forward to seeing your further developments...

Hidden track

I would just caution about having too much track hidden, especially track that disappears on one side of the room and reappears 25 ft away on the other side of the room.  There are lots of places were it appears you have that type of thing happening.  Having people spend half their run peeking under the benchwork to see if they can tell if the train is running, will destroy any carefully crafted scenic effect.   Unless they had had a lot of subways in Wyoming. 

Paul and Dave

Thanks for the input - good comments!

Chris also mentioned the short sidings. I can lengthen Worland and Thermopolis by a couple of feet each pretty easily, I think. See my reply to Chris's comments. I'd like to make them three to five feet longer, but that will be more difficult. Greybull I can double in length with almost no effort, and I will. Also see my reply to Chris. I do like having varying siding lengths along the line, because that makes planning meets between longer trains more challenging if they can't pass at every single location along the railroad.

Casper's yard layout is very preliminary, and I'll take your thoughts about reach very seriously as I refine and finalize that area, Paul.

Regarding hidden track, Dave, designing in a lot of it is a failing of mine. Believe it or not, I tried to minimize it here - you should see my last layout plans ( thecbandqinwyoming.com. Go to Past Modeling> The Recent Past>  Cove Road>  Track Plan). Looking over the plan, Frannie Cutoff and Lander branch are nearly all hidden. I can see where I might be able to daylight sections of both: Frannie Cutoff on the grade out of Laurel; and Lander branch maybe at the peninsula blob and again on the back side of Wind River Canyon. I also might be able to daylight a short stretch adjacent to Orin without making the scenery a bit unrealistic.

Flips

It appears that the peninsula that Laurel is on can be accessed from both sides.  Why not flip Laurel to the left side of the peninsula, that puts the operators out in the leftmost aisle, not in the main room, decongesting the aisle, utilizing the left aisle more and making it seem more isolated as a separate railroad?  Then run the connection around the right side of the peninsula, which would make it easier to daylight. 

Cody is designed to be

Cody is designed to be operated from outside the layout, in a mushroom arrangement with Laurel on the inside. I might be able to reverse them. Laurel will have a full-time operator, but Cody will only be occupied when a train is working that town. Might work out better that way for just that reason.

Something to think about.

I was able to stretch the

I was able to stretch the sidings at Worland and Thermopolis by a couple of feet, and Greybull by more than that.

I also managed to daylight the Lander Branch in a few locations - notably at the the turnback curve between Worland and Thermopolis, then again between Worland and Greybull. I can probably also open up a bit between Greybull and where the track ducks below the Orin / Frannie yard. 

More of the Frannie Cutoff is visible as well. Rather than disappearing behind the backdrop near the roundhouse, it will be visible just in front of the backdrop along the entire length of Laurel yard.

Still to come is optimizing Casper yard.

Those changes are shown in the attached updated diagram of the lower level. I've also added the backdrop, which is the thick bright blue lines.

Wind River Canyon and Alkali Creek Areas

This is what I'm trying to capture in the Wind River Canyon area:

And this is the crossing at Alkali Creek:

Posts and curves

I like the space and concept of the route but I am concerned about the lower three support posts being in the isles.

Experience tells me that is trouble, blocking access, and the free space being less than 3 feet will create pinch point.

Merge them into the layout, even if on the edge like the upper two. While its tough to scenic around a pole, its better than having them in the way for operators.

One point people overlook in a layout is the radius of curves. We pick a minimum because of space but remember where possible, go larger! It will look better. 30" will run about anything, but its the minimum to make a pinch point, not the standard for all curves. Go larger, graceful sweeps where you can.

Casper Firming Up!

I've been spending some time on the Casper yard and adjacent industries. Here's the latest iteration:

 I think I've got all the basics of a functional yard. Anything I'm missing?

Impressive plan and

Impressive plan and prototype!

I ll will be following with great interest! Thanks for posting!

Yannis

Updated Laurel Yard

Here's an updated version of Laurel yard. It's been rotated 90 degrees clockwise.

It has five classification tracks, with a combined length of 620", providing a maximum capacity of 100 40-foot HO cars. The AD track will accept a 25-car train plus loco and caboose without fouling the ladders.

Double-ended yards lose a lot to the ladders - the shortest classification track is only about 75" long, meaning it will hold only about 12 cars. It will generally be used as the run-around track.

The Frannie cutoff track, the green one which connects at the double crossover below the turntable, will serve as the switch lead on this end of the layout. The mainline will serve as the lead (HORRORS!) at the other end. Not completely ideal, but even in this much space, compromises are sometimes required.

One thing I took pains to include is a somewhat compressed version of the Laurel coal trestle. In many locations the NP used trestles rather than towers, running the coal hoppers up a ramp track and into the trestle building itself. Coal would be dumped down from the hopper into bins, which in turn would drop coal into the tenders on the servicing track on the way into the roundhouse.

As you can see, there is clear space behind Laurel yard (upper part of the image). I may add an industry or two, or maybe part of the adjacent small town. Likely in front of the Frannie cutoff, which will be climbing from left to right in this image, I'll place a view block of some type so the tracks behind will not be seen, but trains on those tracks will be visible intermittently.

Any suggestions for improvement?

Just a Thought

Mark,

The layout of your yard is very similar to the yard on my own railroad. I assume you will be using the yard lead to the left to do most of your switching, since as you mention the mainline is the lead on the other end of the yard. Given that, I'm wondering if you might like to have the caboose track a little closer to the main switching lead?

One idea would be to run it off the left end of the shortest yard track which as you said you'll probably be using as a through track any way. The caboose track would then go between the left yard ladder and the MOW tracks.  Just a thought, take it or leave it as you choose.

Not being real familiar with steam operations, I have another question for you. Did the roundhouse tracks serve as the engine ready tracks in the steam era? Or were they only for maintenance and repairs? If the latter, it looks like you might have room for another track coming off the turntable just below the outbound track which could serve as an engine ready track if need be. 

It's been fun watching your layout develop. Thanks for sharing the progress!

Hi Paul, Thanks for the

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the suggestions & questions.

I like your idea with the caboose track. To be honest I just stuck it where it is because there's room. But I can move it over where you suggest pretty easily. I'll probably add it where the MOW track switch is, and move the MOW tracks over to where the caboose track now is. Would that make sense? Otherwise I'll have to make a custom turnout for the caboose track off the top classification track. While I do build my own turnouts on FastTrack jigs, I'd rather not do a custom build without a jig (yeah, I know. A bit lazy).

I was thinking that the outbound engine track would serve as the ready track, but there is ample room to add another track off the turntable for outbounds as well, especially if the MOW tracks move.  Which also made me think "Why do I have the inbound and outbound tracks coming together off the turntable? They could just as easily run to the turntable separately, eliminating the nearby switch and proving more length for outbound and inbound locos. I might be able to add a RIP track as well in that area. Hmmm....

New Ideas

Your idea of switching the MOW and caboose track around makes perfect sense to me. The only reason I mentioned the caboose track idea to you was that it seemed a long way from the main switch lead, and involved a double switch back to boot. That's not to say that arrangement wouldn't work, but through the years I've found simple is better. Complicated switching maneuvers seem like they would add interest at first, but then get rather irritating after a while. For MOW tracks however, that's not so much an issue. So having the MOW in an out of the way place makes more sense to me. 

As for that outbound track from the turntable. If the outbound track also serves as the engine ready track, what happens when for some reason you want an engine in the roundhouse to go directly to an outbound train? It's going to be difficult to get that engine out if it's stuck behind and outbound track that's already filled with ready engines. Having a separate outbound track and making your current outbound track more of a through track avoids that problem. As an added benefit it also lets engines go directly to the roundhouse if needed without going through the fueling track. 

You've got a good idea about sneaking in a R.I.P. track too. At first I didn't have one in my yard, but added one in the late stages of developing my track plan. I'm sure glad I did. It's a great place to switch all kinds of cars, and doesn't take a lot of additional space with added buildings to make it happen.

Keep up the good work! Your plan is developing nicely!

Nice layout