History and Direction

Here is some more information about where I started and what led me to the current design. I would love to get feedback from people on what you think. The very first version I built (and got working, except for a battery) looked like this:

The controls consist of the speed knob and a direction toggle switch. You're probably wondering how this could have worked with only two controls. The answer is quite simple--a cell phone. You can use a cell phone (or computer) to connect to the throttle via Wi-Fi in order to select the engine. I was also planning on having a small number of buttons or functions. I was thinking 5 buttons: 4 function buttons, plus a shift button so you can invoke a total of 8 functions.

Well, people didn't want to have to pull out their cell phone in order to select a new engine. So I moved on to the next design that included a keypad:

This version works very well. You can select an engine at any time. And you have 20 function keys available. However, I still got feedback from people that this wasn't enough. I needed to have a screen, and not having to use a cell phone to set up the throttle (connect to Wi-Fi and connect to JMRI) would also be nice. So, here is version 3:

I'm still working on getting the new screen-based user interface working (the cell phone interface still works).

Here is my question. What do people think about having to use a cell phone to initially connect the throttle to Wi-Fi and JMRI? And then do you want to have a screen that shows engine number?

By the way, the screen I ended up choosing is a color screen. It turns out they're less expensive these days than black and white LCD screens, and they don't use that much more power. But they make selecting options a whole lot easier.

John Socha-Leialoha (creator of the Blue Point turnout control)

Size

John, I've seen what you are working on, but it might help others if you gave the dimensions of the controller.

Don

Dimensions

Thanks Don. Good point. All versions are designed to fit into the Universal Throttle Pocket as lots of people have these. The latest design is 2.5" wide, 0.8" deep, and 5.5" tall. So not very big. Here is a rendering of it in a Throttle Pocket:

It could be a little thicker and still fit easily into the Throttle Pocket. In case you're wondering, I have the 3D models for the Throttle Pocket because I designed them too .

Great start!

1) I would not be bothered by using my cell phone to select an engine - in fact it would be my preference to separate the non-model portion from the throttle completely. A keypad needn't be used for functions. 

2) Check out the development of the ProtoThrottle. The idea that the throttle emulates an engine Is a very novel and clearly a popular idea. Knobs, selectors, switches, and throttle handles replicate the controls of a engine. I am not aware of an engine that had a dial throttle, for example. 

3) Possibly expand the functions to dedicated switches or buttons depending on the engine you enjoy modeling. I would want a steam backhead with throttle handle, Johnson bar, brake levers, bell and whistle "cords" of some type.

4) Leave non-engine related functions off the throttle and on the cell phone. Switches and communication with a dispatcher could be used by a conductor along with the engineer to move the train. 

Great idea and I wish you huge success. Please consider leaving the software as open source so others can advance your ideas as well.   

Big dial!

I am a fan of large dials... I use an EZ Commander, and when I do get a DCC system that does more, I have been liking the Zypher. I like having a dial or level to control my engines, rather than just push buttons... it feels better in my hands, and gives me the illusion of more control... sure, I know it's just an illusion, but then, I know a magic show is illusions as well, and I still love watching them... (even if I do know how the tricks are done)

So, yeah... I like the design, is what I'm saying.

Cellphones and Interfaces

Dear John,

This looks very interesting. Having to use a Droid phone to select a loco and "pair" it to the throttle is IMHO not a huge hardship, esp for direct crew<> loco FPS op scenarios. It could even be considered as a nice analog to the engineer having to start the shift as they step into the loco cab and insert their personal reverser handle into the control stand.

Question, how many GPIO pins are available on the throttle?

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Great concept

John,

I love this Throttle idea. My questions are: 

 Rechargeable battery or Conventional?

How many of these throttles can be used simultaneously?

Does it stay interfaced with the phone continuously in operation or simply just on start up/change of loco?

Does it need to have a phone to work, or can it use the PC or Tablet throttle?

And lastly..lol, Its wireless, so does it work off of the phone wifi or the Router wifi?

Thank You for looking into this concept! 

Terry

Dedicated cell phone

Our club members have bought cell phones from WalMart for less than US$22. We have our own WiFi and JMRI for connecting the phones to the layout. No cell plans are necessary.

@John - how would cost of your device and its features compare to my just buying one of these Androids to use instead of my cellphone?

DrJolS

Thanks for all the feedback

Neil, the discussion of Protothrottle is what encouraged me to post something here and start to get feedback. What they've done is really amazing, and very cool. I was tempted to try to incorporate what they're doing into my throttle. But decided to avoid feature creep and finish up what I have. I can always come out with updated firmware or a new version to support the types of things they're doing.

The decision on open source is something I want to hold off on until I have a deal with a manufacturer. I know what it's like to sell to and support customers (I started New Rail Models), and I don't want to do that again. I want to focus just on the product development. I have a day job that pays very well, so this is a side project.

Warflight, yes, that was the motivation for this project. I've used cell phones and I much prefer having a knob and direction switch over using a cell phone. Plus, the screen on my cell phone turns off frequently and then I have to enter a PIN to unlock it (policy applied by work because I get work email on my phone).

Prof Klyzir, I had to add an I2C I/O extender because I didn't have enough pins on the ESP-8266. That gave me 16 extra I/O pins. So I have about  8 left over. It sounds like you have something in mind. Care to share?

Terry, ah, I forgot to mention that. Yes, rechargable battery. I currently have some 700 mA/hr batteries I'm planning on trying out. My previous circuit board had a flaw, so I wasn't able to test it. I just got new PCBs, so have to assemble some this weekend. If you look at the photos for the first and second prototype, you can see a USB connector on the bottom. This is for charging the batter. Software updates will be over the air.

I'll create a video showing the current experience with using a web browser to setup the throttle. Any device that has Wi-Fi and a browser can be used to configure the throttle. And the connection is required only when you want to make changes, such as connecting to a different JMRI instance. With version 2, you can change engines using the keypad.

DrJoIS, I'm always amazed at how cheap Chinese companies can make products. I think their price is a combination of very high volume, access to really cheap clone chips, very low labor costs, and very thin profit margins. There is no way we'll be able to sell a throttle for anywhere close to $22 as our volume will be miniscule compared to their volume.

Today I'm going to work on getting my JMRI system back running again, and then I'll create a video demonstrating how it works. But based on feedback so far, I may put the version with a screen on the back burner for now, and finish the keypad-only version.

Yay!

You've got my interest. I don't figure every operator will get a proto-throttle, so I prefer something inexpensive and simple (big knob and nice reverse switch) for everyone else.

Bring it on.

Operator Throttle

I really like the first version.  It's so simple no visitor would accidentally get things messed up!  Some function key buttons would be great, but the simple forward/reverse/throttle would keep the cost per-throttle down and help keep operator error to a minimum.

Thanks for the work on this!

- murf

no buttons?

how do you blow the horn or ring the bells without them? .......DaveB

Maybe put the display at the top?

If you locate the LCD display at the top of the throttle it would not be blocked by the operators hand when using the throttle.

Simple is good

Good one

I'm all for a big knob and a switch.

However the design could allow for other preferences such as centre off and push button control speed control versions

A universal radio throttle that can connect via a common interface to layouts running any version of DCC must be a holy grail. Means no learning a new throttle at each layout ( be it home or club) and the host not having to supply radio throttles for all and sundry.

Wish you well with the project.

cheers

 Bob

All versions are designed to

I can see myself fat fingering lots of buttons with that tiny throttle. That is the one thing I dislike about the cell phone things they are very small. A lot of folks can use them quite well, I have issues with them frequently. I do like the knob on the top though that is a nice touch. As additional low cost throttles this should be quite a deal for someone wanting more for his layout. The universal wifi is also a great idea and should work out very well for lots of folks.

Update on Electronics

Thanks for all the replies. I'll respond to them in the next post. I made some nice progress today on the electronics. I built version 2 of the circuit board:

Version 1 had a few mistakes, so I hadn't been able to test the charger, or put it in an actual throttle. In this version the charger is working great. But, it wouldn't program. Hmmm. After a while with a VOM, I discovered one of the pins from the programmer header wasn't connected. Woops. Fortunately, that was relatively easy to fix with a wire, as shown here:

The next step is to attach the keypad, knob, and direction switch and put it into a case. I hope I'll have time to do that tomorrow.

Replies to Comments

Thanks to everyone who replied. I'm actually surprised so many people are interested in the throttle without the screen. That's good because I have that functionality working, and probably need only a couple of features before continuing on. But I could have done that a year ago--darn. I'm currently thinking I'll create two versions of the throttle--a "basic" version that has the keypad, but no screen. And an "intermediate" version that has the screen. I'll focus on getting the basic version done and shipping first.

Moe line, having a "JMRI" throttle along the lines of the UT4 has been my goal all along. That's a great road throttle, and easy for any operator to pick up. Of course, it only works on Digitrax systems, whereas my throttle works with JMRI, so you can use Digitrax, NCE, Lenz, etc. with my throttle. That means you can have your own throttle and take it to any layout that uses JMRI.

murf, I've heard that a lot. The keypad allows selecting a new engine. However, I plan to allow disabling this feature so you can hand someone one of these throttles an they'll only have control of the speed, direction, and functions. I will definitely support 10 functions, and most likely 20 (with a shift). Without the screen, I might need an LED or two to indicate mode.

J. Kluth, my thinking about having the speed knob above the screen was to put the emphasis on one-handed operations. So you can control the speed and direction with one hand. But, I have some other ideas about location of the toggle switch that would allow me to move the screen to the top. However, as I mentioned above, I'm going to finish the version without the screen first. Also, the idea of the LCD screen is to change options or select another engine. I don't think you really need it when you're running an engine (changing speed, direction, and using function keys). So my plan was to have the screen blank much of the time, which also saves on power consumption (and therefore improves battery life). But I'll know more about how well this works once I have the UX finished for the screen version.

Dunks, You'll need to use the phone for the basic version only to connect the throttle to Wi-Fi and JMRI. Also, the throttle will remember the last Wi-Fi and JMRI connection, so it will re-connect automatically. After that you'll be able to select an engine using the keypad. I have this working, and it works quite well. I may want to have an LED to provide feedback when you do this. The version with the screen won't need a phone at all.

I like the idea of forward and reverse instead of left and right. I'll play around with some designs. As to buttons, these 12-key keypads are readily available, and allow engine selection. I was planning on having a way to map each key to the DCC function of your choice. The main difference between this throttle and other throttles out there is that it will work with any DCC system that has JMRI. That means you can take your own throttle to any layout with JMRI. That's something you can't do today with any throttles that have physical knobs (you have to use a cell phone).

​bobcom52​, yes, absolutely. I want to have a switching mode where straight up for the throttle is zero, and rotation away from vertical controls both direction and speed.

Virginian and L...​ Are you suggesting you want larger buttons? My second prototype has larger buttons than the third prototype. What do others think? Do you want the larger buttons?

Virginian and L...​ Are you

Virginian and L...​ Are you suggesting you want larger buttons? My second prototype has larger buttons than the third prototype. What do others think? Do you want the larger buttons?

I have large hands, bigger buttons are always something I look for in a product, with more space between them. This hobby has lots of us older folks in it that do not have real flexible digits so making it easier to use with out fat fingering keys would be a plus.

Knob location

Agree on the buttons...

I have a smart phone that I rarely use, because the buttons, and keypad are way too small... bigger buttons are always better for us old guys (and us guys who abused out hands throughout life)

Larger buttons and

A paddle switch.  I say a paddle switch for 2 reasons.  It is better at showing position than a rocker switch.  Also unlike a toggle it has a definite direction.  It is also easier on the fingers.

http://www.amazon.com%2FToggle-Switches-PADDLE-MOMENTARY-piece%2Fdp%2FB00M2D3V68&psig=AFQjCNHgP2jQjSBFxYTx375uigugjX8PCw&ust=1496663202694370

Dont know what your using for a screen but a small 2 line might work to save space, maybe?

Some suggestions

A few things I did not see mentioned in the thread above or I might have missed them:

- I'd suggest looking at people using NCE ProCabs which have both a rotary wheel and +1/-1 +10/-10 buttons for speed. Some people like to use the wheel and other like me prefer the precision of using the numeric buttons for speed. I'm in the latter camp because I think of speed in term of numbers so I can press the buttons without even looking at the screen and still know what speed I changed it too. With the wheel, I feel like I constantly have to read the screen to see what I've done. DCC momentum means there's no immediate visual feedback of speed change. Note that I'm not saying you should cater to both kind of users. At the contrary. Choose one type, the former, and target appropriately.

- Speaking of NCE ProCabs, one little known feature is the fact that the Options key is by default mapped to the zero-speed function. That means pressing it sets the speed to zero and of course respects the momentum (it's not e-stop). It's a lot more convenient than people who I see frantically turning the wheel to stop their train when they realize they are not going where they want.

- Is your knob working in absolute or relative? NCE's smaller cabs with the knobs can be either way. E.g. either the knob stops at zero and a direction button needs to be used, or the knob has no stop and rotating past zero is what makes it change direction. NCE calls the latter "yard mode" and I never use it. The NCE DCC Twin works like this and it's fairly annoying, one constantly has to be very careful to find that middle zero position and avoid reversing.

- What about one-hand operation? How do you figure the proper knob rolling resistance to allow to make it easy to use one-handed, but at the same time prevent people from mistakenly moving the knob when they pick up the throttle?

- At the club when I put the throttle down in the holders on the side of the aisle, how do I prevent bystanders from moving the wheel? I can see people brushing against the throttle and inadvertently change the speed.

- I don't quite see the need for the phone for initial setup. Or more exactly that seems like a complication when the throttle is designed to make it easier to use. You could offer WPS support to connect to wifi networks without having to enter a password, or if the password is numeric people can use the keypad to enter it. Then once on a wifi network, you can support zero conf to automatically connect to JMRI, without even having to ask for an IP/port combo. Smart phone support would be used only as a last resource.

- Think of multi-place users. I don't know if that's common but I use my throttle in at least 2 clubs, plus at home plus occasionally at some friends. But moving frequently between 3 locations, I'd expect it to remember not just the last one but the most frequently used.

- Layout wise, as others have mentioned, I'd place the display above the knob. In one-hand operation that may make the throttle feel more balanced and easier to read.

- DCC consisting. I guess that would fall in the "advanced" features you'd do on the phone with JMRI?

Good luck in your product.