WIring and gaps for runaround

I need help on how to wire this and where to put the gaps.

My goal is to have a train come in from the right (in the drawing) and position the loco on the lead on the end at the left in the drawing and in the foreground in the photo,

then move the loco onto the runaround,

then move the train with the ole 0-5-0 all the way up to the lead so the loco can get onto the left hand turnout and  head out to the right towards the modules.

http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/28481

DC or DCC?

Hi D,

It matters in terms of keeping one locomotive from moving.

Nick

DC, Nick.

DC, Nick.

Probably No Gaps.

More info please. DC or DCC?  Are the frogs of the turnouts isolated from the rails?

Your passing siding looks barely long enough to hold a loco and keep it clear of both turnouts. Did you consider using, instead of your lefthand turnout, a curved turnout that would fit into the long curved approach track? This might allow for passing siding that will hold loco and a freight car.

DrJolS

DC, DrJo1s. I've considered

DC, DrJo1s. I've considered the curved turnout, but where the curve ends is permanent, as beyond that is just temporary. Eventually the line will continue to the other side of the room where a larger runaround track will be at a terminus. I have no issue moving the train with my hands in order for the loco to get by for now, as the area basically is a staging area. Just wanted to set it up so I wouldn't have to handle the loco often.

Try Again

@  Deemiorgos,

What kind of frogs are in your turnouts? Is there electrical continuity between frog and the rails leading to it?

DrJolS

I think the wye turnout has

I think the wye turnout has an electro frog, as it has a wire the comes out of the side of the turnout and the frog is metal. The left hand turnout has a plastic frog.

I've done this and tested a loco on it and it is working. This works for now as I'm only using 5 car trains on this switching layout.

I soldered the common wire to the loco lead and common wire to only one of the runarounds tracks.

It's Working

If it's working you're close enough.

It should work just as well without the gap in the uppermost rail of your drawing, but no need to change it.

Plastic frog on the LH turnout means that there is a gap between the two inner rails of its branches, which is why it works. If they were electrically touching as in your drawing you would get short circuits. 

If the WYE turnout is electrofrog your two gaps in its inner branching rails are vital. But I think it quite possible that the frog is insulated from those branching rails. The wire you mention is probably attached to the frog, so that if you find poor electrical continuity from the points you can add a Frog Juicer or DPST switch to bring current of proper polarity to the frog for each position of the points. Leave your gaps as they are.

We wouldn't need to guess about the frog if you could use a meter to check continuity between frog and the rails that meet it. But, given that you are using just one loco, it looks like you're all set.

DrJolS

Thank you for your

Thank you for your informative reply, DrJols. I concur in regards to "no need to change it."

Trial and error paid off. Heck, I don't even recall how I got rid of a short I was getting or what gap I put in that cured it. Wiring is not my forte.

Anyhow, here it is in action.

Train comes in from modules:

Train uncouple and moved back by 0-5-0 ; )

Loco goes to runaround track:

0-5-0 brings train up to lead to clear distant turnout for loco:

Loco heads to TT (currently in the making):

While loco is at TT, a new train can be assemble by hand for going to the modules: Stonehammer branch line terminus.

I won't be using the NW2; as soon as I get the ballasting done and some scenery, the steam locos will get unpacked.

"Trial and error paid off.

    The key is to trace the positive and negative rails and see if there is anywhere that they can touch. On a passing siding the only place is at the frogs so they need to be insulated from the rails coming in and going out. They can be just insulated and left dead or they can be insulated then powered with some way to match the frog polarity to the route chosen( frog juicer,tortoise contacts,blue point controller, or simple toggle switch). Generally if the frog gaps are cut close to the frog the engines can run across them without powering the frogs which is the simplest way to start, if the engines stall or loose their sound crossing the frogs then appropriate frog power can be added. I'm planning to put keep alive capacitors in the engines on my new layout and hopefully avoid powering the frogs.......DaveB 

Dave, I'm so out of the loop.

Dave, I'm so out of the loop. Capacitors in engines? Interesting.

Dee, you could avoid having

Dee, you could avoid having to use the "ole 0-5-0" to move the cars passed the engine for the runaround move by having the track slant down grade at the entrance of the run around track and the cars are held back by a simple "hand brake" (piece of of flexible, plastic broom bristle or better yet a model airplane cable up through the ties.) After the locomotive is safely in the clear at the opposite end "release the handbrake" (cable) and the rest of the train coasts by the engine to clear the first switch and allow it to come out the other end. These airplane cables which have a slippery, small tube inside a larger one are inexpensive and work well even if curved to position them and this would add another realistic option to your simple operations to make it hands free.

How do i know it will work? Because I have used this procedure on short, prototype trains when we didn't have enough room to get all the cars to clear for a run around move or all we had was the slight grade and one switch to accomplish the same. Stop the train at the top of the grade, dynamite the air, set hand brakes, put the engine in the clear, bleed off the air in the cars so they will roll by gravity, release the hand brakes and allow the train to roll by the engine controlling the speed and stopping ability by the car's hand brakes. Worked like a charm.  

Just a suggestion.

Keep up the good work...we all looking forward to seeing one of your steam locomotives operating on this neat little module or excellent, example of a TOMA .

Barry

I would never have though of

I would never have though of that, Barry, much appreciated and I will attempt to do so.

I'll look up to see what a model airplane cable is.

Dee, the cable I was talking

Dee, the cable I was talking about is a DU-BRO, #501 Lazer Rod, 48" Flexible Pushrod. As noted this is 4' long but can be cut to any length and it includes a few screw in, studs and screw on clevis. You might also want to purchase some cable fasteners, DU-BRO 3/16" Nylon Landing Gear Straps, to hold it in place at the operational end and operating end. Your total cost should maybe be around $4.-6.  I have used this to control switches by bending one of the studs to 90 degrees, drilling a hole in the benchwork(1/4") tapping (really only a drill hole and then screwing the self tapping stud into the switchrod) a hole in the switch rod for the stud and threading it through the hole and screwing to the switch rod. The opposite end of the cable is placed through a hole in the facia and a simple drawer pull knob screwed onto its end. 

BTW, if want a different attachment at the track end you could also use a Rix products P.T.L Pivoting Turnout Linkage for controlling turnouts from underneath the layout. I am using this simple device along with the pushrods to control a few of my turnouts  place of the threaded stud directly into the switch rod. I like to find simple, inexpensive, ways to control things and these work great and are fun to build. However, if you wanted to go more expensive, you could also use one of the Fast Tracks Bull Frog controls to activate the "hill brake".

Keep in mind for this to work you will need a pretty good grade (1/2-1" high) at the beginning of the runaround to provide gravity to allow the train to coast by the cleared engine. Approaching the run around you stop the train, raise the the stud to catch the first axle of the first car to use as your :hand brake", cut off the engine and put to clear in the runaround track, lower the stud which allows the cars to roll free past the engine and clear of the other switch. Once the cars are clear the engine comes out of the runaround and couples to the train to switch it out or return to Stonehammer.   

I think this might enhance your operation and I am guessing with your nicely, weighted cars they should roll freely.

Just some suggestions for your railroad.

Barry    

Thank you, Barry. So

Thank you, Barry. So informative and I'm inspired.