Preparation

Last year most of my plants were grown in pots and planters. This season I will use two 3x10 ft raised beds initially with a third bed added later in the season. And also plenty in pots. For soil I will be mixing compost with my regular yard soil. I set aside a lot of old compost and also set up 3 bins last summer so I think I will have enough. I will not be using any peat moss or potting soil as last years experiments made me think they were adding too much acidity to the soil. And potting soil retains too much moisture.  Also I will only be using organic nutrients and soil supplements.

Commercial fertilizers can also add acidity and according to what I was able to find out they prefer a slightly alkaline soil. I will continue to experiment with fish fertilizer but Miracle Grow does not agree with these plants. I lost a whole batch last season due to it. (Edit 3-22, I don't want to defame Miracle Grow, I think it adds either salt or a slight acid to the soils. My soil might have been so poor that a tiny bit more acidic pushed the plants over the edge. I use Miracle Grow on my flowers and vegetables and it works just fine.) Initially the raised beds will be covered with clear plastic. Mainly to keep out the spring rains which can keep the soil very wet for weeks. My experiment with plants exposed to these rains showed surprising adaptability as they did survive. They were is raised mounds so even though they were exposed to heavy rain, the soil would drain quickly.

There was a marked difference in size between plants on the deck and those in the greenhouse. The greenhouse was warmer and kept out the wind and maybe the temperature didn't fluctuate so much. I think another contributing factor and likely the main one is the greenhouse got maybe another hour or more of the direct sunlight.

Plants that were started in pots filled with compost and a little organics mixed in and grown in the greenhouse were most of my best plants as far as size and quantity of HO scale trees. The plants survived temperatures from the 40's on the deck to 115 degrees in the greenhouse. Everything that was planted late, from maybe July onward bolted early due to the heat. They grew about 3-4 inches tall and bolted. But at that size they were perfect for N scale or for planting in the background areas to create a forced depth perspective.

I will keep better records this season and a photographic record also. I plan to do my first plantings sometime later this month and just like last season, keep planting batches throughout the season.

And of course I am reading last years blog to make sure I didn't forget something.

http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/25610

The smaller stuff works very

The smaller stuff works very well for a tree canopy like you get if you model West Virginia

-Doug M

Wow Steve

I sat out planting anything last year to see what happened with your experiment. I must say...you were very thorough in you reporting what worked and what did not. Reading through all 22 pages is interesting. So this year, I am going to try your suggestions in some pots on my deck. BIG pots...36" in diameter. So I will join in with you and see what I can come up with in trees. Going to order my seeds now. It did look like your plants also produced seeds ???? I was trying to figure out if they actually worked or not. I do remember saying that you had about a 10% growth rate...was that on those seeds ?

Michael

wow

I also used some large pots and after the plants were removed I did some checking and the center of the pots was damp and actually smelled a bit. The plants in the large pots did great for awhile until they stopped growing and went red. The final plants were more O scale bushes than ho scale trees. My best plants came from pots and planters in the 2 gallon and smaller range. Not certain size was the difference. The large pots had a lot of potting soil and they just didn't shed water very well. The smaller ones had a large percentage of old compost or 100% compost.

And another note, some of the better plants were in planters where they were intentionally overcrowded. They ended up a little taller as they were fighting each other for the light. I will do both this season, overcrowd some and plant others with several inches between plants.

I think soil drainage is one of the more important issues. If the soil is always wet, the plants don't do so well. 

I collected seeds from the drying racks. Thousands of them. A plant only 3 inches tall will still bolt and produce seeds. I took some seeds the same day they fell off the drying plants and threw them in the garden. They germinated just fine. The germination rate for these is high. The survival rate was low due to all my experiments and learning as I went. I planted hundreds of plants over the season so even with killing a bunch of them with peat moss and potting soil and acidic fertilizer, I still had a whole bunch that survived.

The JL hudson seed company sells them by the gram and I think a gram is more seeds than you can plant.

The soil has to drain quickly. All the stuff we use to retain water in the soil for flowers and veggies is a no no. It also has to have nutrients. I use organics.

My plan is to start my plants early and get them adjusted to the outside as quickly as possible. I want them to grow strong roots and lots of leaves before they bolt. Once they bolt and things start going from green to red, they are just about done growing and need to be harvested soon after that.

My keys this season

fast draining soil, (mostly compost) neutral to slightly alkaline soil PH, nutrients from organics mixed into the soil, Alaska fish fertilizer, (small doses.) Not necessary if soil is decent quality. As much sun exposure as possible.

As the compost goes, I am not sure about the compost you buy at the store. Who knows what is in it? My compost was very old, 10 years plus and it was made from grass and yard clippings. And I always took care not to use clippings that may have had weed killer applied.

Central Asia

http://www.umweltbundesamt.de/sites/default/files/deskstudy_biosphere_reserve_issyk-kul_potential_expansion_bf.pdf

The above file is a little helpful in understanding where Teloxys grows wild. I think the first mention and soil type is on page 30. Late last season I purchased a bag of calium carbonate and a bag of gypsum. Just because I am trying to duplicate the wild conditions. I have heard it is grown commercially in northern Europe but I have no details on where and how our trees are grown for Scenic Express. There are many rumors out there so they all come with a grain of salt.

This plant really is a noxious weed. It is banned in some countries in any form. In my own experience, under good conditions it can germinate, grow, bolt, and spread its seeds in just weeks. At only 3 inches tall a plant can drop dozens of seeds. It is a problem in croplands. Sort of like dandy lions in my yard. But maybe worse.

And I need to start this blog with a word of caution. If you are growing this in order to save money populating your railroad with trees, stop reading and just buy a box from Scenic Express and forget you ever has that idea. Grow it because its a challenge. It grows naturally in colder, dry climates with lots of sun. Seattle is all over the map weather wise but too warm in the summer and too cloudy in the spring. And too wet all the time.

Organics

I will be adding organics to all of my soil mixes. What is meant by that term is the following soil additives.

Calcium Carbonate...(Limestone), Gypsum. Rock Phosphate, Bone Meal, Blood meal or equivalent, Kelp meal, Powdered rock flours.. ( crushed mineral silt).

I may have a few other items out there but all I am doing is putting all the potentially needed nutrients in the soil. The limestone and gypsum is to lower the PH and more duplicate the natural habitat. We will see how this works out. As far as Quantities of each ingredient its mostly small amounts in planters. For the beds I follow the instructions on the bag and do the math for 30 square foot beds.

First batch of seeds for this season

I put up 5 trays tonight. 3 of them have the last of the bio pots and 2 of them I just made rows and put in a bunch of seeds.

The 3 with bio pots are a mix of the last of the seedling soil left over from last year along with a little sand and organics. The other 2 are old compost and organics. The compost mix is maybe more just dirt than compost.

There is no use of peat moss or potting soil except the seedling soil is likely mostly peat. Adding the sand makes it pretty loose and I had success with it last season.

My plan is to put these in the greenhouse as soon as they germinate. A couple of the trays may get placed in the greenhouse sooner. I am watching the long range forecast and its going to be below 60 and down to just above freezing. And eventually they will all be transplanted either to the beds or to containers. I was very sloppy in putting in the seeds. But I have a couple extra so I can cull as necessary.

It is time consuming to pick individual seeds with an eye dropper. The rest of the season I may get lazy and just toss the seeds in the dirt in planters and especially the raised beds. Last season I put seeds I collected from my own plants in the dirt and they grew just fine other than the heat wave. So these seeds can fall off of a growing plant and germinate within just a few days.

Last season some of my best plants were planted directly into the pots around the end of May. They were in the greenhouse. So I am a few months early but my first plantings were in early April. So I am about a month early on those but now I have the greenhouse which gets better day time light and should keep the temps above freezing. Even though I don't think freezing temps would bother these.

The plan is to get really strong plants with deep roots and lots of stored energy before they bolt. And hopefully they will become much better quality and quantity of trees.

All of the seedling soils were pretty dry from sitting all winter in the garage. I made a mix of 1 teaspoon Alaska fish fertilizer per gallon of water to make it all damp enough for germination. 

OOPS

I think I made things a little too damp. This morning all the trays had fungus in them. I used a paint brush to wipe it off. Maybe moved a few seeds around also. I had this issue last year one time.  When it gets too wet and too warm, it is going to grow. If it covers the entire tray, it can mess up the seedlings. I put a fan on the trays and took all the lids off so they can dry out a little.

Oops update

The white fungus covering the soil in all the trays was my fault. They were too damp and too warm and I left the lids on too long. Also after reading a bit it looks like I may have given the soil too much nitrogen to start by adding fish fertilizer and organics before they ever sprouted. So the entire lot will be tilled into the garden and a new planting started. I sprayed the whole lot with a hydrogen peroxide solution to kill the visible fungus but its always there. The spores are airborne, soil borne. I will set them all up again and see if I can do a better job this time.

Teloxys is very susceptible to damping off disease. And last season when I had that white fungus, only a small percentage germinated. No big deal, try again.

Smoke bush?

Your sea foam trees are fantastic.  I did some on-line research about availability in the US.  One guy suggested

smoke bush.  From the photos, they look very much alike.  Have you or anyone else made trees out of smoke bush?  Are any colors easier to dye or paint?

Jim

smoke bush

I never heard of it but did a search of images. Looks like something that needs some research.

As far as dying and painting, with the sea foam, spray paint works and then add foilage using the leaf products from Scenic Express or Selkirk.

Some helpful ideas for trees

This link shows how to make trees from some common garden shrubbery. I think I would ask first before trimming the neighbors Hydrangeas. The smoke bush is near the end of the thread.

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/158-diecast-customizing-dioramas/398497-how-make-model-trees-your-1-64th-display.html

Oops update again

  The second try seems to be fine. Its been 30 hours since planting and I can see several seedlings coming up. The temperature in the room they are in is a constant 70 or so. Its another reason Teloxys is such a noxious weed in croplands. Fast germination and they can bolt to seed in just a few weeks. And they can drop seeds and those seeds will also germinate in just a couple days. It was low 50's outside and sunny yesterday. The greenhouse was 100 degrees with the door and vents closed. Most of the seedlings will be moved out there very soon. Night time lows in the 30's and day temps up to the 70's if I keep the vents and door open.

Lots of seedlings

In the latest batch, I used up the last of the Canadian seeds. There were not many to start with. And the rest were seeds I collected from my own plants. The Canadian seeds so far have only a very few germinated. My own seeds are all germinating. I will wait several more days to be sure. Some seeds take 10 days or more to germinate. Seeds do have a shelf life. There are ways to extend that by controlling moisture and freezing them. Vegetable seeds typically last 2-5 years. I assume its the same with Teloxys. As they age, the germination rate diminishes. I have already moved three trays of seedlings to the greenhouse. They barely have leaves but its another experiment. Its going to be wet and cloudy a whole lot more than sunny. And usually cold. We will see how they adjust. I will add pictures to this post later.

In the last picture you can see lots of empty areas. One single seedling is showing near the bottom. A few others in those trays are not noticeable in the photo. I am suspicious the Canadian seeds which I purchased a year ago may be reaching their life expectancy. Last season they were fine. The other seed supplier I used was Hudson seeds and they seemed fine last year. So the next experiment is some of those compared to the seeds I harvested last season from my own plants. So the lesson from all of this is harvest seeds from your own plants and don't expect them to last more than a few years. I imagine a seed supplier would grow and harvest seeds to turn over their stock. With a plant like Teloxys which likely is not as popular as others, they may not grow it every season.

Day 2

In the above photo, lots of seedling came up. This is day 2. A little concern about how tall they are already. They are looking for the light but there is only clouds most of the day. Too tall and they will fall over. They were put in the greenhouse last night. The sooner they get used to our cold and overcast weather the better. We might get one day of sunshine the rest of the month.

WANTED! Information leading to the discovery of the critter who left footprints in my newly raked and seeded raised bed. Reward will be a can of tuna.

I think the local kitty cats took a stroll or maybe the raccoons. It actually doesn't hurt anything until they start digging. I didn't fence the garden last season. No issues after stuff started growing.

Another experment

Late last season I tried planting in late august to see if Teloxys would grow into the fall. The experiment went south mostly because it stayed hot too long. All the plants grew about 3-5 inches and bolted. I didn't harvest many of them as I already had plenty. So they dropped their seeds in those planters. I dumped all but about a dozen of the planters into the beds. The rest were left in the greenhouse all winter where they completely dried out.

Several days ago I watered them all real heavy. The greenhouse has been an average temp of around 50 and some cold nights. It did reach 100 in there for a few hours and 80 this morning for a few hours. With the door and vents closed it really cooks if the sun shines which is rare. In several of those left over containers I have seedlings. I am pretty sure they are Teloxys seedlings from the seeds the plants dropped last season. They look no more than one or two days old. I will be certain in a day or two.

This plant is a weed. An evil scourge of hapless farmers trying to scrape a living from the land. I bet even locusts don't eat it!

So if these are Teloxys, I may be surprised at where else I find it growing in and around the garden. The raised bed plants went to seed also and it would be reasonable to expect thousands of seeds were dropped. The deal is I had a cover crop of clover on it and just rototilled it all very thoroughly. Any seedlings or seeds got the spin cycle. But chances are a few survived. We will see.

I think a worthwhile experiment will be to plant some seeds in some clean soil and immediately put it in the greenhouse to see what the germination time is in colder temps. As little as 30 hours indoors at 70. We will see what it is at 50 with nights in the 40's. 

The seedlings that germinated indoors and were put in the greenhouse on day 2 are all doing fine. The cold shock didn't seem to affect them. The Gobi desert is warm in the day and freezes at night. These plants are likely very change tolerant.

Experiments

So far the germination experiment is not showing. I thought it might take longer in colder temps. The other experiment with containers that had plants dropping seeds last season is mixed. A couple containers have a whole lot of Teloxys growing. One longer container may have many dozens. And a few have just one or two or none. They are mixed soil types and so several more days will tell more. It has been mostly overcast with rain and highs in the 50's. Only a couple degrees warmer in the greenhouse unless the sun shines. I will see if they show up in pictures.

I am sure I could drop seeds in a covered bed already and they would grow. What we don't know is how the plants turn out starting this early and with mostly overcast conditions as far as the forecast sees. We will see.

Update, the Canadian seeds that seemed dormant are starting to show. Not a lot but a few more have germinated. No idea why they are taking so much longer to germinate.

Update on experiments.

In our cold overcast days with highs barely 50 degrees, the Teloxys started germinating at about 7 days. I expect more in the test batch will germinate over the coming days.

So germination indoors at 70 is a low as 30 hours. Outdoors at 50 or less, 7- unknown days.

The following picks are the experiment with the seeds dropped from last years plants in these containers. I have over a dozen of them. A few have a whole lot of plants. Others have just a couple and several have none.

One thing I noticed last year and is happening again is the plants germinated outdoors have shorter stems than those planted indoors. Shorter seems better. Less likely to keel over under their own weight.

There is a whole lot of seedlings in those three planters. I will leave them alone for awhile until I start experimenting with transplanting to a raised bed. I already have hundreds of seedlings so some losses won't be a big deal. I suspect these might be pretty hardy even after beating them up a bit. Like dandelions, mow them, poison them, chop them, they just come back.

The Teloxys plants that dropped these seeds were planted in August last season and never got taller than 3-5 inches. It was a failed experiment to grow this in the fall. I may have started them too early. They all bolted quickly. The stalks were removed long after they dropped their seeds. The containers were stored in the greenhouse where they dried out until I watered them a few weeks ago.

Have you determined...

...what is the best "soil mixture" to use to grow this, or are you still experimenting with different soils, i can't tell so far from the posts?

Thanks.

Ken L.

Soil mix

I am using my own compost from yard waste and mixed with regular yard dirt. I mixed that into the beds and will grow it there this season. It drains very fast. I have added calcium carbonate and gypsum along with some organics.

Fast draining is the most important. Last season the better plants grew in old compost, or old compost and dirt. or very old potting soil. I will not use any peat moss or new potting soil this time around. The peat holds moisture and adds acidity. In the very old potting soil, all the fine particles are gone and so it drains better.

The old potting soil was okay in shallow containers. Less than about 6 inches. In the larger containers there was always too much moisture.

I will experiment with steer gro. It is 50/50 cow dung and sawdust composted.  It might not drain real well though. We will see. I have some for the garden so no big deal to fill a few containers and see what happens.

One of the experiments I did last season was transplanting plants into an area of just regular dirt. Not even good dirt. The plants withstood storms and torrential rains because they were on top of the furrows and the soil drained quickly. They never got large cause the soil was sparse as far as nutrients. In another experiment I put seeds directly into containers with 100% very old compost. Those did real well. So I am mixing the poor dirt with newer compost about 50/50 in the raised beds. I am pretty sure I will get good plants from that.

I hope this helps.

I

Strange color

In the left over seeds experiment most of the planters have Teloxys growing. One is filled with I haven't a clue and it might be from something else that was in there last season. And one that I am certain is Teloxys I have a pink plant. I have seen pink and red stalks and the leaves are sometimes red for a day or two. This one is an odd ball. There is only a couple others growing in this container so it was slated to be dumped but now I can't. Always want to see what happens to plants that are just different. Two pics of the same plant. It is exactly the same size and shape of the Teloxys in this planter Pretty sure is will change color.

My greenhouse and garden area is taking shape. The beds covered with tarps will be both planted with Teloxys. I will transplant most of what is in the greenhouse in one, and direct seed the other with last seasons seeds. Its been too wet to do a lot. I need to bend some pipe and cover those beds. Then no worries about the monsoon rains we get every spring.

Results

The pink plant did not survive the first sunny day. Out doors in our 50 degree weather it looks like the seeds begin germinating around 7 days. But some of them are taking much longer. Patience.

Update with pics, and oops again?

I finally finished to raised beds for Teloxys. Both have covers to protect the plants from getting too wet. I will try some in other beds totally exposed to the elements. I am hoping the raised beds will drain fast enough. Most of my beds are a mix of compost and yard soil. It drains well. The strawberry bed is all the used potting soil. It is much wetter but the strawberries like the dampness.

These are ready for some Teloxys transplanting which I will do tomorrow.

The first three pictures are from the last years seed experiment. I have about a dozen containers with the plants growing. These three are just packed!. The experiment was letting the plants bolt and drop their seeds in the containers. The containers sat dry all winter in the greenhouse and were watered starting about a month ago. You can see these plants drop a whole lot of seeds. I have already transplanted some of these to another experiment. I have containers with a mix of 50/50 commercial compost sold by the bag and yard soil. And containers with 100% commercial compost. And one set has calcium carbonate and gypsum added and another set has none added. No other added organics. The seedlings are tiny but being very careful I can manage to not lose very many.

I will be doing a few more soil experiments in containers. I will keep you posted as I get noticeable results. The beds for the teloxys are compost and yard soil. One is old compost, the other is compost made from last seasons discards. ( yard clippings, kitchen junk, etc.) I have reviewed what little I can find on the Steppes soils. My best guess/ understanding is neutral or slightly alkaline soil. I wish I had a botanist handy.

One of the Teloxys beds had about twice the calcium carbonate and gypsum as the other. More experiments.

The last two pictures are an OOPS! Or a what is going on here? The seedlings are only 1/2 to 3/4 inch tall but already have seed/flower pods forming. barely their first set of leaves and seed pods? This is what keeps me really interested in this plant. When I see the seed pods this early it tells me the plants are going to bolt real early and likely they are somehow stressed. The main suspect is the commercial seedling potting mix. The other seedlings in last years mix of soils are all fine and not showing any seed/flower pods yet. But every plant in the commercial mix is showing seed pods.

Its the same brand as I used last season but who knows the variation from year to year ot batch to batch? So we will watch those and even transplant some into the beds but I think they will be Z scale shrubberies. I do have some time for errors and experiments. Last season some of my best plants were not started until around the first of june. So far we have about one sunny day in 10. And lots of rain. I am sure if I had sunny weather and mild temps this would be a lot easier. I lived in San Diego a long time ago. That would be a good climate with the exception when the desert winds blow westerly.

Seattle has a well earned reputation for rain and really depressed people. More like zombies just going through the motions. "Did you see it"? "yeah, it was so weird, a giant yellow orb, and you could feel the heat from it". "It scared me so I ran inside".

bolting epidemic

It looks like I am having a bolting epidemic. Looking closely I am seeing plants in various soils bolt. So the next culprit? The weather? It has been cold and wet and very few days of sunshine. The plants may be stressed just due to lack of sun?

Upon further examination, I think every seedling I have is showing signs of early bolting. The only common denominator for all of them is weather and lack of sunshine. Without sunshine, growth is very slow. And the plants must be thinking like people who live here. "is this rain ever going to stop?"

I did some reading and heat of course causes bolting but so does poor weather. The plants have given up and are putting what they have into making seeds.

So my attempt at getting an early start during the cold wet overcast months is not going to work out so well. I have several hundred seedlings at best guess. I will transplant a few and see what happens but most are going to be dumped in the compost pile and another set of seedlings started in their place.

So now its actually going to be a bit easier. The raised beds are ready for planting so I will just spread seeds and water them. The long term forecast is for regular sunshine about a month from now. So I think I will divide the beds into sections and plant one section a week?