jeffshultz

The days all start blending into each other - and I'm a little surprised to realize that tomorrow is my last day here.

Today got really busy - I started by thinking that we just be videotaping interviews with a few select companies - I'd personally targeted BLMA, which is practically a tradition now, ExactRail, since Chris Clune was here with Blaine (rhymes with "train") Hadfield and I definitely wanted to talk to them, and Tangent, pretty much just because - they do a good interview and had a couple of new products that I think will be of interest to many modelers.

Well... that list grew throughout the day. I did get the above three interviews, and some others besides.

At NCE I got to talk to Larry Larsen, who showed us the prototype of their "engineer" throttle with a small LCD display. I asked them to simply send a couple along to Joe... I want one for Roseburg Yard. Additionally, he demonstrated a new LED lighting product, usable for areas with low ceilings or lower decks on multi-deck layouts, that allow you to set the exact lighting color and levels you want. Based on something they invented for the bottom deck of the owners layout, it has 4 selectable light level presets as well as a near infinite amount of tweaking possibilities just from fiddling with the knobs. People who have been in theater will probably think the LED light setup looks very familiar from their time on stage. Product availablity is expected to be mid-August 2010, but pricing has not yet been set. One set will cover 6 feet of a shelf-style railroad.

BLMA has announced the new 64" Trinity Reefers in HO and N, which are a very new prototype (the lot being modeled was built in 2005) which they're predicting will be available 2nd Qtr 2011.  Visit the BLMA Website for more information and a video of a trip that Craig took to the Railex Corporation loading facility in California. If the cars seem oddly familiar, it's because they are the same basic car type featured in the Extreme Trains episode that had Matt Bowen on a Reefer train from Washington State to New York. BLMA is also announcing the F89J, which is still in the pipeline for it's first run, will be re-released in the original brown TTX paint scheme they originally wore. A future release will cover the 1970s yellow paint scheme as well.  To answer questions I was asked to ask Craig, yes, there are plans for more figures, I think but am not positive I got a head nod on plans for vehicles, and yes, he tries to keep a regular eye on web forums and mailing lists as part of maintaining an awareness not only of how BLMA is doing in the customer's eyes, but also to gauge customer desires for new products. So keep the wish lists rolling - he's watching them.

ExactRail was not as much a product interview as it was a "who are you guys?" type of interview. I mean, both Chris and Blaine both look like they should still be in college (Chris is actually in his 30s, I didn't ask how old Blaine was), but they appear to have a solid business plan and sure seem to be executing it well.... and Chris has actually been in this industry since about age 16. I tried a new technique with this interview, to come up with the questions in advance and deliver them to the interviewees for them to look over and think up answers to ahead of time. This would avoid both the possible "deer in the headlights look" that I might get from a "what did he ask me?" question, as well as not only avoiding "gotcha" questions that they would object to, but also help me avoid the "what am  going to ask them next while I try to process what he's saying now" syndrome. I love the interviews, but occasionally I do wonder what the heck I'm doing in front of a camera.... usually when I'm in the middle of one. Anyway, it worked out fairly well for a first attempt - good questions, good answers, with the only problem being that I found myself referring to the questions on the sheet of paper in my hand too often - so in the middle of the second half of the interview with Blaine, we went off script and winged the rest of it. I also asked about Blaine's monitoring of the forums and lists and it sounds like he has a regular group of them that he goes through on a regular basis, to basically keep up what I would call situational awareness of what is going on in the model railroading community as well as to see what their desires are. They consider it to be part of their customer focus at ExactRail. Oh - listen closely to Blaine at the end of this interview as he lists their accomplisments over the first year of ExactRail - the sheer numbers are very impressive.

Tangent... please give it up to the guys at Tangent Scale Models who dealt with me having a major coughing attack in the middle of the interview.  Tangent announced the release of their 4th product here at the National Train Show - a standard Bethlehem Steel design open quad-hopper, as seen in coal service all over the west and mid-west. Including interior detail as well as coupler cover detail on the rotary end (no, they aren't actually rotary couplers), the cars weights are completely hidden from view, but the car is weighted to NMRA standards even empty (it comes with a removable coal load), so that DPU's can be used safely with them. This car is going to have a lot of road numbers in it's first release. They've also got new roadnames in their 70ton gondola line, with paint jobs approved by both the Penn Central and Pennsy Historical Societies. Like BLMA and ExactRail, they also keep an eye on the forums and mailing lists in order to help them provide products that are not only good, but are wanted by their customers.

On the way to the Tangent interview, we stopped at Imagine That Laser Art Products (warning, link launches sound automatically) booth simply because I insisted that the incredible laser cut wood structures they create demanded documenting. While Charlie Comstock was taping, Mike, the owner of Imagine That, and I got into a conversation about some of the things we were looking at. At that point Charlie stopped filming and said that we might as well turn this into an interview, which Mike agreed to. Mike went over several of their products features and some specifics on construction methods that I asked him about, and then he introduced us to "La Wow"  (Le Wow?) an S-Scale hotel building with curved/spiral staircases (in wood) as well as simply an amazing amount of detail in all the siding, trim and accessory pieces (like patio restaurant tables). Oh, and because it was created at the same time as the recent earthquake in Quebec... it has earthquake damage on the back of it. Absolutely wild. And yes - he's going to be doing it in HO as well.

While wandering around the show waiting to do a scheduled interview, we also stopped by two layouts - a segmented (modular isn't really an accurate term for this layout) layout from a Cincinnati, OH based group which took first place in the train show this year. One of the unique aspects of this layout is that other than the yard on one side there really isn't a straight piece of track on the layout - it's all done in curves, although some of them are very gentle. Everything is aligned and supported well enough that they don't even need connector tracks between the segments - they simply line them up and the track ends are aligned and ready to handle trains.

Another layout, but Modu-Trak (I believe that was their name), was an N Scale non-N-Trak layout that seems to believe in the concept that less is more. Except in long trains - there, more is more... something N Scale excels at. Most of the scenery is understated but first rate - rolling hills along the right-of-way, static grass fields, a restrained downtown and industrial area. And they all blended from one to another. Compared to some modular layouts (in many scales) I've seen in the past where the goal seems to be to stuff as much detail and activity into every inch, this layout is positively pastoral.

Okay, I was asked by some people through various means for a few specific product clarifications and photographs from the train show - first of all, to the person questioning whether or not the new Bachmann HO scale Baldwin Modern 4-4-0 American was priced at $435, the answer is yes. For the sound version. It's $300 for the non-sound version. It's a nice looking model, by the way - we did a click 'n spin on it. Why is it that expensive? According to Lee Riley, it comes down to increasingly expensive materials, stringent product safety and environmental safety requirements (he refered me to ROHS) as well as a lot of new benefits kicking in for the Chinese workers.

 Photograph time - first up, the Walthers Trinity 6351cu ft covered hopper:

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Okay, we're going to be playing "Name that flatcar" I think - it's an Athearn product:

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Atlas Coil Car:

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Atlas Well Cars (rememeber, this is only the plastic - they're going to get covered in metal etchings):

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Here's Rob from Atlas talking to "Loco Lee" - a man who can make a QSI decoder stand up and sing symphonies. He's also a man who can state, from experience, that when you are recording sound from a GE exhaust that is larger than you are, make sure they blue flag the train so you don't suddenly find yourself stumbling towards the exhaust when they add a couple of cars to the train.....

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And finally, a little video for your amusement (it's still processing, but I'm going to bed):

Last note - the NMRA Banquet was tonight. Quite a few hundred people attending. We've been all over this hotel all week.

And I think I was the only person who noticed this:

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Ah well. It amused the  people I pointed it out to.

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Jeff Shultz - MRH Technical Assistant
DCC Features Matrix/My blog index
Modeling a fictional GWI shortline combining three separate areas into one freelance-ish railroad.

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Wolfgang

MN

What are the definitions you've heard about this "MNRA" ?

Minnesota railroad associatlion?

Wolfgang

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kleaverjr

Question on new NCE Throttle

What does the LCD display display???? Does it give back all the feedback the LCD display of the ProCab's do? 

Ken L.

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bn7026

New NCE Throttle

 Actually it's a LED display - 4 digits only - that's what all the shots that I have seen show (correct me if i'm wrong Jeff)- think of a  Cab04 with a 4 digit display.  It's an engineer's cab rather than a full procab - I don;t know much more about the funtionality of the cab (i'm pretty sure it doesn't display the speed settings - just the loco address).

You won't be able to consist or program with this cab though I understand you can use accessories without having to setup macros.

I'm very interested in their lighting setup that Jeff mentions - depending on the price it could be a winner for those like myself who build 'shadowbox' type layouts.

Tim S

Perth, Australia

 Tim Shenton
Perth, Western Australia
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jeffshultz

NCE Throttle & such

Tim,

I think it was displaying more characters than that, but you may be correct about the type of display. It is essentially the upgrade to a Cab04.

The popular de-acronymizing of MNRA at our table was "Minnesota National Rifle Association."

 

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Jeff Shultz - MRH Technical Assistant
DCC Features Matrix/My blog index
Modeling a fictional GWI shortline combining three separate areas into one freelance-ish railroad.

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westovin

NCE LED lighting

Really look forward to more detail on the NCE L:ED lighting system as I am multi layered in my layout.  Any word on their long delayed signalling system?

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bbussey

Where is the N scale coverage?

No N scale news to report or photos to show, other than Walthers continuing to misunderstand the N scale market?

Atlas, Micro-Trains, InterMountain, Bachmann, Athearn, BLMA, Fox Valley, Rapido, Wheels of Time, ExactRail -- all present at the show and all with N scale new product samples on display.  HO may be the most popular scale, but it is far from being the only popular scale.

 

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Dave K skiloff

Not slamming Walthers

Walthers makes some pretty good stuff and are instrumental and have been instrumental in building and expanding the hobby, so I'm not trying to slam them here, but it would seem to me that its backwards logic for them to say to N scalers that they should buy what they have out there now before they'd make any more.  If they have missed the mark on their product release and it wasn't in demand, how is that the fault of the N scalers?  Seems to me that they didn't do their due diligence when they released what they did that they now want N scalers to buy, even though they don't need it, only to do what?  Put out more product that they don't want?  As others have said, Atlas, Micro Trains, Intermountain, Bachmann, Athearn, BLMA, Rapido, ExactRail, and my favourite, Kato, as well as others have put out N scale products that seem to be selling well.  A little better research might provide them with some insight into what would really sell and they could do quite well in the segment.

Dave
Playing around in HO and N scale since 1976

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feldman718

But Walthers does deserve to be slammed.

Dave,

Why do they deserve to be slammed? For two very basic reasons:

1. The company is no longer run by model railroaders so they have no atttachment to the hobby. They are run by professional business people who only see what they provide in terms of dollars and cents. While its true that one has to be a good business person to survive in any economy, but something more is actually necssary to ensure longterm survival in any industry let alone one that is not an essential for living. That one item is to have intimate knowledge of what motivates the hobbyist in this kind of business. But more about that later.

2. The second necessity aat least as far as I see it, is an attachment to more than one scale  and Walthers never had it even when it was run by model railroaders. It was run by HO scalers and they never saw the need to cater to anyone else and thus for years they only had an HO scale catalogue. In recent years they came out with an N and Z scale catalogue but that was only done since they went into distribution rather than manufacturing.

So how is a distributor different than a manufacturer? Since you aren't making anything but only serving as a middleman in providing a way for manufacturers to reach customers and customers to reach manufacturers, you realy aren't adding anything to the hobby but a cost factor much like the hobbyshop of old.

While this adds something of value it gives the distributor a way of conrolling the market since he or she now is the gatekeeper and therefore the right to say what will or will not be sold and this isn't always for the good of the hobby since the good of the distributor is of primary importance here.

In the case of Walthers one other factor has to be considred and that is why Walthers is bothering with N-Scale altogether. And that has to do with the fact that Walthers acquired Life Like a few years ago. N-Scale wasn't important to them before they acquired Life-Like and I submit that it is still unimportant to them. The only reason they bothered with this scale at all is to get a return on its investment in that portion of Life Like's business. But they really aren't interested in doing anything new since the current managment knows even less about N-SCale than they do about HO-Scale.

Irv

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bbussey

No NMRA Milwaukee N scale coverage by MRH, cont.

Jeff,

You don't even have photos posted or even make mention of Bachmann's 4-6-0 steamer, Peter Witt trolley or 70-Tonner switcher - easily far bigger news than of what Walthers N scale marketing plans are.  The only N scale models in any of your photos of the show are when they are in the background - i.e., the photos of the Atlas coil car.

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feldman718

N-Scale coverage

I have seen more coverage of N-SCale in Scale Rails than ever before recently. But let's face it, the NMRA is primarily an HO Scale dominated organiztion and this is going to be reflected in the press coverage until more N-SCalers get involved in both the organization and the press. N-Scale is a very practical scale despite the complaints that so-called old timers can't see it. I am no spring chicken (I'm 61) but I am not yet ready to call it quites and I am sure that I am not alone in this since you're only as old as you feel. Most of the folks my age got startedin HO (so did I) and haven't looked at anything else since that scale has the most stuff available it this point. So they chose and I won't say they made a mistake since it was obviously tha right choice for them. It wasn't for me since I didn't have the space for HO when I got started and when I did have the space I realized I could do alot more with it in N than in HO. Besides, the fact that I had already made sizeable investment in the scale certainly didn't encourage me to go back to HO.

The only fault I want to point out to MRH is that it needs to expand the coverage of any convention that has littel or no representation of N-Scale to include any possible coverage of it. If we want to promote the scale it needs to be represented despiste the HO-Scale bias that is ingrained in those who do the coverage.

As for the NMRA, if we boycott the organization because of a lack of or little coverage we N-SCalers have only ourselves to blame.

Irv

 

 

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bbussey

Agreed, NMRA is predominently

Agreed, NMRA is predominently HO and has for the most part ignored N scale over the decades, which of course led to N-Trak, NSC, N Scale Mag, N Scale Railroading, and other N-centric organizations to the point where any lack of NMRA attention is no longer a detriment.  At this point 50 years down the road, the NMRA needs N scale more than N scale needs the NMRA.  That said, even though this is an NMRA convention, there are numerous manufacturers featuring N scale related product.  Since MRH purports to cover ALL scales and has stated it would provide coverage of the show, it should do that and report on all of the products being released - not just the ones that the correspondents have a personal preference for.  After all, some of the N scale manufacturers advertise here, so you would think that MRH would show a little love and report on what they are exhibiting.

 

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jeffshultz

Okay okay okay...

Please understand that these reports are largely just a personal blogging of what I did that day. I'm into HO, and I'll admit that my situational awareness of N scale is pretty weak - heck, my situational awareness in S is non-existent, but I did wander over to the S Scale Modeler's booth and they confirmed that there really wasn't anything new out for me to photograph.

So my blogging has been largely limited to two things - my interests and experiences and going out and hunting down the answers for questions I've been asked.

....and bbussey, you asked a question.  Actually over the past couple days I've hauled most of the Bachmann N Scale products over (missed the Geep and Trinity Covered Hopper) for Click N Spin photos, also had one done of the BLMA 3-unit spine car (the 5-unit was too long to photograph well - depth of field issues), and today I went out and actively hunted down a bunch of N scale equipment to photograph.

Since it's 5pm now and I'll be in this airport for at least the next hour.... time for me to work on my next post of today's activities. I think you'll be pleased.

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Jeff Shultz - MRH Technical Assistant
DCC Features Matrix/My blog index
Modeling a fictional GWI shortline combining three separate areas into one freelance-ish railroad.

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asarge

You did fine Jeff. We N

You did fine Jeff. We N scalers couldn't even get N scalers to post what they heard from the manufacturer's either.

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bkempins

Not all N scalers are whiners

Jeff, Thanks for your reports. I enjoyed them.

Bernard Kempinski


 
Personal Layout Blog: http://usmrr.blogspot.com/
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Cuyama

Walthers N scale criticism puzzling

Bernie, maybe there's just a difference of perspective between people actually modeling in N scale and those whining about it on forums.

I've been designing N scale layouts recently incorporating literally dozens of different structure models from Walthers, as well as starting the construction of a couple of kits for my own layout.

Would I like to see more? Sure, especially of buildings from the western US. But the kits Walthers offers now fill a huge need in the N scale market, either as-is or as kitbashing fodder.

The "victim mentality" of many N scalers serves no one, IMHO.

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Dave K skiloff

Was going to mention that, Byron

I'll be using at least six different buildings on my little chainsaw and all six of them are Walthers kits.  They aren't all "exactly" what I need, but they do in a pinch and will provide me an opportunity to try out kitbashing.  And I honestly never thought about Jeff's reports being slanted to HO or otherwise.  He's running around with a camera trying to take in as much as he can and has done a masterful job of making these posts when he'd probably much rather be getting some sleep.

Dave
Playing around in HO and N scale since 1976

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jeffshultz

Walthers and pricing and whatnot...

Eric,

It's interesting that you should bring up Walther's pricing for N Scale structures, because their prices (I tend to quiver when asked to pay> $50 for a box of unassembled plastic pieces) for the new Ethanol Series structures created a similar reaction in me.

As for what I'd like to see, and try to point out when I can - the entire industrial world is not built out of bricks. But you'd be hard pressed to prove that based on the kits you can get.

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Jeff Shultz - MRH Technical Assistant
DCC Features Matrix/My blog index
Modeling a fictional GWI shortline combining three separate areas into one freelance-ish railroad.

Reply 0
ChrisNH

LOL

LOL..

Minority Scale Syndrome.

Chris

 

“If you carry your childhood with you, you never become older.”           My modest progress Blog

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jeffshultz

Not minority scale syndrome

... little or small scale syndrome.

Seriously, I've got a ton of N scale photos to put up (or direct you to), I just need to make the time. And during my day job is not the time....

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Jeff Shultz - MRH Technical Assistant
DCC Features Matrix/My blog index
Modeling a fictional GWI shortline combining three separate areas into one freelance-ish railroad.

Reply 0
bear creek

Getting a "new" model built...

OK, this isn't an N centric question but I thinkt the answer applies anyway.

I'm an espee kinda guy. So when I met Lee Rilely for the 2nd time (the first being while riding the Heber Creeper steam train in Salt Lake City 12 years ago) I asked what the chances were for models of the SP F3 or F5 2-10-2 locos.

Lee simply said "there aren't any".  Tooling would cost $600,000 for one of these models.

That's substantially more than half a mega buck and enough to pay off my mortagage, finish my layout, and have a major chunk of happily ever after.

So what's all this go to do with plastic N scale structure kits? 

How much do the dies cost to make a new injection molded plastic structure kit?  I'd expect it wouldn't be as much as a complicated steam locomotive. But, if the building has much in the way of detail it's probably not a whole lot less...

Lets guess around $250,000 for the tooling. That cost has to amortised across the production run.

Like it or not, N scale is a minority scale. It doesn't have anything to do with the merits of N scale versus other scales. It does have a lot to do with the number of modelers building N scale layouts versus the modelers building in other scales.

HO has more stuff available because there are a LOT more modelers in that scale (by close to 5 to 1 over N I believe) than in any other scale.

So you're the vice president in charge of new products. You have a budget of $NNNN for the coming year. Your bosses, the CEO and executive vice president are hoping to earn enough money to at least keep XYZ Co. solvent and preferably to make it grow. The tooling costs for an HO model aren't much higher than an N model, but the market for HO is perhaps 3 to 6 times larger.

Where to you choose to spend your limited new product development $$$?

OK, it's a bit more complex (actually a lot more complex) decision than that.  Another large factor to consider is the number of other players in the various target markets. If HO is 5X the size of N (just to throw out a number), but there are 8X the number of vendors, manufacturers, and products in HO that there are in N, suddenly the minority market looks a bit more attractive (if it didn't, no one other than a hobbyist business doing product development just because they like to do product developement, would ever make any products for a scale other than HO!).

So does all this make make a company that make predomnantly HO scale stuff, evil, wicked, short sighted, narrow minded, stupid, and/or crass?  I don't think so. A company that doesn't have a decent profit margin or have a path to achieve a decent profit margin won't be in business for long.

So for all of you N scalers who think that a certain large hobby company is stupid, short sighted, or just plain greedy or wicked, there are two ways to show that to be the truth.

1) buy lots of N scale stuff, especially injection molded model components showing how profitable N scale has become

2) get your buddies together, mortgage your homes, analyze the marketplace, make your own tooling, package your own kits, and do your own marketing, distribution, and sales. If you get good answers to all of these you might even earn enough $$$ to do it again. If enough startup companies in N scale become successful, I can assure you that there will be a mad rush by all the other manufacturers to get into that market validating your decision.

But until you've walked in their shoes, and been faced with making their decisions, perhaps impassioned rhetoric about short-sightedness and unfairness is just that - rhetoric.

FWIW. I'll be posting some video and photos of the ModuTrak N scale later later this week!

Charlie

 

 

 

Superintendent of nearly everything  ayco_hdr.jpg 

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