I am all in !

Got my vote for one ! You are correct...massive locomotive with fascinating detail ! And of course...my beloved Vanderbilt tender.

Michael

They were sold to a couple

They were sold to a couple other railroads to if I recall.

i know the UP and I think the Rio Grande maybe?

So it is a rare large engine used by more then one railroad.

i know I could use a couple.

Of course I would rather see a K-3  but an H-7 would be nice.

-Doug M

C&O Brutes

Hi Michael and Doug,

Have fun! 

Kitbash....?????

Hey...

...they forgot to hang the kitchen sink on the smokebox!

Love it!

WOW!

WAY too big for my layout... and that said... I SO WANT ONE!!!!

I'm planning on building a nice display case, to show off historically significant engines (and some cars I'm especially proud of that are simply too big, and too wrong for my layout) The object, is to have a nice display, but, to be able to show them off running on my small layout as well (this is why my curves are quite wide for a small layout)

It will look nice in the case, and would be fun to run...

That was my dream 30 years ago... the shelf, and a layout to run em on... it's about time I got back to that, before expanding the payout (Oh, expansion *IS* happening... just as soon as I'm finished with what I'm doing so far)

Big Steam

 Got at least one each of all of those 'plastic models', plus the B&O EM1,......

......BUT no H7. Utilizing one of these to kitbash just might be an idea ?.....but an expensive one just to get some of those 'plumbing parts'

That was funny !

Kitbash w Brass Parts

I use to know a fellow back in the Balt/DC area that utilized brass detail parts added to plastic loco bodies to really 'detail them out',....great work, I even found a small switcher recently at an estate sale that had some brass detail work done on it. Hope it runs as good as it looks, but it does have an open-frame motor.

A brass H7 is about 1700-1900

A brass H7 is about 1700-1900 average.  Lowest I have seen was 900 highest was 2200

So kit bashing any plastic is going to be a relative bargain 

-Doug

Ok some basic info. 25 H7s

Ok some basic info.

25 H7s where ordered in 1924 from Alcohol  These are the first successful "mass produced" simple articulated engines (vs one off types).  They were produced as simple engines (vs compound) for the simple reason that the C&O did not have clearance for the huge cylinders on the front of a compound of this size.

These engines were also the fist time the C&O used the Flying Pumps on the front.  Again this was due to not having clearance on the sides for them.

in 1926 20 H7a s were ordered from Baldwin with some technical improvements.

of these 45 engines. 1 was scraped in 1943, 3 were sold to the RF&P in 1943 and 30 to UP in 1945.

By 43 they were old, in need of work and generally made obsolete by the mighty H8s that started arriving in 1941.

The UP engines were used pretty much as is (New paint and new number boards) As War time traffic in the pacific was swamping the UP. Eventually some changes were made to most of these and new tenders were used.

As far as I know the UP scared all of there's about 47

The RF&P Scraped there's about 49

And the C&O scraped the few remaining engines between 47 and 52.

During there Time on the C&O they had (I believe) two rectangular tenders (small and large) and some of them had two Vanderbilt tenders (long and short) The short Vanderbilt (match to a tender on Bachmanns H4) were mostly used in yard (hump) service. And on an ill fated attempt to rum these huge engines on Coal Branches.  The longer Vanderbilt tender (a match to that sold on the C&O heavy mountain by Bachman).  

The various tenders were replaced in a very confusing manor so that some engines had two types in there life, while most had 3 and a few had 4.  Very hard to keep track of.  So consult photos of what you want to model.

They have been released I think twice in HO brass.

As for Kitbashing.  A 2-8-8-2  by Proto would not be a bad starting place as the spacing and size of the drivers is pretty close.  But the trailing truck is all wrong and to close.  The boiler is to short and not shaped right,  non of the hardware is in the right spot and the cab is all wrong.  And the Cab is not even close.  Still that could be fixed if anyone ever figures out how to replace those huge front cylinders on the Y Class compound articulated.

You  could also try using two Backmann 2-8-0 drives under a new scratch built boiler.  The drivers are not too big but are spaced to far apart.  Either way the Long (VC-16) Vanderbilt tender is the only available option I know of. 

In case you are wondering I have given serious consideration to kitbsshing 1or Two. As I could use them as in 1943 they were still pretty common in the New River subdivision.

-Doug M

Basic Info

Thanks very much Douglas, that was a very interesting history of the H7,

Just the other day I found a brass H8 on Ebay that was in need of extensive repairs, but it was offered at a VERY attractive price. I bought it, and i am looking forward to seeing what parts off this loco I might utilize for kit bashing the H7.

I already have the long Bachman vandy tender set aside, and a method to install the speakers and decoder in that tender.
I have the C&O style flying pumps in brass castings and I even have a set of the plastic ones that Bachman utilized on their Mountain locos. 

I realize the trailing trucks of the Proto2K engine are wrong, and wonder where I might get one like that on the H7

i have the feed water heater in a brass casting.

Is the boiler really that much different between the two? Would all that extra 'stuff' added onto the outside of the boiler disguise this difference?
 

Interesting that the cylinders were the same size. It made me wonder when I saw the huge size of the steam pipes feeding those cylinders,...they seem somewhat bigger in diameter than on most other locos?? It made me think it was some sort of compound engine at one point. I wondered how these might be sourced.

H7 was never a compound. It

H7 was never a compound. It was designed as a simple engine because the clearances on the C&O were such that large diameter cylinders would not fit through their tunnels at the time.

In contrast the Virginian built to much more generous standards was able to run these.

The Virginian loco is on the bottom, it was so large it was shipped with out being completely assembled as it could not travel over other lines from the factory. Notice the man standing next to the cylinders between the two sets of drivers.

The H7 was a way for the C&O to get powerful locomotives for its railroad and still make them fit through the restrictive points on the railroad. It was not long after the H7s that the C&O began a big improvement program to its lines.

Man vs Loco size

That  is an impressive photo with the size of the man next to the loco. Really makes one rethink the massive size of these brutes.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Boiler Size

Yes Doug I can now see that the boiler of the Proro 2K engine is definitely too short,...needs to extend further forward.

Would the boiler of an Allegheny model be a better match, both size and cab wise?? I have a Allegheny 'for parts' loco coming in the mail.

I believe a couple of my Proto 2K 2-8-8-2 came with 2 sets of cylinders, one set or compound version and one set for simple. Or maybe that was the Proto version for the Virginian?  can't remember exactly, but I do seem to remember one of these Proto models came with two sets of front cylinders. 

I'm not near by my collection of trains, so i can't check on it for now.

I suspect the Allegheny

I suspect the Allegheny boiler would be too large, length might be correct but diameter would likely be off a good bit. There was a book on the C&O that covered their steam and diesel  power and I might be wrong but think it could have been by Dixon or Hudleston. If memory serves me I believe it devoted a page or three to the major locomotives on the line. I will take a look and see if I can find it in all the other books.

Yeah I have them all.  I have

Yeah I have them all.  I have looked into from multiple directions.

if you are think about doing this conversion then there is a book you need to buy.  It was put out in conjunction with one of the brass HO scale models and has an HO scale drawing,  when I get a chance I will pull the book and put the name on here.

iirc it was not very expensive (it is a thin book landscape format)  Dedicated solely to the H7

As fir the cylinders  I have never seen a proto 2000 that had a way to swap them.  And being as the proto 2000 2-8-8-2s are all based on NW Y Class engines I have no idea why they would have that as I believe all the Ys where compound engines.

Well keep me in the loop if I could get an H7 that didn't cost a small fortune I would be very interested.  But right now I don't see a way around the cylinder issue.

-Doug 

Look forward to seeing that

Look forward to seeing that 'book' title Doug. Then it will be a question as the where I might find a copy?

When I get back home to FL I will look up those parts I sent to the guy that was going to kit-bash one for me. He ended up sending all of my stuff back to me that I had sent to him,... in one batch. So it's all together in one box, and I'm pretty sure those cylinders are in that batch of stuff.

Won't be back home till mid/late Sept,...road trips and seeing old friends

differences in the Y3 and the Y6B

Maybe not directly related to our conversation about the Virginian, but I found this interesting,...and particularly the two phots that were linked showing so different size cylinders.

Virginian Railway 2-8-8-2 Mallet Articulated Compound Steam Loco

http://www.wvrailroads.net/images/1/10/Virginian_Railway_2-8-8-2_Class_AB_Mallet.jpg

The book is called

The book is called "Chesapeake &a Ohio H7 series". By Classic Power 1 in conjunction with NJ international inc.

it was written by Thomas W Dixon written in 1979.  The book is in many ways the definitive book on the H7

They can be found on Albris a huge used book clearing house online.  And often on EBay.  I payed around 20 but it looks like they are running about $35 right now.  Still it has background, photos, and drawings in a couple scales.

-Doug M

book

Just found a copy on amazon for $19,...ordered it

Good price That  is about

Good price

That  is about what I paid years ago.

i think this book will give you a lot of information.  Now if you can figure out the front cylinder issue...

-  Doug

Good price That  is about

Good price

That  is about what I paid years ago.

i think this book will give you a lot of information.  Now if you can figure out the front cylinder issue...

-  Doug

Front Cylinders

Well we know the actual C&O locos were not compound and did not utilize the larger cylinders.

If I remember correctly I chose my 'Virginian' version of the Proto 2-8-8-2 to do my kitbashing, as it had the two sets of different size cylinders. My other 2-8-8-2 did not. At the time I was unaware that the H7 did not have bigger cylinders on the front. I believe I even sold off the Virginian tender to that loco as I intended to utilize a Vanderbilt tender.

I tried looking up the older 2-8-8-2 locos to see if any mention was made in the difference of Proto's versions of the engines that were originally sourced from Roco in Europe. But I could not find any such references in my brief look via google.