That is an interesting twist

I wonder if i could use this

I wonder if i could use this instead of the Armour All. Due the fact that ArmourAll is hard to find.

Looking at the MSDS

It does contain Propylene glycol monomethyl ether and Isopropyl alcohol.

Phil

Isopropyl alcohol -- not good

Isopropyl alcohol is not good. It causes these paints to gum up and will clog your airbrush. The old Polyscale formula was friendly to ISO alcohol, as are Tamiya paints. But Tamiya paints don't brush paint very well according to the armor modelers.

See if you can find Propylene Glycol like the OP is doing. It's an additive in cattle feed or to keep pipes from freezing, so it should be available in most places. It's for sale on Amazon:

Armor All Auto Glass Cleaner 22 Oz. 
$2.69 Free shipping for Prime members when buying this Add-on Item
Link:  http://a.co/dsTZ8MN

@ Joe

Hi Joe,

Yes, both the Armor All and the Golden retarder are propylene glycol and water.  If you want to substitute the Armor All only, use 13 ml. of propylene glycol.  The Golden retarder is the balance of the 50 ml. (37 ml).

Bet you'll also appreciate that its a lot less expensive to use the propylene glycol too!!!!

( ;> ) )

Nick

Turtlewax ClearVue glass cleaner

You missed the largest component in the MSDS: Acetone.

• Acetone 3-5% (2-Propanone)
• Propylene Glycol Methyl Ether 1-2% (Glycol Ether PM)
• Isopropyl Alcohol 1-2% (Isopropanol)
• Ethylene Glycol Mono Butyl Ether 1-2% (2 Butoxyethanol)

Acetone is also not good for these acrylic paints. Given this cleaner has 3-5x the acetone ingredient over any other ingredient, I'd steer way clear of this as a replacement for Armor All Auto Glass cleaner.

As an ironic twist, 2 Butoxyethanol is another name for Butyl cellosolve ...

chemists are a twisted lot...

a rose by another name is not necessarily a chemist....

Nick

I'm Surprised

Joe, I'm really surprised that you would knock Tamiya on someone else's word and not try it for yourself.

I am also surprised that you talk about the Pan Pastels as pigments with an oil based carrier, this is untrue. Pastels were originally designed for use on paper, canvas and wood and does not adhere well to plastic. If you want to achieve any sort of reliable success you should start with a light coat of Dulcoat.

In your latest TMTV video you talk about the Pan Pastels as having oils as a binder. There is an oil based Artist's Pastel Sticks these are the only ones that have oil. The Pan Pastels basically consist of pigment, binders  and lots of filler, then pressed into the cake container. The difference between pastels and paint pigment is the quality of the grind. Paint pigment is ground to a finer degree then pastels(pulverised), the difference between grinding and pulverizing is the distinguishing feature between chalks and paint pigment.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking pastels, some people get good results but with paint powders, the results are even better. Both can be washed back off if you're not satisfied, but Paint pigment does not fade or get blown away when you fix it with Dulcoat.

Each product has its best usage and Pan Pastels in my opinion are best suited for structures, especially laser cut wood, where as Paint Pigments like AIM or Bragdon Powders are great for rolling stock, locos, structures and scenery.

Ralph Renzetti

@Hobbes 1310

Phil

You can get Armour All glass cleaner from Super Cheap Auto.

Phil You can get Armour All

 Cheers Peter. Will swing down next time im near one

Phil

Tamiya paint and PanPastels

My original criteria for a "good" acylic paint (see the MRH Acrylic guide) was:

Tamiya paint fails on two of the three criteria: First, Tamiya is a solvent-based acrylic paint based on butanol and propanol (cousins to Isopropyl alcohol). Butanol especially is highly toxic and can cause kidney failure if you get exposed too much. The other paints we did cover are based on propylene glycol, which is used in many consumer products including food and is listed as safe for consumer products and food by the FDA.

Second, Tamiya has a superb reputation as an airbrush paint, but when it comes to brush painting, it's very finicky paint. Many recommend against using it for brush painting at all, others report decent results if you observe some careful techniques to avoid the problems. In short, Tamiya is barely usable as a brush paint, although it's apparently a superb airbrush paint.

So I don't recommend Tamiya acrylics for these reasons. It is a paint masquerading as a water-based acrylic, but it's actually a somewhat unfriendly solvent-based acrylic. If I can get so many other good paints that DO meet all my criteria, why recommend a paint that fails 2/3rds of my criteria?

I have no problems using PanPastels on bare (but painted) plastic. 

As for the binder, the PanPastel site itself says "minimal binder" -- notice they did not say "no binder". So there is some small amount of binder -- enough so that they can press it into cakes in the plastic pans. It's the "minimal" part that allows it to remain a dusty powdered material and not a paint.

I can tell you I've accidentally gotten small globs of PanPastel pigment on my self-healing pad and if I try to get it up it just smears everywhere. Ordinary water won't clean it off. I needed to use a citrus solvent to get it up, which leads me to think what binder they do use (admittedly in a minimal amount per their website) is somewhat oily and repels water. The fine pigment grind coupled with the binder allows them to press the stuff into cakes that don't just fall out of the pan as loose powder -- and conveniently makes it a silky powder to use for weathering.

This is also true in my experience with PanPastels. Per the PanPastel website: Each color is loaded with the finest quality artists’ pigments for the most concentrated colors possible. The colors have excellent lightfastness ...

So PanPastels are made to be an artist's medium for doing pastel "painting", which means the pigments are made to a professional artist's quality with good longevity and colorfastness. The silky nature of the pigments plus the minimal (but slightly oily) binder helps them really stay put in my experience.

Think of it this way: pigment with minimal binder = powdery pan pastels, pigment with lots of binder = paint.

Materials cost

Looks like the butyl cellosolve was the more expensive component.  500 ml is still enough to make 2 liters ( half gallon ) of HP acrylic solvent.  Larger quantities of butyl cellosolve cost less per unit volume.

Nick

 "Tamiya has a superb

I wouldn't recommend it for brush painting either. It's hard to get  even coverage and the on model working time is very short so coming back to an area to lap in some more doesn't work well. For weathering or painting cars you want to end up streaked it's okay though.....DaveB

@ Nick

Hi Nick,

Do you know how much Propylene Glycol you would need to replace the Golden Retarder?

Regards, Martin

@ Martin

Hi Martin,

Golden is 70%  propylene glycol so (volume of Golden X 0.7 = Volume of propylene glycol).  

If you were going to use the Armor All too.the total amount of propylene glycol would be 5ml per 100ml of solvent.

If no Armor All then 3.5ml of propylene glycol per 100ml of solvent.

I got my graduated cylinders last week. I’m waiting until I get a glass bottle (that mineral acids come in) to store it in.  It should store well in a thicker plastic bottle also.  I’m not sure it would be good to use a plastic soda bottle or the like.

Please let us know how it works!

Thanks.

Nick

Floetrol

Floetrol is an additive used to make acrylic latex type house paint flow better and not show streaks when overlapping brush or roller strokes. It is also used by many artists to help artist acrylic paints blend smoothly and slows the drying time for their paintings. I have a bottle of it that I have used for both painting the walls and when painting pictures with acrylics. I just tried it on a small model, brush painting, and it worked well. I haven’t tried it in an air brush, but the product is recommended for spraying with those mechanical sprayers, so I expect it to work well in an air brush.

I can’t find the ingredients anywhere, but seems to be very similar to these other retarders. Out of the bottle it might be thicker than desired for spraying, but a little water should thin that out. It’s marketed under the Flood brand, which seems to come from PPG paints. There are probably other similar products out there, this is what I picked up at my local paint store, don’t remember the price I paid, but Google says it is 6.95 at Home Depot for a quart.

Probably much simpler to pick up a bottle of this rather trying to mix up your own thinners.

@ Nick

Will be about 3 weeks before I have an opportunity to try it out but will go with

35ml Propylene Glycol to replace the Golden Retarder

10ml Propylene Glycol to replace the Armor All Glass Cleaner

200ml Butyl Glycol

Balance distilled water to 1000ml

and see how I go.

Regards, Martin

@ Brent

Hi Brent,

Thanks for that info. Floetrol Acrylic Paint and Stain Conditioner is available here in Oz. Is this the same?

Regards, Martin

@Martin

That sounds like the same stuff. They also make a version for oil paint, so make sure you get the one for acrylic paint.

Seems to be made of some form of glycol, at least it behaves like that. I am not about to taste it though! Ethylene glycol has a sweet taste which is why it can be dangerous around animals as they will lick it up. Cows seem to like it as well as some pets, many have died as a result of licking up spilled car antifreeze. Don’t leave open containers around, and clean up any spills if you have pets around.

@Brent

Thanks for the advice. Cows are over the back fence so not a problem but will watch the pets.

Regards, Martin

Neerim South

Armor All

I found it at WalMart in the auto section.  About $2.39 for a spray bottle

I have found Isopropyl

I have found Isopropyl alcohol to work when combined with Glycerin.