Main Text and plan

The scene is approximately 5 ft deep from edge of fascia to the backdrop. The track is right at the back almost against the backdrop. The concept is that the train is hidden from view from the "main street" (which is along the fascia) and you can catch glimpses of it between buildings and streets that cross the main street.

Behind the backdrop of this scene, there is a plan to have another narrower benchwork (12"-16" range) from another part of the layout. So both back-to-back benches will end up being 6ft (fascia to fascia).

The question is which of the two access-solutions below makes more sense/ works best, since the scene will need serious access for maintenance and construction.

1.I am thinking of either removable backdrop so that i can access the scene from both sides (effectively making the depth 2.5ft from each side)

2. Access hatches on two spots, 2ft X 1.6ft rectangular ones, on the center of two city blocks (red rectangles on the plan).

I am leaning towards solution 1# to have access from the other side of the scene, with removable backdrop. I am thinking that by choosing this solution, it will be easier to work and i will be able to freely use the under-layout space for storage, whereas hatches will remove this option (and be possibly tiresome to use).

I am attaching an interim plan of the bench-work/ track in question. With red rectangles, i depict the two access hatches.

#1

The removable backdrop will give the best access.

An access hatch can result in damage moving it around and then you have to put it someplace.  If you pop up in the middle of a "city" then you still have to reach over the remaining scenery, risking whacking things with your elbows.

Downside is it could be harder to hide a seam in the backdrop.

5 ft deep?

  No matter how you access it that's a lot of scenery to build for a minimal amount of railroading. I'm using 30 inch wide as a maximum benchwork width( in areas with two parallel railroads serving the industries) and it still looks like a lot of work to fill up, my areas with 17 inch benchwork( a single line serving the industries) look about right for amount of scenry to track ratio......DaveB

Years of effort

Yep, all those structures fully detailed will take years of effort putting in a few hours per week. My North Umpqua bridge scene (two kitbashed Central Valley bridges) took about 14 months to do at about 6 hours per week.

Doing a super-deep model city scene with lots of structures is going to take a very long time to finish. Just sayin' ...

If that's what you want and intend, then great. But I have found narrow scenes save a lot of time (with the scenery you don't need to build) and when they're chest height or so, they look *great* ... I've decided life is too short to build really deep scenes because of all the modeling effort involved. But then I'm an operator first, so everything else in the hobby is to get me to the point I can run the trains and enjoy them.

The closer the better

Not sure of the scale or method of construction.

In my experience hand laying track 18 inches from the front of the layout is doable but takes longer. Frequent breaks are need to easy back strain (the frequency of breaks are increasing as I get older). The same is true for scenery. 

For maintenance of track the #1 option is great.

For construction and detailing, the closer the better.

For my O scale layout, where I am experiencing these long reach areas, I should have created a more modular approach so I could pull the module work on the details and replace the module.

On the HO scale layout, I found having the module on a workbench and being able to hand lay the track and create the scene up close, much more enjoyable.

Eugene

An Idea...

Eugene sparked an idea that might be a better solution.  Do you have room to roll a module out from the benchwork?  If you do, you could build the city on a module on casters that could be moved to access the track, or the back part of the city.  No backdrop joints to hide or access hatches...

Deep Access

Examples of publicized layouts with deep urban scenes include those created by John Allen on his Gorre and Daphetid; and by George Selios on his Franklin and South Manchester.  There are also public entertainment attractions, such as Miniatur Wunderland, with such scenes.  There are others, both private and public, so some research would be worthwhile before investing all the time needed for construction.

John Allen used access hatches, including one with an open pop-up inside of a lift-up hatch.  Urban scenes do take time to build, but they are real eye-catchers when completed -- perhaps because they are unique in the model rr world.  If hatches are chosen, logical boundaries for the edges would be the streets and roadbed, i.e., making the hatch the size of whole blocks.

Whether hatches or a movable backdrop is chosen, some thoughts about the design of deep urban scenes:

1.  In real life, the horizon is always at or above the eye level of the viewer.  A "flat" urban scene would require an appropriately high backdrop painting to imitate the real world if the buildings didn't reach eye level.

2.  The cited urban scenes utilized perspective in their construction.  Roads narrowed as the went up towards the horizon, and buildings angled and shrunk accordingly.

3.  The sketch shows an angled corner to the backdrop; a curved corner would be more suitable.  However, this is not a hard and fast rule; corners can be concealed in other manners as done on John Allen's layout.

Thank you all for the ideas

Thank you all for the ideas and feedback! The reason for this very deep scene is first that i really like urban scenes and second, it is one of the few cases i could combine mainline action with a main street / dense urban scenery. In most other cases the main street / commercial area was at a considerable distance  from the mainline (i am talking about ATSF and southern California). In short, such a scene is sort of a must-have for me.

Dave Husman: I was afraid of exactly what you mentioned about the access hatches, so i ll opt for the backdrop solution. The way i visualized it (so-far), the back drop is going to be a 2-part solution, sky and mountain-line (San Gabriel Mountains) in two different layers. The idea i had was that the mountain layer is going to be removable.

DaveB: I am with you on this, on the rest of the layout the benchwork is planned to be below 30" (even much narrower if possibly, inspired by Lance Mindheim's books). I designed this part with heavy scenery / low railroading, in purpose so that in this part of the layout, the train becomes the "background"/"extra" and the main street / structures become the "foreground"/"main star".

Joe: Thank you for bringing this up for consideration. I have that in mind (the effort with respect to the urban scenery), and made several considerations / seconds thoughts on this, but i have a thing for urban scenes and building / scratch-building structures . My favorite scene by far is the scene where the Chief crosses Colorado boulevard (old route 66) and snakes between two buildings in downtown Pasadena. The plan i posted is the best i can come up with, having mainline action in California combined with main-street/urban scene. I could try to make the scene less deep though by making some more compromises in selective compression (saving 1ft or so in the process).

Eugene: It is HO scale, typical open-grid bench-work capped with plywood.

Alan & Eugene: I will seriously consider the roll-out modules idea! it might be very helpful. To have the mainline tucked in near the backdrop and then push/roll the finished city-blocks in front of it and pull them out for maintainance/cleaning. Sounds like a great idea, many thanks for it!

Don: Thank you very much for the insights!! I will seriously consider your advice and come back to your pointers with respect to backdrop and perspective when the time comes. I hastily designed the backdrop on this plan therefore its angled on the sketch, i intend to have it follow the contour of the mainline curve.

Tall buildings

If th buildngs are tall enough, it's not possible to even see that there's a big open hatchway.  In this scen from the Orlando Society of Model Railroaders layout, there is a great open hole from the tall black building to the Amtrack sign.

http://osmr.webs.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid=201557751

Hatches & Tall buildings

IrishRover, many thanks for the link! Very nice example, i will have that in mind if i opt to add any hatches (in combination with what Don mentioned with respect to the edges of the hatches)

No hatch

The beauty of this one is that there IS no hatch; just a big open hole!

Sometimes you can make removable dioramas

Although my Hoovertown downtown area isn't that deep I did create it as a removable diorama that can be lifted out to replace lights or modify the area.  When I'm finally almost "finished" with my layout I intend to replace every standard kit structure with a scratch built or kit bashed one.

Here are some shots:

Inspiring work!

Rick thanks for posting these! Very inspiring work there. I am looking forward to seeing the scratchbuilt versions.

Is the removable module base made out of this corrugated-core plastic-roofing material?

Thanks, Yannis!

I appreciate your kind words.  The module base is actually made out of corrugated plastic sheets made into a sandwich.  You can see info on this here:  http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/28569

Make your Urban Area a Popout..

From about two inches from the tracks to the fascia to the appropriate place in the right put in a foam popout that you can build your urban area on.  The advantages as I see it are:

1.  Building the urban area will be fun as you can build it off the layout and get to all sides.  Attach the buildings to the foam with a screw from the bottom.  makes working on the buildings easy.

2. Track maint. will be easy.  If you build you bench work right you should be able to walk up to the tracks to clean them with the popout and fascia removed.

3. Wiring will be easy to install and get to.

4. Scenery along the track will be easy to do.  

5. etc.

To me, this is such a good idea that I am going to consider using it myself on my next layout.

Mike Lee

The alternative

would be to draw about a 24 inch parallel line on the inside of the tracks and cut the benchwork off there. 24  inches of HO scale city would still be plenty to build and maintain but would be feasible to reach across with some help from a short step ladder......DaveB

Roll-out/ Pop-out sections sound ideal!

I think i am going to go for the roll-out (or the pop-out) idea that Alan, Eugene and Mike proposed possibly combined with the removable backdrop if needed. These ideas really helped out guys and saved a scene that i thought was lost from the layout which was on the other side of the backdrop!

To be honest, the roll-out-module city-blocks sound ideal for a few reasons (most already mentioned by the fellow members that proposed them, such as working on the blocks more easily).

Without having this solution in mind, i was originally limiting the depth of the scene which is behind the backdrop (the one that would have been 12" to 16" deep). Now with the roll-out solution, i can have any kind of scene on the other (back) side of the backdrop without worrying about accessibility for the urban scene. I originally planned an LA-River crossing at this spot (the behind the backdrop scene), but thought that bridges and depth would conflict with accessibility to the track of the other (urban) scene, if i used a removable backdrop as the sole solution for accessing.

Now thanks to the roll-out idea, the LA-river scene is back on the plan! .

Many thanks again!!!

DaveB: Eventhough 24" sound great, unfortunately i wouldn't want to get narrower than what i already planned in this area. I am already on the (self-imposed) limit after making some serious compression-compromises to the scene.

Rick: You are more than welcome! Checking out the link you posted (Edit, great work there Rick, bookmarked it for future reference!)

How about a slide-out section?

You could get access by making the foreground section like a drawer, using ball bearing drawer slides to allow it to slide in and out for access. This would make alignment fairly easy, and perhaps even allow foreground tracks.

Good idea about the drawer...

Very good idea to incorporate drawer slides (or similar) to act as alignment guides for the modules! Thanks Jay!

I am also thinking of utilizing cabinet door ball catches so that the module "locks" into place.