Modern system

You just described Railpro.

-Kevin

RailPro does it all

Just the thing to do all that was mentioned and then some.  No more CV's to break into a sweat over just to run a bunch of engines. It's all in one being able to control all accessories too. Then there is the screen showing everything. Sounds like a very good answer to the antiquated DCC that had it's day just like 8 tracks, reel to reel etc.. Cheers

Thoughts...

Dear Doug,

With utmost respect, it sounds like you've got an awfully heavy load to bear on the subject,
can't help but wonder which specific DCC make/model system beat you up soo badly for soo long,
as to prompt this train-of-thought...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to lay your troubles down and rest your weary mind,
Prof Klyzlr

PS There are a number of "long-standing"/"traditional" commercial DCC systems which would appear to already address a number of the Givens and Druthurs noted...

Not Railpro exactly...it does

Not Railpro exactly...it does not use standard dcc decoders. ESU makes the system you are describing...the  ECoS 50210 with Mobile Control 11 controller. 

Just wish I had the funds to purchase this system.

RailPro

RailPro doesn't quite do this. It removes the need completely because the handset communicates directly with each locomotive by radio, and each locomotive communicates with each other locomotive directly too. There is no central radio location at all. There are repeaters that can be employed around the layout if required.

RailPro is an outstanding, robust, and flexible system that allows you to run your power on anyones layout without interfering with whatever system is employed on that layout. Locomotives are speedmatched automatically in real time and it works as advertised. RailPro is also ideal for deadrail. The system is being actively developed and advanced, although not always as fast as the userbase would like.

When Model Railroaders like Lee Nicholas (UTAH COLORADO WESTERN) are making wholesale changes from other systems on large layouts to RailPro, you know it's serious. And with input from users with huge rosters like Lee, even greater innovation is coming. Big things are in store for this already fantastic system.

You can learn More about RailPro on Ring Engineerings site: http://www.ringengineering.com/RailPro.htm

You can explore pricing on my website: https://pdc.ca/rr/catalog/product/railpro-and-accessories/51

You can connect with RailPro users on the RailPro User Group: https://rpug.pdc.ca/

You can see RailPro in action on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=RailPro+Ring

And when you install RailPro in a few locomotives, you can forget about all that confusing and complicated DCC business.

The system you're dreaming of is here today Doug.

To get started, you don't even need to buy the complete system, all you need it the $35 computer inteface (CI-1) and an LM-3 or LM-3S module. You can get your feet wet for about $100. Of course to really experiance the freedom that comes with RailPro you'll want the Wireless Handset too, but you can come later.

Cheers!

RailPro

Bill and others interested.

FWIW Lee did not move from DCC to RailPro but from Rail-Lynx to RailPro.   Rail-Lynx uses full DC power on the tracks with an Infrared decoder in each loco and a simple hand held IR throttle.

From there RailPro is a giant step forward.  

Dave

First off I do believe I said

First off I do believe I said DCC I don't recall saying anything about a proprietary non DCC system.  I have been down that path before and to those of you on it today... Good luck, but leave me off of it.  It is bad enough that we have the basic DCC systems that are not compatible with each other but I don't need to have to replace all my receivers in my engines too.

The point of the thread is very simple.  DCC is constantly being blamed for the faults of the manufacturers.  You can take any of the more commonly available (in the US) dcc systems Digitrax, NCE, CVP,  and Lenz and they are pretty much selling today the same system they sold 20 or so years ago.  Yes they have updated the command station a bit but they use the same god awful user interface they used in the past.  And in general they have done a bare minimum of improvement over the years.  And I am willing to bet that most of the time the improvements in the command station where probably as much because it was uneconomical or impossible to stay with the older electronics as the years went past.  I don't recall anyone making a meaningful upgrade to give the user a better experience. 

As for what system I have pretty much owned or used them all over the years.  My personal experience includes (pre DCC) CTC16 (or whatever number it was) Onboard and one other I forget the name of.  As food DCC I have used or still use all four mentioned above.  And they all have issues. 

Lenz, a reasonable dependable system that pretty much started DCC has no native radio option and has pretty much done nothing for so long that I was questioning their commitment well before the 87 convention.  So much so that the distrusted at the time took me to talk with the owner.  

NCE seames to have the best selection of handsets and I think they now allow for multiple receivers for the radios but don't quote me.  If I was starting out today they would be my pick.

CVP. Has easy to use handsets but for me and many others the wider design of there more resent hand sets make the difficult to use one handed if you have smaller hands.  The older style which they are bring back fit better.  Big downside is that some of there handsets it is impossible to tell what number is selected.  It does have a very good range on the radio. But until recently it was limited to 8 handsets.  Now it has a second set of frequencies available so this has improved.  Note that the radio system iOS available for use with Lenz (not sure if the second frequency range is though).

Digitrax has probably the largest number of users and the most available accessories.  On the other hand it has perhaps the worst handsets on the market.  Oftentimes they are uncomfortable and confusing to there users.  I have seen peaple who have been dealers for decades get confused trying to set up something with there system.  They also have a few annoying issues with there older systems that I believe (hope) they have fixed with the latest upgrade to the hardware.  This is probably my second choice if I was starting out today.

All of these companies have an interface issue that in order to set various options in the system or in the Decoder you have to go through some extreme ritual selecting from various menus and what have you that is all but impossible to do without consulting a menu.  I have seen 4 to 6 folks who owned the system themselves take an hour to find a setting that needed to be reset in the command station in order to get it running again.  And this was with the manuals available.  Because the setting is only mentioned in on obscure place.  I have had an issue that I talked with the owner of the DCC manufacturer I was using at the time about and he blamed it on the Decoder.  A while later I was reading up on another version of the system he sold and in the manual it said how to fix my exact problem.  Note these two versions where both for sale at the same time.  As far as I know the manual for the base DCC system still does not mention this problem or how to fix it.  As I ran into an owner that the just had bought the system and he had the same problem!

All these issues are a problem with the user interface,  And they all stem from the fact that these systems have for all intents and purposes not changed in 20 plus years.  What could be done then and what was acceptable then is not reasonable to expect today.  But we still use these as there are few other options and everyone blames "DCC" instead of the manufacturers.  It is time someone takes readily available technology of today and shines what're can be done with a DCC system (note DCC not proprietary systems like rail pro).

Byt one way or the other we should stop blaming the NMRA and its DCC standards just because the manufacturers will not or can not spend the time and resources to give us a reasonable modern interface.

Not to say that the NMRA does not share in the blame here.  as if they had issued a layout standard when they issued the DCC standard we would most likely have a much better system available as each company had to compete directly for each component.  Thus the best handset, the best booster and the best command station (or at least the moist popular) would have sold better so the manufacturer would have had to upgrade to compete. 

But either way what we have now is a situation where we living in the modern world and having to use what is really and old system that lacks any modern features.

With today's technology there is no reason we don't have a graphic user interface available for a DCC system.  And yes I realize that Decoder Pro is trying to fill the gab but that just proves my point.  When there is enough demand that a bunch of volunteers have put together a better interface than any of the "for profit" companies.

-Doug M.

Proprietary?

If you think DCC isn't proprietary, you're fooling yourself.

If each system wasn't proprietary, then you could use NCE throttles on a LENZ system or any other one.

DCC systems are proprietary. The part that is not proprietary is the decoders. Yes, DCC is an open standard, and there are many manufacturers making units compatible with this standard, but the DCC standard is outdated and crippled. Exactly as you said: "what we have now is a situation where we living in the modern world and having to use what is really and old system that lacks any modern features."

RailPro is a Modern System with Modern Features.

You ask: "But really is the problem with DCC or with the systems currently being sold?" As in understand it, Ring Engineering began development of a graphical, wireless control for DCC many years ago and determined DCC was the problem. RailPro was his solution which addresses all of what you have described and more.

@Prof, yes, you are correct, Lee was using a non-dcc system before too, but the point is that it is possible to make a wholesale change from a system you are heavily invested in to RailPro. I think the fact that Lee chose RailPro over DCC speaks volumes. Lee is not the only big layout owner making such changes.

You get (kind of) what you pay for

The ESU ECoS has a large touchscreen display and optional wireless throttles with its own touchsrceen, supplying 7 amps. Like most ESU made stuff most upgrades are software. It retails for US$ 799, though you may find around US$ 600. Extra throttle extra US$ 300, total price for the command station and wireless throttle: US$ 840 to 1100.

Digitrax DCS 210 command station, duplex receiver and DT500D throttle. Total cost: US$ 530 to US$ 660.

There are options for what you demand, but they come at extra expense. Also worth taking notice is that modelers themselves can be pretty loyal to a brand/system, and it will influence other modelers. I have a NCE PowerCab for my home layout, which I believed had all I needed at a good price, however recently I purchased a digitrax DT500D since that is what the local club uses, and if I want to run trains there that is the throttle I need to use (either the DT or the UT series). If the club had chosen another system that would be the throttle I would need.

Regards,

ESU

Then it sounds like ESU's ECoS system is what you're looking for.

-Kevin

Putting a graphical interface on an existing system

AFAIK the ESU ECos has a nice display but unlike DecoderPro you program each single CV with a digit.

It reminds me of the Apple Mac surface and windows. Apple was programmed from the beginning with the graphical interface. Windows was a graphical extension to MS-DOS and it showed.

Microsoft had to redo the complete operating system to get it working reasonably well.

The same might happen if the DCC manufacturer try to put a graphical interface on top.
Regards, Volker

ECoS

I think ECoS is as close as you're going to get to what you want.  I don't have one but I'm strongly considering it in the future.  While some programming you are still using CV's, there is a lot of extra functionality for basics that you can do to make the interface really easy to use.  Combine it with the LokProgrammer software, and you have a very powerful programming tool.

Here is a sample of how to set up a loco in ECoS...

RailPro

Doug,

As others have already pointed out what you are describing exists almost in its entirity with RailPro. Having been a former Digitrax user that was heavily invested in Command Stations, Boosters, LNRP's, UR91/92, UP-5's, JMRI, Loco-net, etc I can tell you first hand the change from DCC to RailPro was akin to going from a rotary telephone to an iPhone. 

Good luck in your search.

Jacob

Price (Edited, see RailPro section)

There are a lovely next generation system out there with big screens and all that - ECoS. The problem comes when you compare the prices to the "old standards." 

The ECoS control station is $749 or so retail. I think it's $999 MSRP. 4 Amp boosters come in at $295-ish. For their wireless system add $350 for the first throttle and receiver and $260 per throttle after that - up to 4 throttles per receiver module. And those look like big, two handed throttles. With large screens. As for MobleControl II (I believe I saw the first one at an NTS a few years back), it's not out yet that I can see. I really hope to get the opportunity to play with one at the NTS in a week and a half. Maybe Matt can show me what I'm missing. 

Price to get going wirelessly: $1395

Now, one thing should probably be understood before I go on. I don't program command stations. I program locomotive decoders. And for that I have Decoder Pro. I think I have one device out there with an accessory decoder (a Tam Valley Singlet Servo setup) but I just use the pushbuttons on the fascia. Therefore, for me, a command station is a box that sits there. Most of the classic systems are of that format, although CVP's CS2 and Digitrax's Zephyr have built in throttles as well. 

Now, for the system I have - EasyDCC. Direct sales only, also a quite ugly website. To get started you're going to want the Wireless Starter System, which includes the command station, ZoneMaster single booster (7A), 7 feet of cabling, a rather amazing manual, a T5000E wireless throttle, and a wireless receiver. And the transformers to power all that. $529. Want additional throttles? T5000'Es are $159 apiece, or if you want the new ops throttle T1300E (no LED screen) it's $129. That's pretty much the baseline for classic DCC systems. And the throttles are nice - and the only piece of the system that a user should be interacting with. One thing - you'll need a USB-Serial adapter to get the command station talking to JMRI/Decoder Pro. 

Price to get it going wirelessly: $529

NCE (don't get me started on their website...) has the Power Pro (PH-PRO-R) wireless 5 Amp starter set with the system box, Pro cab (aka hammerhead) throttle, cabling, UTP cab bus panel, radio base station/w antenna, and manuals for $699.95 MSRP. Another hammerhead runs you $249.95, and a Cab06pr "operator throttle" which has an LED screen, is $189.95. 

Price to get it going wirelessly: $699.95 (MSRP)

Digitrax recently introduced a new starter set, the Evolution Advanced 5A/8A Duplex starter set. It includes everything including a DT500D Super LocoNet throttle to get going. One mildly snarky thought - a starter set that includes a cable and decoder test kit makes me wonder about the level of ease in assembly. 

Price to get going wirelessly: $660 MSRP. 

Because Bill B. brought it up, RailPro starts out as the least expensive with a starter kit for only $399 (MSRP, $299 at PDC).  However  - you still aren't going, because any DCC decoders you have just went obsolete (hopefully you can sell them). LM-3's (no sound) are $59.95 ($46 PDC) and LM-3S's (with sound) are $99.99 ($73 PDC). So your startup cost with it depends on the number of locomotives you want running. The nice thing is that you can use RailPro and DCC simultaneously, which avoids the need for an all-or-nothing transition. You can also use your computer as a RailPro throttle with the $39.99 ($34.50 PDC) CI-1 computer interface. Additional throttles are only $299 ($224 PDC) as well.

******Edit********

It was brought to my attention that I wasn't quite comparing apples to apples, or at least I was comparing Granny Smith to Golden Delicious here. This is because I left out the price of the DCC decoders from the other estimates but included the modules here for RailPro. That's a valid point. These days a fairly basic "plug in" decoder, which is what you'll need on most DCC ready locomotives, is going to run you about $25. You might be able to find them cheaper. So assuming that you are starting from scratch, you'll need to add that price to all of the DCC systems. Or anywhere from $85 - $115 or so for sound.  As for why I  priced it in in the first place for RailPro and not the DCC systems - nearly all the locomotives I buy come with decoders installed, and someone who already has DCC will have their locomotives with decoders installed. So my default thought was that to convert to RailPro, the user would first have to remove the existing decoder and install the module. But if you do not have existing decoders, that point does not apply. 

******Edit*******

Price to get it going wirelessly: $460 (MSRP) or $372 (PDC) with one non-sound locomotive and one throttle. 

Obviously the classic manufacturers have a price advantage in the pure DCC field. Frankly, $1400 is a large pill to swallow for what is the minimum wireless setup. CVP has a built-in computer interface and I think that NCE does too. ECoS can be networked at the very least.

If you were starting from scratch, buying non-sound equipped locos that have a JST-9pin connector in them (largely Athearn), RailPro should be very attractive. They also have wiring harnesses for hardwiring. I wonder if they'll come up with a direct board replacement module as well?

So, let me see this list of items for the modern DCC system: 

A modern DCC system should in this day have a touch screen interface for programming and setting up the system. It would also help for things we do during an operating session such as setting up and breaking down a consist.  It should also have a simple on and off.  All of these would improve the interface to something reasonable for today.  I should not have to press three buttons while standing on one leg just to get the system to turn on.  

Question: why a touch screen? They're rather on the expensive side. As for setting up and breaking down consists, I think this one point is the basis of most people's issues with DCC. I agree that manufacturers need to simplify this - Decoder Pro can do it, but it's not the most convenient thing in the middle of an op session, and I understand that NCE is pretty good at it. But I also think that this ability should be limited somehow - either with specific throttles, direct command station access, or Decoder Pro.

Care needs to be taken when consisting, because not all locomotives are matched. I went to try and consist a LokSound Select equipped Atlas MP15DC with a non-sound equipped Atlas MP15DC and it was a no-go - because the LokSound has a pause to build up the prime mover sounds before starting, and I had no way of getting that other decoder (I think it was a TCS M1P-SH) to imitate that pause and then match speeds. I'm unlikely to ever not have a variety of decoders in my locomotives. 

A modern system should have a default built in computer interface. 

Agreed. It should also be a USB interface, possibly ethernet, but I think that's introducing unnecessary complexity. The ability to talk to JMRI obviates most of the need for the first item. 

A modern system should come with LCC built in.  

Right now, that's nobody, I think. Good idea though.

A modern system should be wireless to the hand sets and these hand sets should never have to be plugged in.  These handsets should have an easy and obvious way to be turned on and off.  And they should show you what Decoder number they are running.  (I don't care how) as a person should be able to see what engine a handset is running not have to guess,  I have seen some set down a handset and pick up the wrong one way two often.  Hundreds or thousands of dollars of potential damage should not rest on "guessing" what engine is set to what handset.

I see someone with Digitrax simplex shaped scars on tender body parts here.... frankly, I agree with this.  I have a CVP T1300E and I like it, but after you put the loco ID in, you have no way of knowing what it's programmed for. I've also decided the encoders are for the birds - I prefer pentiometers. That said, if I pick up a throttle where there is the slightest chance it's not the one I put down, the first thing I'm going to do is flip the headlights off and on to check. I also avoid having tracks that lead directly to long falls to the floor. 

A modern system should have the ability to put receivers for the wireless handsets at various locations as the room size/shape and interference can make one receiver not enough.

I would prefer a system that didn't need additional receivers because the system was good enough to only need one. If my wi-fi can cover my house, through walls and all, why can't my DCC system? How about this instead: Wireless receivers should be connected to the command station via a LCC bus.  

A modern System should have a reasonable ergonomic hand set available 

They are called Ops throttles and I think all classic manufacturers have them. They generally (NCE excepted) fail the loco ID test. ECoS does not have this - I'll have to see the Mobile Control II to see if it qualifies as ergonomic. It looks a lot like my old smartphone with a big box attached for the knob. Frankly RailPro's size is pushing some serious limits as far as ergonomics is concerned. That was a big box to fit in my hand. 

A modern system does NOT need wired handsets.

Total agreement on this. 

Let me add one additional thing: all network (LCC, Throttle, Booster, wireless receiver, KumquatNet, whatever) connections should use the standard TIA/EIA 568B wiring standard, also known as standard ethernet cables. You know, the kind you can pick up for a few bucks from 6 to 25 or more feet at nearly any store with an electronics department. Sure, you might need to actually label things, but that's only for the good. Personally, I'm in favor of color coding. I'm sick and tired of this 6-wire stuff... 

It comes down to expectations

I just bought a control system, as a matter of fact it came in the mail today. I am not a long time model railroader. The only train I ran, other than real switchers (MP15DC almost 40 years ago), was a Tyco I had put on a board for my son some 35 years ago. I retired last year and my wife and I decided we wanted a hobby we could work on together. I say all that to say this, I did quite a bit of research on different systems and listened to the experts, you guys, the one who have ran this stuff. You tell the good the bad and the ugly. We've watched probably a hundred videos on building railroads, again I've only built real ones (I managed mining operations in Florida for 37 years), but the basics are the same.

Mr. Meyer is right on track (no pun intended) about old technology in today's world. As I understand it, the DCC systems piggyback a 1mhz square wave on a low voltage DC constant carrier signal. This technology was designed about the same time as microcomputers, and I'm not talking IBM (we called them mini's back then). It was built before Intel figured out how to put 100,000 components on a 1 square inch wafer. If we compare one of those computers to the ones today, well, it's no comparison. Radio technology came along about the same speed, which is actually what this whole discussion is about, technically.

Mr. Shultz is also right on track. Pricing is kind of everywhere, depending upon what you look at. He is also very correct fi someone already owns, or has already purchased a full DCC locomotive or an aftermarket decoder. If I were converting an existing system things might be different but, don't we all look at the slight used or bargain deals on eBay? We're not paying full price if we can help it.The only way I could do an actual comparison was to look at it as I was purchasing decoders for DCC ready locomotives, or heaven forbid, converting old DC engines. When I drew that line, and listening to you guys, I only focused on some of the more popular, i.e. Digitrak, NEC and, while it's not actually DCC, RailPro. I looked at only wireless systems, which you really have to ask the seller if it is. The prices were actually similar. Digitrak was the lowest followed by RailPro then NEC, which were not exactly close second and third. When I added in decoders/modules they kind of swapped around a little but, you and I aren't going to get a system for $400 ready to run either. I figured that out pretty quick. We're fooling ourselves if we don't count spending $240 for a DCC locomotive instead of spending $150 for a DCC ready and adding a $130 high end decoder. Sound is expensive.

This afternoon I unplugged 2 Athearn decoders and plugged in 2 RailPro LM-3Ss. It was as simple as that. I set them on the track. The controller found them (wireless of course). I selected the first one, switched through a couple of screens, coupled a car the the back and held it while the controller ran it up to full speed measuring the amps (actually milliamps), which took 3 seconds. I took my hand off the car, turned the knob and the engine turned on it's headlights and started off under full control. The second engine set up exactly the same (one pulled 391ma and the other pulled 472ma). They tell me, because of that test, which is the only one the system does, I can now run these two in a unit train and they will automatically load share.

You guys spoke and I listened. I heard your likes and dislikes. This afternoon, I didn't have to know anything about control variables, addresses or load sharing. I don't have to worry about dirty rails working as poor antenna (you can argue that point but that is how DCC works). I can call my locomotives "Jumpy" and "Browser" if I want and I'm not violating any numbering convention or limit. And, if the one-night-stand guys are right and RailPro just dies completely, I guess I can pull the modules and put the decoders back in, find a slightly used DCC controller and I'm back in business, or maybe just leave all that out and run DC only.

As I see it, the question now is how many engines can I run on a single block with bells and whistles going. You can ask but, I can tell you the answer you get depends upon who you ask. I guess I'll have to find out for myself.

Anyhow, I thank all you guys for expressing yourselves, your bragging and your complaints, good things and bad, and for helping me make my decision. After watching those two engines this afternoon, mama and I are ecstatic and looking forward to may years at our new day job.

PPatters

Hi PPatters After ready your

Hi PPatters

After ready your message. Railpro is that simple?

• RailPro LM-3Ss fit any DDC ready Loco?
• What about icons on the touch screen for loco, can you download them from the web?
• How many loco's can you have on one Railpro system?

At the moment I have a Digi Zephyr. Goes alright for the loco's I have (3 of them)

I do like the look of Railpro and ease of functions. As I'm not the best, when it comes to wiring/DCC.

Man's got to know his limitations.

Regards Phil

Why I still will stick with DCC

OK, yes at the moment, those DCC manufacturer's that have the biggest market share are "proprietary" when it comes to their command station and throttles.  However, I can buy "generic" boosters that will work with, say NCE's command station, and all of the decoders are interoperable with all of the other DCC brands out there.  So if for example NCE (which is what I have now) goes out of business, and the spare components become too expensive on the aftermarket to buy, I still can use DCC, I just would have to spend money to replace the throttles and command station (but hopefully the LCC Standard will aide with interoperablility and if not there is always JMRI!)  If Rail Pro goes out of business, what happens then?  I would have to eventually replace EVERYTHING.  It is the potential of the replacement costs that keeps me away from RailPro, no matter what the features are.  They are of no use if all of a sudden they are no longer in business for who knows what reasons.  It can happen, unfortunately, and had happened in the past with such a niche market.

Ken L.

Aye...

Dear Jeff S,

Glad I wasn't the only one who picked up on that...

...many of the stated "givens and druthurs" are already well-covered by other commercial offerings,
even if they are "older" in base design...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

That simple...

I expected it to be that simple from the propaganda and utube but, I'm still amazed at how simple it is.

The LM-3S should fit any DCC loco with a standard 9 pin connector. I've heard, and Bachmann states, the need to remove any RF filters, Bachmann's are a group of capacitors under the fuel tank that should be snipped off. RP is 100% radio. The LM-3S also includes a separate 6 pin connector which connects the speaker and any additional lighting. (I read the instruction sheet)

My install today was in Athearn's "Spirit of Mulberry" and "Spirit of Tampa" SD70Ms, which there are no photos. I took the Athearn pics, reduced them to 480x180 pixels and saved them as 24 bit BMP files on my laptop. The handheld will connect to the laptop with a USB cord and can upload the picts to the loco. I actually used RPs simulator on the PC to upload the picts. The handheld pulls the pic from the LM-3S after that. There are pics, sounds and lighting effects on the RP website for downloading using their Assistant software. Also, they tell me that I can take a photo of my engine and send it to them, they'll convert it to the correct format and email it back, sometimes same day.

I'm not sure. Since both DCC and RP can controllers can handle more locos than you and I can keep track of, I suspect as many as you can power. That is an unanswered question for both RP and DCC. As I understand power consumption, most of the Locos (even my old pancake motor DCs) pull between 1/3 and 1/2 amp at full load, a single Digitrak, NCE or RP 5 amp power supply should handle 7 to 15 running wide open. I've seen enough in these forums to say a sound card and speaker can increase the power draw to well over an amp each. In that case, you could run 5 on any of these systems at full throttle, with bells ringing, and trip the power supply when you blow the horn, or something close to that. I asked Ring Engineering that question and got the answer of 15 per power supply. If the LM-3S doesn't use more power for sound the it comes down to speakers. A 2 watt, which is large and loud, is 0.135 amps (watts/volts=amps) each so the number would probably be 12 or so per power supply. I've got 2 power supplies and expect to run everything I've got.

If I already had a system I probably wouldn't switch, which is where I suspect most people are. I started with a clean slate. Sorry for the long winded answer,

PPatters

Since we are making a wish list ...

Doug;

I have no object to much of your suggestions with one exception. I'm tired of running my trains like a video game or toy train. Our controllers/throttles are ugly and complicated but, more importantly, nothing like a locomotive throttle or backhead. I have three systems, two of which haven't been named, and wonder aloud why they are so expensive when an Arduino micro controller is less than five bucks. 

Setting up a decoder with a modern tablet (not android please) or computer doesn't bother me and the ease of modifying a cv should be nearly transparent. If I want more deacelleration then should I care if it is cv 3 or 4 and requires an input of 101 - a brief description and slider would do. After the decoder is configured I want to run a train with a throttle - not a button or a knob. I want a brake lever not a button.  I want the brake to push back and be responsive.  The engine sound should be based on how hard it is working and not manually decoupled from the speed to match the notch or Johnson Bar.  Feedback from the decoders are needed.

These things are possible with current technology. Setting up a decoder is what should be decoupled from the throttle. If you are making a wish list then all those who want to control their train like a video game can have the touch screen and icons. Give me a steam punk design and the electronics to simulate a locomotive. 

It Is That Easy

Phil:

Yes, it really is that easy. KPack and myself (TheMacJet) have several videos on youtube that highlight the simplicity of RailPro. It's worth a watch if you really are interested.

Jacob

RailPro installs

Dear Jacob,

Not to "throw down" by any stretch,
but I'd love to see how easy such an install is in a more "typical shortline/switcher" loco, say:
- Athearn HH era SW1500
- B'mann central-motor 44, 45, and 70 tonner

If a "simple install" needs a loco with more than 4 axles
(IE needs the size of an SD or F, rather than a SW or GP),

many modellers will consider themselves out-of-luck before they even crack the shell...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

A good point...

Prof is right, The RailPro Modules are not the smallest critters on the block.
They can be a real challenge to fit into smaller equipment, but it has been done - Although nothing as small as a trackmobile that I am aware of so far.

Railpro is useless to small

Railpro is useless to small scale modelers.

Let me know when it can do this:

DCC also come factory installed in the Bachmann N scale 44 tonners. The decoder shown above will even fit in Z scale locomotives.

Do you really want a control system manufacturer deciding for you what scale to model?