Not all NMRA Natihonals are the Same....

I had my doubts on how well this years National was going to be, which isoen reason why I deecided not to go.  the other was cost.  I thought it was a poor choice, choosing a location that woudl be very expensive from the start(hotel and food price wise), wes there are plenty of non-rail attractions, but if the NMRA needs to depend on that to gain interest in the COnvention, I think that is a BAD idea. 

In 2016 I thought the Clinic Schedule was wonting and I was disappointed with that.  though the Layout Tours were well worth the expense, that and seeing many friends, which is one of hte major reasons for going, but when I can see the same frriends this year at other less expsensive venues, I decided on the latter.

I have high hopes for 2018.  In 1998 I "worked" as a volunteer for the whole week when the Convention was in KC, so I missedo ut on seeing most of what was there.  There a er a ton of excellent well known layouts (and some excellent not so well known layouts) that I am very excited about seeing again and I am hoping the Clinic Scheudle will be improved by then.

So if this was yoru first convention, please give KC in 2018 a chance, It should be well worh the expense!

Ken Ll

I live 20 minutes away and did't go.

The reason:  For me, it wasn't worth the money and I especially didn't like the fact (and cost) or the clinics.  For me the regional conventions are a MUCH better value.

I've been to a few on the east coast in the past...

...and enjoyed them tremendously. It's certainly not cheap to attend, but I've been fortunate in that it has not been an issue for me.

The last one I attended was Atlanta in 3013 I think it was. I always went with my wife, which added greatly to the enjoyment.

I was never left wanting for anything to do, either there or at the previous one I attended - Hartford 2009. In fact, there ws more I wanted to do than I had time for! Layout tours and operating sessions, plus the clinics I wanted to attend, would have filled at least two weeks. Giving my own clinic also ate up a few hours a couple different days. So I had to pick and choose which activity I wanted to do more during any particular timeframe. 

I also enjoy Regionals, especially the ones put on by Mid-Eastern Region. But to me, Nationals are (as they should be) a huge step up from Regionals in terms of scope in all ways.

Having never been disappointed, I guess I just can't imagine the cost of a National NOT being worth it.

I am always disappointed by

I am always disappointed by the situation that forces one to pick and choose between the various clinics regardless of what organization is hosting them. In an ideal world one would be able to attend all the clinics offered and not have to miss any of them. It seems that is never the case though again regardless of the events.

I have never attended an NMRA convention but did look at the schedule for some I could have attended. I thought the cost was out of proportion to what I saw as value for attending, and did not go. I wish the organization well.

Go Anyway

I've traveled to several over the years and the expense to simply get to the continental US is, by far, the largest expense. Everything at the conventions is worth attending imho. I get so much out of the events that, in retrospect, the money is forgotten.

The hotel is a luxury but always is the case whether I travel to another Hawaiian island or to another state. Food is food. You can certainly spend as much or as little as you wish. The cost of registration is minor and I believe that most of the local supporting regional members volunteer their time so helping covering the cost is reasonable. 

The Portland event happened the week prior to my mother's 80'th birthday so I had no problem justifying the time. I wish the timing had been better for Orlando since my brother lives a short flight away but it wasnt' to be this year. Perhaps next year I'll be able to meet some of ya'll from the forums. That is the highlight of any of these trips. We are the "hobbyists" that share model railroading. I say, go if you can.

Loved it, can't wait for next year

This was only my third National (Denver way back in 1977 and last year in Indianapolis), and my kids are grown so the commercial "attractions" of Orlando were not a factor for me, but I thoroughly enjoyed it. I can understand why some would flinch at the cost, but I can also appreciate the difficulty faced by host committees at finding venues that can provide all of the services needed by such a varied bunch of old farts. 

The format and composition of these gatherings is clearly somewhat of a routine, and for some that may be tiring, but I find it rather charming, especially noting that it doesn't always go smoothly according to plan. The human element is very vivid, and I'm fine with that. 

One huge element that I missed in Orlando that I enjoyed in Indy (and that appears slated for Kansas City) was the Operations Road Show. What a fantastic experience that is - if you haven't participated in that before it alone is a good reason to go to Kansas City. 

Rob's comment about having to choose which clinics and tours to attend and which to miss is certainly true, but I've never attended any convention or conference in any field where this wasn't the case. An abundance of riches can make you feel like you're missing something!

Neil's thoughts on travel and lodging ring a bell for me too. I've attended regionals and tried to hold down costs by staying at "nearby" motels, but have concluded that that's usually a false economy. Staying at the convention hotel is expensive, but the increased convenience allows one to make the most of the event schedule. Plus it really helps with the economics of the overall event. So I've taken an "in for a penny, in for a pound" approach and don't regret it (even though as a school teacher I'm on a tight budget). 

I've also discovered that for me, getting to these events on Amtrak is part of the attraction. I'm old enough to remember what the original California Zephyr was like, and Amtrak isn't that, but I am finding that traveling solo in an Amtrak roomette is a magnificent way to see the country. I get very little reading done because I'm looking out the window the entire time, sometimes researching what I see on my phone. Heaven. 

Since there is currently no Amtrak service between New Orleans and Orlando, there wasn't really a southern route to get there from California. Since I took the mid-continent route last year and didn't want to repeat, I traveled north to Portland on the Coast Starlight, then east to Chicago on the Empire Builder, continuing east to Boston on the Lake Shore Limited (slight detour to visit a friend), then south to Orlando on the Silver Meteor. That's a lot of time on the train, but I enjoyed it so much that I didn't want it to be over. 

I did fly home after the convention, and that was cheaper but seemed almost inhumane after the pleasure of the roomette. 

Jeff Allen

Orlando 2017 vs previous years

I spoke to one modeler who called to sign up for TMTV about the Orlando convention ... he said this was his 20th convention, and Orlando was the least enjoyable of the lot. He said there were a lot of schedule teething problems and Orlando's pretty pricey. He noted the convention book had a lot of typos and proofreading errors, sometimes paragraphs would just stop mid-sentence.

His overall impression was that this convention's leaders were less experienced putting on a national convention and so they made mistakes. However, mistakes are how you learn, so they're probably a lot wiser now if they ever work on a future convention.

He had one friend attend and Orlando was his first convention ... but after all the issues he encountered, he said he decided not to attend KC next year. He told his friend that was a mistake, most NMRA conventions run much more smoothly than Orlando did, so he finally convinced his friend to sign up for KC.

I agree with him, KC should be a bang up convention, and I know the KC guys really know their stuff when it comes to running a good convention. I've been to KC for model RR conventions before, and I've always thoroughly enjoyed myself.

You milage may vary...

Kansas City next summer

IMO, with Stephen Priest in charge of KC next summer the national convention should be a big success. Plus, KC is a great city with lots to experience. 

I’m really looking forward to attending. 

Enjoyed the train show, except for.....

......all the walking. From the parking lot to the actual ballroom where the train show was held turned out to be just over a half mile..just to get into the show. I saw many a senior modeler having to stop and rest several times. Including myself. Other than that, I really enjoyed seeing all the new stuff.

Cincinnati 2018

If either layout tours and/or ops are your things, then you should be sure to make it to Cincinnati in 2018 for the NMRA Regional being held there. There are a ton of really world-class layouts that will be open. At least 15 have been in Great Model Railroads, 50 have been featured in MR, and others are unpublished but very nice. A total of over 80 layouts that will be open. There are so many that they're having four days of layouts open for tours and ops. I don't think I've seen that many layouts open at any National that I've attended. I'm not running the convention, I just live here and know how many great layouts there are around here. Not sure why, I think one great layout leads to three more. You will not be disappointed. It really is a model railroad Mecca. 

http://www.cincy-div7.org/CX%20Flyer%20v6.pdf

Randy

Think of your market!

Now this is a very good point about considering your market. The National Train show brings the public and a lot of younger folks, but generally speaking, a high percentage of mail railroaders are well past their mid-life and are into the retirement timeframe. The idea of a venue that far away from parking? That's a potential wrongful death lawsuit just waiting to happen.

I'm reminded of a veterans event with similar parking issues, several years ago. A WW2 vet died of a heart attack as all the handicapped parking spaces (there weren't many, if memory serves) were full and he walked way further than his doctor had told him to try at his last checkup. The family sued and I think they settled with the show organizers.

.

People walking 0.5 mile may have parked at the Rosen Plaza Hotel and then were unwilling to move their car to the west Convention Center lot, or to be dropped off in another car, or to wait for and use one of the shuttles. From the most distant stall in the west Convention Center lot, to the hall, the walking distance was less than 0.3 miles. Anyone could have been driven to the front turn-around driveway and dropped off right at the CC front door. There were also scooters available for rent and a couple of golf carts inside. The NTS needs over 100,000 square feet of exhibition space and it is very hard to provide that amount of space in a modern facility with less than 0.2 miles to the furthest parking space. Questions about this issue can be directed to the NTS general manager, the national Convention manager or the local host committee head; any of those three is in the best position to answer.

Just me...???

Reasons?

I agree. The OP might have an excellent reason for why Orlando was no good. And I wasn't there so I'm not going to pick whatever his reason apart (and make no mistake, someone is going to do just that. There's always someone who will for people who voice displeasure), but I'd love to know what they are.

So should anyone looking to host a future event of this type.

Yep, and I'm still waiting for these later posts.

Beats me if the reasons are good or silly, as I've been to events that tjhe opinion was so polarized that you had to ask if the two people went to the same event. But I'd love to read them.

It's just not you Prof_K

Looks like he lit the fire and then decided his work was done?

Jerry

Convention

Too many clinics and tours were canceled, the convention guide was a total mess with some clinics not even printed, several clinics were listed as canceled but were actually not, layout tours were rushed.

"Master Model Railroaders", a stuck up snotty bunch, the silent auction was a total mess......there used to be a small group of people that ran it for several conventions, but Sunshine region decided they were going to do it themselves......hence the mess.......there used to be a limit as to what you could enter........over that and you had to pay for a table at the show.........they let someone put in 300 pieces of n scale and it took a day and a half to get it all registered.

This was all done (or not) from the very same Sunshine region NMRA that told me and several friends of mine 25 years ago back when I lived in Florida that we could not participate in the Achievement Program because 1. we were into N scale, 2. we were too young and , 3. we were not "Real" model railroaders because we were into N scale.

A lot of people use the crutch "its a volunteer organization, they can only do so much, why don't you offer to help?"

People did offer to help and it was turned away, the people running the convention had a "good ol' boy" attitude.

Sunshine region really messed up this convention, and now there are many people within the organization that are questioning weather or not to continue their membership.

Try to tell this to the NMRA leadership ...........they don't like to hear the truth.

My local division and region is a good group of down to earth people..........if I could just participate and contribute to them and NOT the national I would do so.

Quite a few people I had looked forward to meeting in person, but afterward they had the attitude "ok now that we have met, bug off".

So yeah, no more nation conventions for me.......this was my third and final one the first was Pittsburgh in 1990, Valley forge in 1993, and the Orlando mess of 2017.

Well

Orlando was the convention I thought I could convince my family to go to, simply because it was Orlando and so much else to do.  I would have loved to meet Rick and Michael (and anyone else at the show), but circumstances didn't allow us to go.  Kansas City would also be cool, but we'll have to see.  KC would almost be driving distance for me, albeit still a long two days.

Definite Destination

I concur with Randy about Cincy.  I have attended the OpSig SWOOPS (SouthWest Ohio OPS) weekends in the past and had a fabulous time.  It was hard to pick 4 layouts out of the plethora that were available.  I am planning on attending the MC Regional especially since the SWOOPS that normally would have been held this fall will instead be incorporated into the convention next year.  Already looking forward to it as well as attending KC. 

Should have been more information

The Orange County Convention Center has 7,000,000 (million) square feet of display space. You mean to tell me that they couldn't find 100,000 sq ft available closer to the west concourse entrance, the entrance that just about everybody was using because thats where drivers were directed to park.

Shuttles? Would have been nice if someone had thought to post signs pointing people to where the shuttle stops were.

Scooters for rent? Yep 55 bucks. That would have been 55 bucks not spent with the show vendors had I opted to go that route. 

Again I enjoyed the show itself immensly. But the logistics left something to be desired.

7,000,000

Again, contact the NTS manager, host committee chair or national convention chair directly to get the facts, but no, the NTS or NMRA cannot generally dictate to the convention center where their 100K space is to be located, at least not at a cost that would make the economics work. The center would charge a huge premium for such a clause in the contract. A show of 100K feet is small by OCC standards. Space is booked 3 to 5 years in advance and in the intervening years the center books other events, then tells you the specific hall assigned to you about 18 months out after they know their other commitments. Or, you do pick space at the time of contract, but your choice is dictated by what you will pay and what they are willing to offer given your size. They reserve and do not let you pick from certain halls or space. And often reserve the right to move you if they get a Bigger Better Deal.

Volunteer on a convention planning committee some time to understand the challenges or fix what you think was wrong; it is eye opening.

OP made his case.

Props to the OP for backing up his points. Agree with them or not, he did make his case.

Not picking anything apart, but I want to address a few of these points:

Okay, I have heard the same thing from both people I know who went to this convention, so I think your point is valid.

Another complaint I heard was for the tours being cancelled. When you schedule stuff that far out, that's going to happen (a pal of mine at NASA said they have cancel tours all the time when things change later on). That said, there were a lot of things cancelled for Orlando, more than I've heard from other conventions over the years.

I have met some that are, and some that are not. I take them one at a time, but yeah, I tire of people who use, "MMR" at the end of their name or reminding you of their status when they meet you. Like I care. I don't impress easily in that regard.

That's messed up but I'm 100% willing to believe it happened. Though not from this event, I know a guy who offered to help out with an NMRA event and was turned away as he was into On30 which he was told "is a scale nobody takes seriously, and nobody into it is worth a second look," which an organizer even left on his voice mail. I heard it myself! Needless to say, he'll never offer to lift a finger to help them ever again.

I heard some snob comments about On30 in Portland from someone who claimed to be an MMR, at the National train Show. I was going to say something, but another modeler got into the guy's face pretty fast, even offering to 'steap outside and discuss' the situation. I've never heard of a model railroader wanting to really throw down on another, but it almost came to that.

I have experienced that with other groups over the years. I tried volunteering for a museum near where I was starioned when I was still in the Army, and was told they had all the people they needed (old boys club for sure). The museum has since folded up and right before they did, I actually called them and said I was happy they were going under based on my experience with them. Petty? Yep, you betcha, but it felt great.

Hey, I'm only human.

Thankfully, that's been rare for me

Your milage may vary

Joe, you make a good point. I'm also in the Pacific NW and to be honest, I joined the NMRA only to attend the Portland convention (which became a moot point as I couldn't get any time off for it) but was very surprised at how I was so warmly welcomed as a new member. I've been a member of the NRHS since I was a teen (got my 25 year pin a few years back) and I was never welcomed by anyone in the ground the way the NRHS in the Pac NW did. I stayed with them due to that, even though I rarely can make their events (my problem, due to work, not theirs).

This why you should never draw a conclusion to any group based on a local experience. Frankly, growing up in Florida, I was never overly impressed with model railroaders in general (I had a terrible experience, which caused me to leave the hobby in disgust for several years, with a modular group there) until I moved to the Pacific NW. There's an overall decent bunch here.