Gary Yurgil

I have just purchased three wooden rolling stock kits at a local train swap meet (pictured is a Streamline Swift Reefer) and have a LOT of questions.  I have searched the internet and MRH on how to make a wood kit, with limited success.  Most are a step by step of the assembly, with little of the technical aspects.  In the past, I have used whatever I had on hand, and it shows.  I have grouped my questions into three parts.

PREPARING

What is the best method?  There are a number of discussions on sealing vs. priming the wood with everything from Krylon grey primer to acrylic paint to lacquer to shellac.  I'm leaning to the shellac right now.  But let's say I decide on brushing it with enamel paint, or whatever.  Do I have a piece of wood, or have I created a hard piece of enamel?  This leads to my real quandry. 

GLUING

If I seal the wood, the glue will not work as well as on bare wood.  I can make the reefer car without sealing by gluing the wood parts and leaving off the roof, then varnish the inside.  Then how do I attach the roof?  I think that Elmer's glue works well with wood on wood, but does it work on shellacked wood on shellacked wood?  Or acrylic painted wood on acrylic painted wood?  So what comes first, the chicken or the egg, I mean the sealing or the glue?  And what glue?  Elmer's or Aleene's or carpenters?  Or Titebond I or II or III?  And that is just wood to wood.  What about the various sealed or primed or painted surfaces?

PAINTING

So now I have a combination of sealed/primed/glued surfaces.  This opens up a whole new discussion of what paint or finish goes with what.  Let's say I use shellac and Titebond.  Can I paint over it with acrylic or enamel?  Can I then finish it with Dullcoat?  I've read little tidbits like stay with the same brand, but I would like a more comprehensive article on what does or does not go with what.  I apologize ahead of time for my complete lack of knowledge.

Swift.jpg 

Gary - HO wanabe

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ctxmf74

 "I apologize ahead of time

Quote:

 "I apologize ahead of time for my complete lack of knowledge." 

Don't feel bad, this is a question without an answer:> )    These old kits were designed in a time of different glues and paints as well as different modeling standards and expectations.  It depends on how much time you want to spend on building one and how well you want to finish it. In practice most of them were just glued together and painted with little care taken sealing the parts. Inside a house with controlled moisture there was usually no problems, I've seen them split open and warped though when left in the wrong place for years. Now days there are a lot more options such as epoxy glue, CA, etc. so you'll have to decide what you are comfortable with and how much trouble you want to take with assembly.  I'd just put one together the same way I did as a kid with white glue and paint on the wooden parts and not worry about the interior surfaces but I know the limitations of the process and my interest.......DaveB 

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Brent Ciccone Brentglen

Wood

I have never sealed any of the wood kits I have built and have had no problems. Use carpenters yellow glue or white glue to put it together. I do spray it with an automotive primer once assembled, if necessary a bit of sanding after that and then the final coat of paint, brush painted. Unlike a steel car, you actually want an uneven finish, just like the real things, individual boards took paint differently and faded differently, so we want some differences in the finished product.

Brent Ciccone

Calgary

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dwtrains

Walthers Goo - Many years ago

When I was young (late 50's early 60's) my father had a number of these type of kits from different sources.
I stil have a few of these kits. Mostly Walther's 60ft passenger cars, The glue I remembered always using was Walther's Goo. We never primed or painted the inside of the car and I still have some assembled cars that look as good as they did way back when.

As Brent mentioned glue the wood parts together with any of the new and better adhesives available today, Sealing or priming the inside of the car is a personal choice. I still wouldn't go that far. As far as glue seams and paint - you aren't going to be staining the wood pieces you'll paint them and glue seams will disappear. Any appropriate color paint will work solvent or water based.

Once painted - let it dry for 3 or 4 days to fully harden the paint -  then Dullcoat it or use any other of the flat coatings that are available. These 'old' kits can make a very nice looking car. A little time and effort and they'll look better than any of the RTR cars out there

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Neil Erickson NeilEr

Wood kits

I have built a number of wool kits and seldom have problems with most glues and use white glue, pva (waterproof glue), ca, and contact cement. The latest kit is an old O scale narrow gage boxcar. What glue used to attach the sides and roof warped so badly that it looked like a model of ocean waves. The roof was scraped off and sanded smooth but the sides were coerced back into shape with ca and some blocks with ribber bands. 

Before gluing the new roof pieces in place I will prime both sides (or use sanding sealer). Lesson learned. Haste makes waste. Go figure. 

Neil Erickson, Hawai’i 

My Blogs

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Gary Yurgil

"What" glue

Hi Neil.  What glue did you use that warped your model?

Gary - HO wanabe

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Neil Erickson NeilEr

Elmers White Glue

The white glue is my "go-to" for most wood models but the thin sides and roof just soaked it up like sponges. The next morning was quite a surprise and I thought that a few blocks and rubber bands would help it settle but didn't seem to work. I'll post doing this after priming the new roofing and then using a contact cement. We'll see!

Neil Erickson, Hawai’i 

My Blogs

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Gary Yurgil

DUCO cement

My Swift reefer side and end panels are almost paper thin.  I just bought a can of Sanding Sealer on sale at Ace Hardware and am going to try that.  I feel that I will not have a 100% wood product afterwards, so I will try DUCO Cement instead of the various carpenter glues.

Gary - HO wanabe

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Neil Erickson NeilEr

Some progress on repairs

I am curious how the sanding else worked with the Duco. You had me thinking about my box roof and decided to score some 1/32" bass wood to replace the mess I tore off. It was given a coat of minwax first, since that's all I had, and then scored and cut to lengths. The Duco cement had a hard time at first but I let it dry a little and added a second coat and weighted down the roofing overnight. I did this over the last few days, a little at a time between other projects, and it seems to be holding it's shape this time. 

 Not sure how I'll weather the roof but it can wait until the roof walk and hardware are on. 

IMG_1454.JPG   IMG_1456.JPG 

Neil Erickson, Hawai’i 

My Blogs

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IrishRover

My one build

I did my first wooden car kit--one of the old Ambroid kits--because I got it cheap.  I need to go back and finish up the details, but, in case my first build should be useful, here's the link: http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/27158

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Jackh

Brass L strips

I use brass L strips if they will be hidden from view. Gue them in with CA. Haven't had a warp issue since I started using them no matter how thin the wood is.

It occurs to me that the same might work with using strip wood and making your own L's much like using L girders for benchwork.

Jack

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dark2star

Sealing and gluing with epoxy

Hi,

recently I've seen epoxy used both for sealing and for gluing wood. I could imagine it to work - sealing all the inside surfaces with epoxy and afterwards using the epoxy for glue.

Does anyone have experience with epoxy and wooden model railroad kits?

Anyway, I hate the stuff, even though I keep having to use it to repair the kids' toys...

Have fun!

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ctxmf74

"Does anyone have experience

Quote:

"Does anyone have experience with epoxy and wooden model railroad kits?"

    I used a lot of epoxy building boats years ago but I wouldn't bother with it for a model train car unless you plan to run it in the rain :> )  It's not pleasant stuff to work with compared to Elmer's glue or Titebond. I've also saturated wooden cars with CA glue to seal them but again it's overkill for something sitting on a layout or in a display case.......DaveB 

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Gary Yurgil

Lessons Learned

Hey Irish Rover, I really enjoyed your link with the caboose.  Liked your first Lesson - glue sticks to paint, but only as well as the paint sticks to the wood.  I also will probably go with your advice on the Tichy bolsters.  And all those parts that need to be shaped and sanded!

Gary - HO wanabe

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Gary Yurgil

Progress

I finally got around to making the reefer and am about 1/3 done. I'm amazed at the little pieces (roof ribs, door hardware, chains). It's been a lot of trial and error with adhesives.  I used Titebond for the 4 main pieces.  Then for everything else I first tried some cheap CA glue, which didn't work so well.  I used a coupon at Michaels for some Loctite Professional CA and that seems to work okay.  Duco cement was not very good and E6000 was better.  I know this doesn't come close to any prototype and looks very amateurish, but I'm having fun and can at least say "I built it" as opposed to my Athearn and Roundhouse cars.

efer%201.JPG 

efer%202.JPG 

Gary - HO wanabe

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ctxmf74

Looking good!

Quote:

"I know this doesn't come close to any prototype and looks very amateurish, but I'm having fun and can at least say "I built it" as opposed to my Athearn and Roundhouse cars."

    actually I think these old wooden kits can better replicate the vibe of the old cars than a shiny plastic kit can. I used to play on real cars similar to these when I was a kid and they were pretty crude and rough up close. ..DaveB

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Neil Erickson NeilEr

Older Kits

I really like these old kits and have had my trials and tribulations with various glues as well. Wood glue for the wood sides and roof was a disaster as the thin scribed wood just warped. A second attempt with rubber glue wa a success after giving up on CA which just got sucked up like a sponge. Metal or plastic to wood with CA was better but a little epoxy is easy and woks great.

In the future I’ll stain all the wood first and let it dry completely. Primer and paint will cover glue stains but I like to build with wood so it looks like wood! Some kits have nice piping and brake line details as castings. These can be very small and brittle so taking it slowly over several sitings works best for me. No rush. 

Neil Erickson, Hawai’i 

My Blogs

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j Miller1947

Old Wood Kits

Back in the 1970s I buillt several wood car kits and scratch built others using the "Dollar Car" articles in MR.

I found Duco Cement was the best glue to use.  I smeared some Duco along the edges to be joined, let it dry, and then cemented the parts together..  I even used it on the cardboard RedBall car sides,  and, 40+ years later, I still have most of those cars.  They never warped or failed otherwise, even though they were never sealed.

 

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Neil Erickson NeilEr

Had to look

Yup. Those are still on my work bench! I’d forgotten the name. Duco: 

12B37A5.jpeg 

Neil Erickson, Hawai’i 

My Blogs

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Warflight

Wood car kits...

I have been running across a LOT of classic wood car kits on eBay, and at the local hobby shop on the cheap lately... I don't know if that means they are making a come back? I do know, that, as someone pretty fresh back into the hobby (I was in it 30 years ago, but couldn't really do a lot then... 30 years later, I'm back) I know that myself, personally, I'm quite interested in the older wood kits.

What I can't seem to find, are build videos, or newer articles on building the older wood kits. Sure, I can find old issues of model train magazines that tackle it, but nothing new. There are plenty of videos on building older resin kits, and newer plastic kits... but for a modeler like myself, who loves a good kit to kill an afternoon, I'd LOVE to see some instructional videos on building some of these classics. I would LOVE to see Pierre on TMTV do an old wood kit. I can imagine some of the newer things folks can do today to make them just pop, with just the perfect amount of detail.

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